If McLaren had done the same as Renault, would the outcome have been the same? Time for a change at the top of the FIA? (See my article: http://formula-1.suite101.com/articl..._suspended_ban)
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If McLaren had done the same as Renault, would the outcome have been the same? Time for a change at the top of the FIA? (See my article: http://formula-1.suite101.com/articl..._suspended_ban)
Please don't advertise your site. It is forbidden on this forum....Quote:
Originally Posted by John Glimmerveen
There are too many if's and but's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
If it was raised by Piquet Snr in Brazil last year but not officially by Jr then Renno probably wouldn't have known. If they were notified officially then yes that does look bad.
If Renno knew for sure that the allegations Jr was making after Hungary were proven and true then yes they should have fired Flabio and Symonds earlier but we don't know how it went down so speculation is not helpful.
The fact remains that 2 teams cheated but only one chose to get its house in order and admit to what had happened before the trial. McLaren went into the WMSC in 2007 protesting their innocence, Renno went in today admitting that race fixing had occured.
When you walk into court guilty you're always going to be treated differently if you own up to it or if you don't.
I don't want Renault to have been thrown out of the championship, but zeroing their points for this year would have been a better punishment IMO.
Renault wouldn't quit because of that. They are 8th in the championship, and might be taken over by Force India and finish the season 9th. Surely, there is only a few million dollars there to be gained anyway, and so, zeroing would not have made that much of a financial difference to Renault, but it would have sent the right message to the fans and the world.
I don't want Renault to have been thrown out of the championship, but zeroing their points for this year would have been a better punishment IMO.
Renault wouldn't quit because of that. They are 8th in the championship, and might be taken over by Force India and finish the season 9th. Surely, there is only a few million dollars there to be gained anyway, and so, zeroing would not have made that much of a financial difference to Renault, but it would have sent the right message to the fans and the world.
Ex-Autosport hack Adam Cooper wrote a nice analysis of this sorry saga for Speed TV:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...only-big-news/
Did anyone inform the parent company back then?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Sure. Buy yourself a magnifying glass first, and a mirror might help too! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Ok. The bottom line is they acted days before they were due to appear before the WMSC. Better late than never I guess, but hardly the paragons of virtue suggested by ioan's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Contrary to ioan's view this case does not highlight how stupidly Ron Dennis acted at all. It does, however, show that senior figures within Renault fixed a Grand Prix by instructing one of their drivers to crash in order to benefit their other driver.
You need to be more specific. The same outcome as in which of the 2 cases?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Glimmerveen
News Flash: There are elections for the FIA presidency in 2 months time and no matter who wins it will not be Max Mosley.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Glimmerveen
They had only a few weeks since they were announced that they are being investigated. They had to make their own internal investigation before deciding something and that takes time too if it's properly done. As a result they found Flab and Pat guilty and they were fired soon after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
What exactly were you expecting?
That they have an internal investigation in the blink of an eye like McLaren had and came up with the wrong result and than start a public war how they are innocent, shed a tear here and there and than call it a witch hunt?! :rolleyes:
Will do old chap, although the sun isn't strong enough here today to burn my office down with those items... I will take your advice on board which is, if you twist facts or contradict yourself, simply avoid the posters that point this out to you, and preach about others doing exactly that... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
You realize you should have never mentioned this on a public board?! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
I said then (although I was not a board member at the time) and still think now that Mac should have been banned and I believe the same is true of Renault here. Trying to maintain grid numbers is not a good enough reason to excuse cheating, no matter how many people get thrown under the bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
That is a view point I appreciate and I share. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
However given that McLaren wasn't banned it's only right that Renault stay too.
You're right, sh!t a brick.. Pinoooooooo!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
What a farce. A driver is ordered to deliberately crash his car and the team's only punishment is two years on the naughty step followed by an immediate cessation of chocolate rations. They should have been stripped of the 2008 constructors points at the very least.
I still find it incredible that Alonso's side of the garage knew nothing of this, blindly accepting a ludicrous strategy with blind faith that it'd all turn out alright in the end, but still... :s
At least Flavio won't be involved in the sport any more, that's one positive.
