Donkey of the race

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

once again proving that you did not watch the race :down:

Hamilton drove outstanding today and if not called in for a 2nd pit stop would probably be 2nd coming from 11th on the girds. He passed your man Button at the start , made up 5 places and was on a tear all race long. I am not sure what you think "driving well" means, because if a driver can take another pitstop and still close down a 24 second gap to alonso with a real chance of passing them then you certainly don't understand the concept of driving an F1 car.

---

Exactly.

I find it laughable when people try to belittle the opposition even when their less than stellar favorite manages to luck into a win, it must be some kind of exacerbated inferiority complex showing it's ugly head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by F1boat

Matter of opinion, to me Brazil, Oz and Belgium usually produce better races.

---

My point wasn't opinion, just check out for the past years and you will find boring and exciting races on every F1 track. That's a fact, not an opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

Webber. Period
And not their faults really, but both Trulli not being able to start and Kobayashi causing havoc in first lap deserve an honorable mention for me.

As of second round, the Japanese driver takes an early lead as the fool of the season given the rules I wrote at the beginning, having retired from both races with mechanical failures, creating and accident with yellow flags, etc...
http://www.f1fools.com

---

explain to me how kobayashi is a fool when his car breaks down on him. By your analysis then vettel is an even bigger fool right? i detect a hint of distaste in your comments with regard to japanese drivers. why label him as "the japanese driver?" this is not A1GP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woody2goody

Well, not only him, but you're right, in essence it wasn't extremely difficult to pass on the dry track.

---

No kidding? Only one guy manages to stick two passing moves on the very limit of the track while 5 cars follow each other covered by 3 seconds for 10 laps without being able to overtake and you say it isn't extremely difficult?!
Let me know what's your definition for extremely difficult cause I am not sure that we have the same idea about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

explain to me how kobayashi is a fool when his car breaks down on him. By your analysis then vettel is an even bigger fool right? i detect a hint of distaste in your comments with regard to japanese drivers. why label him as "the japanese driver?" this is not A1GP

---

Some people never get the facts before posting they just post based on their stereotypes, which is a huge shame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

He had a great start and was leading Barbie when Fernando decided to destroy his race. Given how Rosberg is rather lackluster in wet conditions I have no doubts MS would have finished ahead of him today if not for Alonso's mistake.

---

that is pretty much how I see it. MSC showed good form this weekend and the conditions were right for him to make a good move. Its a shame we did not get to see him fighting it out with the other guys. Given the circumstances, its actually pretty good to finish with some points

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

No kidding? Only one guy manages to stick two passing moves on the very limit of the track while 5 cars follow each other covered by 3 seconds for 10 laps without being able to overtake and you say it isn't extremely difficult?!
Let me know what's your definition for extremely difficult cause I am not sure that we have the same idea about it.

---

Well Barrichello passed de la Rosa, likewise Schumacher and Alguersuari got past Pedro - i never said it was easy, but let's face it, it was easier than we have seen previously in dry races.

Also there would have been a good chance than Webber would have overtaken Alonso and Hamilton, Rosberg also, as Rosberg almost got Fernando anyway, so Lewis and Mark would have, had they not collided.

Did it occur to you that the 5 cars were very closely matched? Since when in recent memory (i.e. last few years) have we seen a 5 car battle for second position? Anyway, the cars on fresher tyres had a legitimate shot at passing them in the closing laps. In a way, Rosberg did, but it would have been a heck of a scrap without the crash at the end.

Webber was the ...http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Wo...onkey-Cart.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

that is pretty much how I see it. MSC showed good form this weekend and the conditions were right for him to make a good move. Its a shame we did not get to see him fighting it out with the other guys. Given the circumstances, its actually pretty good to finish with some points

---

Exactly, he got SOMETHING out of the weekend, which could have been a lot worse for him. He possibly had some handling trouble after the first lap incident as well, which won't have helped him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

No kidding? Only one guy manages to stick two passing moves on the very limit of the track while 5 cars follow each other covered by 3 seconds for 10 laps without being able to overtake and you say it isn't extremely difficult?!
Let me know what's your definition for extremely difficult cause I am not sure that we have the same idea about it.

---

plus Jaime did more than make it difficult for MSc to pass. some of his maneuvers where borderline. Anyway the next race is 6 days away and I think it will be a tight one.

btw did Vettel get a penalty for his move on Kubica last year?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

btw did Vettel get a penalty for his move on Kubica last year?

---

I believe he did.

A bit alte and a bit expected, but my vote goes for Webber.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

I believe he did.

---

A ten place grid penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

A ten place grid penalty.

---

Thanks for the info Tam. :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

explain to me how kobayashi is a fool when his car breaks down on him. By your analysis then vettel is an even bigger fool right? i detect a hint of distaste in your comments with regard to japanese drivers. why label him as "the japanese driver?" this is not A1GP

---

I'm not analysing anything. I just set a bunch of rules (which you can like or not), and following them some drivers get more "fool points" than others. Quite objective, empirical approach actually. It's all about 1's and 0's. Yes or no.
For me, the donkey of the race is Webber, as it is quite obvious to most of us. I'm only saying that the Japanese driver (he's Japanese, right? maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure...) got more points following those simple rules.

Not a Kobayashi basher here (Kobayasher? :laugh :) . Last year he raced in two GPs and impressed me as much as his results are disappointing me this year. So far, 2 races, constantly behind De la Rosa, and 2 DNFs (althought not his fault, any of them).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

Not a Kobayashi basher here (Kobayasher? :laugh :) . Last year he raced in two GPs and impressed me as much as his results are disappointing me this year. So far, 2 races, constantly behind De la Rosa, and 2 DNFs (althought not his fault, any of them).

---

Then why mention him in this thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

I'm not analysing anything. I just set a bunch of rules (which you can like or not), and following them some drivers get more "fool points" than others. Quite objective, empirical approach actually. It's all about 1's and 0's. Yes or no.
For me, the donkey of the race is Webber, as it is quite obvious to most of us. I'm only saying that the Japanese driver (he's Japanese, right? maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure...) got more points following those simple rules.

Not a Kobayashi basher here (Kobayasher? :laugh :) . Last year he raced in two GPs and impressed me as much as his results are disappointing me this year. So far, 2 races, constantly behind De la Rosa, and 2 DNFs (althought not his fault, any of them).

---

ok accepted, but I still don't understand how mechanical failures make him the #1 fool in your books.

By your set of standards then surely Vettel is a bigger fool

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Then why mention him in this thread?

---

Well, so far you have explicitly talked in this thread about Webber, Massa, Rosberg, Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Schumacher and Kubica and I have no problem with it. I think that's the point in a forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truefan72

ok accepted, but I still don't understand how mechanical failures make him the #1 fool in your books.
By your set of standards then surely Vettel is a bigger fool

---

Why should Vettel be a bigger fool? He didn't cause an accident and he didn't cause a safety car deployment. He just got a broken car and went off. Feel free to take a look at the rules that measure the points given.

BTW, what do you guys think about moderators setting a poll for both the driver and the donkey of the race? Not just for this GP, but on a regular basis. Just an idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

A ten place grid penalty.

---

webber should get the same.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

Well, so far you have explicitly talked in this thread about Webber, Massa, Rosberg, Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Schumacher and Kubica and I have no problem with it. I think that's the point in a forum.

---

You're trying to avoid an answer to the question.
FYI I only did call Webber the donkey of the race for the obvious reasons, so why did you mention Kobayashi as getting a mention as donkey of the race? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

Why should Vettel be a bigger fool? He didn't cause an accident and he didn't cause a safety car deployment. He just got a broken car and went off. Feel free to take a look at the rules that measure the points given.

---

Kobayashi didn't cause an accident either. His wing fell off and got stuck under the car, the fact that he hit 2 others was purely bad luck. Once the front wheels were in the air he had as much control of that car as I did sat on my sofa watching the repeat of the race :laugh: If Kobayashi gets worse marks than Vettel then your marking system has an obvious flaw.

Sorry Ioan, I already answered the question.
Besides, I said Webber is my chosen donkey as well, so we agree.
Any further discussion is irrelevant and stupid.

What I don't get is why everyone is so obsessed with Vettel. What exactly did he do worse than Kobayashi? :rolleyes: The way I see it, both of them just had car problems. Probably the position at the moment of the failures is the key for you here.

On the other hand, probably my point system is wrong, but the rules are the same for everyone. Anyway, it is a purely personal project for fun, so I'm not going to have arguments about it. Obviously, you don't seem to like it, so I won't mention it again. No problems here ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulidor

What I don't get is why everyone is so obsessed with Vettel. What exactly did he do worse than Kobayashi? :rolleyes: The way I see it, both of them just had car problems. Probably the position at the moment of the failures is the key for you here.

On the other hand, probably my point system is wrong, but the rules are the same for everyone. Anyway, it is a purely personal project for fun, so I'm not going to have arguments about it. Obviously, you don't seem to like it, so I won't mention it again. No problems here ;)

---

No one has an issue with Vettel, merely pointing out that Kobayashi did no worse than him. You said that Kamui should have an 'honourable mention' but he was no more a donkey than Schumi losing his nose or Vettel having his accident. Alonso on the other hand very nearly ruined his race by stupidly turning in on Button.

Alright. Agreed. You are right. My mistake.
Besides Kobayashi and Trulli, I should've mentioned Vettel, Glock, di Grassi, Sutil, Senna, Buemi and Hulkenberg as well, for not being able to finish the race, despite not being their fault.
I won't continue discussing about this. It's so futile.

Mark Webber = http://www.spiralpocus.com/wp-conten...8/06/clown.png

I just watched the race and that's all I have to say about that. :angryfire

Webber and Button for ruining others race.

To me the donkeys were McLaren,for bringing Lewis in for an unessesary 2 nd stop.He would have got passed Kubica i believe in the next few laps.They anticipated that the Ferraris,and Renault would come in for tyres,which they did not.So ruined Lewis ,s race

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

Out of interest, who's race did Button ruin?

---

Alonso's I think. Maybe it was racing accident and maybe not. Like Sutil who run into Kubica in Bahrain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

I quoted you and commented with my own opinion on another thread. :)

---

I respect Your opinion but I don't fully agree with it. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ojciec dyrektor

Alonso's I think. Maybe it was racing accident and maybe not. Like Sutil who run into Kubica in Bahrain.

---

All Alonso's fault (or the stupid mirrors that Ferrari have), he turned in when Jenson was well up the inside.

Webber.

Reckless driving but I´m used to it now.

A few moore and he is out by the end of the season.

Webber was just being Webber.....

For me it was Schumie: Right behind Alonso at the restart. Had a race long battle with Alguersuari............ALGUERSUARI????????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woody2goody

And besides, Michael passed both he and de la Rosa near the end, so passing was not ridiculously hard.

---

MS had to actually force the Spaniard of the racing line by making contact..why do you say that passing was not ridiculously hard...??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Webber was just being Webber.....

For me it was Schumie: Right behind Alonso at the restart. Had a race long battle with Alguersuari............ALGUERSUARI????????

---

You got a point no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo

Kobayashi didn't cause an accident either. His wing fell off and got stuck under the car, the fact that he hit 2 others was purely bad luck. Once the front wheels were in the air he had as much control of that car as I did sat on my sofa watching the repeat of the race :laugh: If Kobayashi gets worse marks than Vettel then your marking system has an obvious flaw.

---

if lewis han not slowed down so much mark would not have hit him

lewis was on the radio after the last stop saying that that set of tyres had gone off so how can he now claim that he did not need to make the last stop for tyres
team radio played on bbc coverage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Did you read what I posted? It is almost impossible to pass in normal conditions without the guy in front making a mistake.

Once you get within 1 second of the car in front you lose so much downforce that you can not go through the turns as fast as the car you are trying to overtake, which means that you have no chances down the straights.

---

Stop making excuses for Schumi, his performance was worthy of a donkey by his standards.

Stuck behind a Torro Rosso and having to race wheel to wheel against a Virgin!

It is difficult to pass when you have two cars on similar pace, but Mercedes should not be similar in pace with Torro Rosso.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

And only MS managed to make passes stick when the track was dry, so he's on the right path IMO.

---

Wait a minute - you said there were no passes once the track dried. You can't have it both ways.

As for SchM trying to pass Algueserie, Martin did comment that Algueserie was using his formula Ford tactics to block very successfully. When there is only a thin dry line, passing would involve some very difficult maneuvers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Stop making excuses for Schumi, his performance was worthy of a donkey by his standards.

---

His standards being those of a 3 year retired driver, he is doing great.
If you would have bothered to read a bit before starting the bashing fest you would know what Brawn already said, that the car was damaged more than just the front wing they changed.

Now, go ahead and troll some more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

if lewis han not slowed down so much mark would not have hit him

lewis was on the radio after the last stop saying that that set of tyres had gone off so how can he now claim that he did not need to make the last stop for tyres
team radio played on bbc coverage

---

Lewis was slow because of the aero, not dodgy tyres as he thought. Tyres don't just drop 1.5secs of pace in 2 laps :) Even if it was the tyres then Jenson proved that you could drive through the graining phase and the tyres would come back to him. Brundle made that all fairly clear in the commentary

And Mark hit him when he was braking for a corner, Lewis couldn't have been any faster because Fernando was on the piece of tarmac in front of him. This isn't just another load of British fan defending British driver, it was fairly obvious that Webber was going too fast because he thought he might be able to follow LH through.