This is true but it would have been nice for the FIA to have drawn a line today and said its not just Renault who will be banned if they fix a race again it would apply to all teams for any charge of cheating that can be proved.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I don't think that option was open to the WMSC. As far as I'm aware the standings were set in stone, so to speak, in November of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
well no $100 mill fine
nothing happening to piquet Jr
no deduction of points or anything
the whole thing is a farce and was soley intended on getting briatore out of the port as mosley is head hunting.
Next on his list. Frank Williams
I am truly disgusted that piquet Jr. walks away from this one scot free, after all iot was he who pulled the trigger on the gun. I hope he never sees the inside of an F1 car ever again.
He was given immunity, just like Alonso and PDLR in 2007.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
I don't remember about you complaining about this practice 2 years ago.
Mosley wanted Ron Dennis and Flavio Briatore out of the sport. Piquet, Alonso and de la Rosa were able to assist in this and thus were given immunity. The only questions is: Has Max finished, or are there any other enemies?
As, in my case, would those (and this is not directed at your good self) whose opinion changes dramatically depending upon which teams happen to be involved in whichever matter is being discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Yeah, but I was not talking to you! :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
You can accuse about any prosecutor and police in the world for exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Precisely right. But we have had a thread on that sort of matter and the moderators showed no sign of acting, so that's not a discussion for here.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
He's running out of time right now, so I think that unless he manages to take down Bernie with a 'coup de maitre' he will stop here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Maybe it is for the better. From the old boys now only Frank and Ross remain. Frank is unpleasant and cold, but he is not a cheater in my opinion. Ross, I think he is on the edge, but never crossing it. Ross I think is also very smart, smarter than Ron, Flav, or Max. Maybe F1 needs the old boys gone.
Deleted post
I'll miss Flavio .
Every story needs a good villian .
He was the epitome of corpulent opulence , with his sweaty sunglasses reflecting the latest model to be displayed on his boat in the harbour .
I don't feel particularly sorry for him , as only his TV time will change , not his lifestyle . He's got enough to buy your a$$ , and sell it to the highest bidder , which is precisely what eventually got him in trouble .
Sitting on both sides of the table , as he was , was a plum spot , but the shark pool is smaller now , with more money pressure .
In the tobacco days , it was easy .
One thing that I wonder is , who's idea was this ruse in the first place ?
Was it Symmonds ? Would that be why he didn't cop the same plea as Piquet , fearing he might be fired ?
Was it Flavio ? Given he seems so lost when speaking about strategies , could he have come up with this ?
Was it Piquet ? Could he or his father have intimated that he would do anything to stay with the team ?
Was it Renault ? Could the strategists have seen this and alerted Symmonds ?
This suggestion holds water because Renault , with ING sponsoring the GP , would have wanted desperately to win , especially after a long drought , with talk of manufacturers leaving in the air . And , so far , I've only seen this referenced as reasoning for Flavio to have instigated the scam .
Who thought this up ?
That's a very flawed logic based on bias and nothing else. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
are they are a smarter bunch because of McLaren in 2007?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Not sure what exactly you mean with your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Anyway Renault are a smarter bunch than McLaren were back in 2007.
Symonds was in charge of the race strategy since the Benetton days, he's the one who was calling the shots at Renault just like Brawn did at Ferrari and now with his own team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
We can't blame Renault for something that was clearly Symonds call to make.
I guess that he and Flav had the ideea and than Symonds perfected the details.
You've got this one wrong old bean, me wasn't talking about the FIA, I was talking about you. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I mean, did the way McLaren got treated because they tried to cover up have any effect on the way Renault acted in this instance - The FIA set a precedent that day in 2007 and Renaults actions can arguably be attributed back to that.
Maybe, maybe not, impossible to prove either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Anyone and his dog know who is in charge of what in the F1 teams after watching F1 closely.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
This may have been mentioned, but has anyone noticed that the FIA have said they will not issue a superlicense to any driver associated with Briatore.
i'm not trying to prove anything, just offering an opinion as to why Renault have acted as they have, knowing if found guilty (which their inetrnal investigation must have come to) they would be in really bad shape if they went in pleading innocenceQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
That would be standard procedure in any court in such case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho