Tony George ousted from IMS

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/...car_irl_george

This is the part of the Yahoo/AP version that really caught my attention.

Quote:

---

But the cost to keep the track in good condition can be astronomical.

"This place wakes up every morning and eats money," George told local TV reporters. "We spend a lot of money keeping it in the condition we do. Certainly the Indy Racing League has in the past required a lot of capital to keep it going when there was two competing series — and a lot of money was spent last year trying to unify."

---

I had no idea IMS has been hemorrhaging cash.

And considering how rough the track's pavement is on COT tires, relations between IMS and NASCAR have become strained. I wonder how expensive it would be to apply a sealer to the track.

and a side note.....

yesterdays drama certainly detracted folks from the fact that the 2009 I500 was the lowest rated since it began being televised live......



*Ken ducks and weaves and runs like the wind........................

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090527/...car_irl_george

This is the part of the Yahoo/AP version that really caught my attention.



I had no idea IMS has been hemorrhaging cash.

And considering how rough the track's pavement is on COT tires, relations between IMS and NASCAR have become strained. I wonder how expensive it would be to apply a sealer to the track.

---

Sorry, I know this is a side issue, but I can't let it go. The TRACK is not rough on the COT tires. The COT is rough on the tires. The track has not changed in the last few years (perhaps it is even less abrasive). The COT is too heavy, has too much right side weight, and has too high a CG. NASCAR could fix this issue quick and easy, allow the teams to run more left side weight (55-60%) and the problem goes away.

This is not the TRACK'S fault.

'alot of money was spent trying to unify'-TG

net result was taking 2 series with 36 cars to 1 series with 21...

IMS doesn't need to do a thing to the track surface. GOODYEAR simply needs to get their heads out of their backside and make a tire that doesn't disintegrate. Remeber, Goodyear's tire problems are far far from exclusive to IMS. Their NASCAR tires and the COT are crap, and unfortunately, my current experience with their road tires isn't much different. I totally regret buying the Goodyears currently on my S4.

HEMORRHAGING cash? Look at the physical plant costs alone. That is one huge piece of property to maintain, and IMS is kept in very good condition. Also as any home owner knows, an old girl is far more capital intensive to maintain, and with the demands of 3 race events, that demand and wear and tear is far greater than in the past with only one race. The construction of the F1 facilities and then the configuration of the road coursefor Moto GP was no small project if one looks at what was actually done. Ever seen what it costs to maintain a golf course on a monthly basis? All of the changes and improvements TG has made over the last 15-20 years have been remarkable if not controversial. IMHO, the current track looks far better than the track I first visited in '91. As an unabashed critic as I am of TG as it relates to the IRL, as a track manager, I'd admittedly give TG pretty high marks. Yeah, he smashed a lot of traditions, but the track has never looked better and was horribly underutilized.

The problems come in when one looks at the costs of supporting a marginal professional race series for 14 years on the back of that single facility. If I were in the family, I would have hauled in those reins long ago. The effects of the economy reach far and wide. They may not be all waltzing around in Prada, but in the end, they have known well what has been going on and have allowed it to happen. I think the economy is simply really causing folks at all levels to re-evaluate their long term cash flow, and the first thing you do is look at income and expenses. It's pretty evident the IRL is a HUGE drain on their coffers. If you were going to re-allocate management to control costs, bringing in a hired gun to run a facility with a proven track record and very well established traditions is the easy person to replace IMHO. Give TG his series, concentrate on the task at hand and make it work. I still doubt we've heard the last of this.

As far as the Brickyard race, NASCAR needs to learn, the car needs to be changed to suit the track, not vice versa. If Goodyear has problems with tires at ten-12 tracks, year after year, It's not the track, it's the tires and the car. I won't even get into the whole COT. Brian France is worse than TG. Let the teams work on the dang cars. Teh COT is horrible and now, so is the racing. I've watched exactly 1 race this year, and I'm apparently not alone. If anyone thought it was as manipulated as the WWF in the before, it's setting all new highs (or lows) with the COT.

I'm suprized his family hasn't yanked the rug out from under his feet as well.

Having watched the video of the press conference, my impression is that TG was lying at least to some extent or at least not telling the full and accurate story. Something is going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabf1

Having watched the video of the press conference, my impression is that TG was lying at least to some extent or at least not telling the full and accurate story. Something is going on.

---

I agree. He seemed to be ducking and weaving just like a pro boxer.

How many times did he say, "I don't know"?

:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

How many times did he say, "I don't know"?

:D

---

i dont know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SosO3XDTo8k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

How many times did he say, "I don't know"?

:D

---

I'm drunk as a skunk if that tells you anything. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabf1

Having watched the video of the press conference, my impression is that TG was lying at least to some extent or at least not telling the full and accurate story. Something is going on.

---

I've never seen him act any other way. I'm not taking a jab at him nor defending him - that's pretty much what he does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by methanolHuffer

I've never seen him act any other way. I'm not taking a jab at him nor defending him - that's pretty much what he does.

---

TG is as good at speaking in public as Robin is at getting the real story out.

No doubt, something is going on, but Robin said it was a done deal.

I'm wondering if one of TG's sisters didn't throw a tantrum after not getting what she wanted at the board meeting and told Robin that Tony was ousted. Robin didn't protect himself by getting either a confirmation from another source or a denial from the corporation. He posted and then Bruce Martin folllowed suit.

SpeedTV.com has allowed the story to be edited at least once without noting any changes were made; the original posting time is still attached to the amended story. I guess that way you don't have to retract anything; you just make believe it never occurred. Reminds of "did not!, did too!" arguments of little children.

It's going to be an interesting weekend at the Milwaukee Mile.

When asked if a vote had been taken to have him removed, he says maybe there was some other meeting he was not aware of. Isn't this a rather curious statement to make? Says it twice during the interview.

I wish work wasn't so busy. I'm missing the good stuff!

Assuming that he is ousted as the CEO of IMS, I don't think it'd make much difference to the Speedway or the IRL. At least not in the near term.

If he is told to focus 100% on the IRL and it doesn't make money, then he'll have problems.

I just checked in with well known reporter Gordon Kirby who says Robin Miller's story is correct. He says to check carefully the written statements released by IMS's PR dept. concerning the goings on of the IMS board, and they are carefully preparing for the transition to post TG at IMS. Monitor this deal over the next few weeks and the real story will emerge. It seems that all the money TG was spending to fight CART/Champ Car is going to come back to haunt him, leaving a very harsh verdict from history when this chapter is finally written.

I still believe the story, I suspe ctRM was simply fed incorrect or incomplete information regarding the timing of the change and he just rushed the story in what was probably an overwhelming orgasm of satisfaction, knowing his most hated individual was about to have the keys to the bank yanked from his pockets.

Robin Miller didn't do anything different from what any reporter would do with a pressure cooker story like that, which is to report it as soon as he gets it. And I'm sure he checked with other sources before releasing it. Last thing someone in his position wants to do is be embarrassed. According to my friend, he's right on the money. If I remember correctly, he called Champ Car on a few things at a pre-season spring training run at Laguna Seca which he took a lot of grief for, until it became clear as the season progressed he was right on most of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigelred5

IMS doesn't need to do a thing to the track surface. GOODYEAR simply needs to get their heads out of their backside and make a tire that doesn't disintegrate. Remeber, Goodyear's tire problems are far far from exclusive to IMS. Their NASCAR tires and the COT are crap, and unfortunately, my current experience with their road tires isn't much different. I totally regret buying the Goodyears currently on my S4.

---

I know Goodyear makes a lot of crappy tires and I know the COT sucks, but even before the COT Goodyear has been having the same problem with the track since it was repaved. The difference is that it the problem would go away once the track rubbered in. With the COT, it won't rubber in. The rubber sheds off the tire as dust (instead of big marbles) and doesn't stick to the track.

First off, I was dying a slow death knowing all this was going on and I was away from my computer. Something like this doesn't happen every day.

Second. It seems Robin's story kind of changed the tone of the IMS statement. There was likely a LOT of truth in it and I suspect one of the sisters or someone connected to them is the source. Is Robin happy about all of this? I think part of him is very happy to exact revenge on Tony. Remember George's treatment of Robin in the aftermath of the split. Robin wasn't even allowed on the property and it is rumoured Tony's influence is one of the reason's Robin lost his job at the Indy Star. You can bet your last buck Robin is enjoying this on some level.

Now, From what I saw of the official statement and how most of the journalistic racing writers such as Gordon Kirby are backing Robin says to me that he had the essence of the story right, and when the board realized how bad they looked, some tap dancing and spin was created. Lets face it, the Hulman's don't want to look like they just kicked him to the curb.

Listen, I have no problem with what Tony did with the Speedway. I think it is one of the most beautiful race plants anywhere and it may eat money, but it can make 30 million in one afternoon too. Where I am concerned is his mother letting him stay with the IRL and they are saying "it has the most potential for growth". Good god woman, this guy drove the product right into the iceberg. He has learned from some of his errors, but when you have his handpicked guy yelling like crazy to stop Helio from climbing the fence, it is clear to me that the regime running the IRL still hasn't learned enough.

This sport is in a fight for its life and we still have it run by the same guy who created most of the issues in the first place.

So now we have Humpy rumours around Indy. He was on NASCAR Sirius 128 outlet this morning (Thursday) and denied like crazy he was anything but a spectator and spent an inordinate amount of time dumping on Bruton Smith. That says to me Humpy is trying to distract us from the fact he IS considering going up to the Hoosier state and fixing some part of this mess.

Robin himself came on to the afternoon show and basically stood by the gist of the story, that Tony will be going, if not today, but at some point this year. He thinks it is all spin and PR that is being put out now. Robin basically stated that not everything is what it seems at IMS and we will see over the summer the results.

I wont bet against him. One thing is for sure, right or wrong, he covers the sport as someone who loves it, but he wont stand there and lie about his feelings for what is going on. NASCAR lost one of those guys when David Poole died but they have others; We only have Robin and occasionally Gordon Kirby. That isnt' enough.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MDS

Yeah, because full fields of mostly sponsored cars, a 36-race schedule, and competitive passing on oval tracks would be such a horror to endure.

---

Yes, it absolutely would. It's difficult enough to watch now. Coyne, NHL, KV and Conquest are my draw and nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL

OMG Miller ... huge credibility gaff

Echoes of Dan Rather and the Bush debacle. And look what happened to poor Dan

---

Yes, the Bush debacle that was never proven to be false and Rather thrown under the bus because CBS would not support him.

Miller is fine.

I agree with you, Mark, that what Our Good friend Tony George did at the speedway was good business. Bringing NASCAR for the Brickyard 400, despite what it did to tradition (as if speedway can't evolve and grow) was brilliant, and an instant cash cow. While I was as critical of him as anyone, I applauded him bringing back Formula 1 only to see Our Other Good Friend Bernie Ecceclstone try to screw him any way he could. I'm glad he told BE to take a hike.

The problem is that the money coming in from the Brickyard and F1 (during the first 4 years of profits) went into fighting CART/Champ Car and it was only a matter of time before the family would ask "is this worth it?". TG finally got his way, to an extent, with The Three Amigos but it cost open wheel racing its soul and legions of fans.

Don't anyone believe that any dip in tickets sold or TV ratings dive in 2009 had much to do with this. This has been coming for a long time, ever since the 23 & 8 scandal and the US 500 debacle; along with it the loss of great venues like Michigan, Fontana, Laguna Seca, Cleveland, Mid Ohio, Road America, Montreal, and Australia, just to name a few.

Chap, when I heard the ladies in his family were finally holding him to account, I thought they were a little late to the party. No one with half a brain in business would advocate what he did, yet he did it, and I will credit him only with the guts to keep spending money to keep the IRL afloat until he could wear CART out.

The Speedway has to always be the center piece of this series, as we all learned, but the one thing people have to realize is the series has to make sense for the competitors, the track owners, and still draw fans. In today's economy, I am worried the patient may be too sick to live without that IMS life support.

Meanwhile, the usual suspects keep taking shots at Miller. What they fail to realize is before the summer is out, the gist of his story will be true. He didn't wake up this week and decide to immolate his career on trying to get rid of Tony. A little bird who is reliable told him all this, and then the family reneged in the public statement. They also by the way, didn't leak this to make Robin look bad. I have a sneaking thought they were embarassed by Robin's speed in getting the story out and the heat they were taking for it.

THey are allowing Tony to save face....but his days of spending money like mad are over. Apparently the Speedway owns two corporate jets. WHY? God only knows what else will be sold out the door as time goes on.

My thing about this is the timing. TG's family should have seen the handwriting on the wall about this years ago, before open wheel racing fell into life support. Because of a lack of action, they have some accountability in this mess almost as much as TG does.

Perhaps Speed Channel should report more on the possibility of GM departing NASCAR and less on RM's latest TG fantasy....

I haven't watched or cared about the Indy 500 since the split. I continued to watch CART/Champcar for awhile but then gave up on it. Before the split, I believe CART was close to giving F1 a run for it's money.

It seems I recall when the CART teams did decide to field Indy entries for sponsors or other reasons, those CART drivers took the IRL to school on their own showplace track with their own cars. That summed up the IRL product pretty well I thought.

Chap, Fiero, I felt pretty similar to you guys. Tony was in this to get control of the sport, and his product and eventually the whole OW product began to suffer.

The chickens are coming home to roost...but I don't feel any joy in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Chap, Fiero, I felt pretty similar to you guys. Tony was in this to get control of the sport, and his product and eventually the whole OW product began to suffer.

The chickens are coming home to roost...but I don't feel any joy in it.

---

Whether anyone feels joy in it or not would depend on how personal each person has made it for themselves. But that aside, Mark do you have any faith TG and his hand picked organization can lead Indy car back to a prosperous state? For me, I don't. I don't know what the future is going to bring if serious changes are brought about, but at least with change, the possibility of Indycar making a comeback may exist. Under the current organization, I'm pessimistic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBell

Whether anyone feels joy in it or not would depend on how personal each person has made it for themselves. But that aside, Mark do you have any faith TG and his hand picked organization can lead Indy car back to a prosperous state? For me, I don't. I don't know what the future is going to bring if serious changes are brought about, but at least with change, the possibility of Indycar making a comeback may exist. Under the current organization, I'm pessimistic.

---

This is the time for something to happen isn't it? If Jeremy Mayfield brings a class action lawsuit against NASCAR for their (lack of) banned substance policy, open wheel could take back some of what they lost if they have some good people in there making some decisions. Could that someone be Humpy Wheeler who knows how to promote? Maybe, but he's not exactly an open wheel guy...

I'm with you, DBell: I dont' have faith that TG can lead Indy racing back to prosperity, let along its former glory. He has spent years focusing on cost contrainment tactics, but it appears that the IRL wasn't rolling in cash during our economy's good times. Why would this model work now? Having a series that attacts top drivers, teams, manufacturers/suppliers, and advertisers -- and loyal fans -- is not cheap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

I haven't watched or cared about the Indy 500 since the split. I continued to watch CART/Champcar for awhile but then gave up on it. Before the split, I believe CART was close to giving F1 a run for it's money.

It seems I recall when the CART teams did decide to field Indy entries for sponsors or other reasons, those CART drivers took the IRL to school on their own showplace track with their own cars. That summed up the IRL product pretty well I thought.

---

????

this has to do what with the thread?

In an economic climate which has seen empty seats multiplying at NASCAR events and sponsors jumping off like fleas on a dying dog Indycar has added sponsors, had more drivers fighting for 33 spots since the split, and filled the IMS grandstands to 95% capacity, and in all this the Rush Limbaugh of Open Wheel writes in the NewMax of racing that Tony George is about to get the boot....and the Crapies/NeckcarHeads go for it...ha ha ha...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

The Speedway has to always be the center piece of this series, as we all learned, but the one thing people have to realize is the series has to make sense for the competitors, the track owners, and still draw fans. In today's economy, I am worried the patient may be too sick to live without that IMS life support.

---

Is that what we learned? I thought it was that trying to run a series for the purpose of being a grid filler for a single grand event is untenable. Maybe someone should try running a series that is NOT just all about Indy, and yet still goes there. Then maybe there would then be some success. That hasn't been done in what, 13 years?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SportscarBruce

In an economic climate which has seen empty seats multiplying at NASCAR events and sponsors jumping off like fleas on a dying dog Indycar has added sponsors, had more drivers fighting for 33 spots since the split, and filled the IMS grandstands to 95% capacity, and in all this the Rush Limbaugh of Open Wheel writes in the NewMax of racing that Tony George is about to get the boot....and the Crapies/NeckcarHeads go for it...ha ha ha...

---

He is supposedly getting the boot from IMS, not from the IRL. Perhaps the family is not so worried about the IRL and the 500, but more worried about the 400 and the motorace. How are ticketsales doing for the by400 after last years debacle? Perhaps that's why they want Humpy Wheeler????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBell

Whether anyone feels joy in it or not would depend on how personal each person has made it for themselves. But that aside, Mark do you have any faith TG and his hand picked organization can lead Indy car back to a prosperous state? For me, I don't. I don't know what the future is going to bring if serious changes are brought about, but at least with change, the possibility of Indycar making a comeback may exist. Under the current organization, I'm pessimistic.

---

I had some faith last year because at least I figured we had momentum with the merger (the fact Tony agreed to a merger that at least gave the CCWS crowd an honourable way to save face), and a misplaced view that Brian Barnhart knew what he was doing. I wasn't sold on Tony's marketing and sales, but I was cautiously optimistic he may have learned something. This year, I am less so, but I don't know what can be done in this economic climate. My whole point, and always was that the seeds of this mess always went back to his original jihad to rule the OW world in North America. This sport was not without fault in 1994, but it didn't deserve the last decade and a half.

I have no faith in Tony personally to understand the series, and it is why I find it troubling they wont let him run the Speedway in the future it seems, but they want him running the IRL. My god, he has no idea on what to do with the IRL, it is the reason he is spending money like water. The Speedway makes money, and he has done a great job keeping it a showpiece. That is what he knows. Marketing of a series? Understanding Racing from the spectator at home, the team owner, or the fan in the stand? He doesn't grasp these realities and he should have handed the series over to someone who does a long time ago.

It was an ancedote that RM told on Wind Tunnel a few years back that convinced me Tony doesn't get it. RM reported on TG getting the team owners/managers together for a pre-season meeting and they were on him for all the costs of racing, and Tony scolded them for spending money on hospitality. He of course thought they were doing all of this just for fun, when in reality the hospitality aspect is the payback to the sponsors for signing LARGE checks to allow you to run. He didn't grasp the concept. THAT my friends is the thinking that has brought us to this point.

I have always said it, and sometimes bitten my tongue, but TG has not learned enough from his mistakes these past 14 years. He does not understand this sport in a manner that leads me to believe he can lead it. I have been quiet the last year on this because I wanted to be wrong in that he had learned, but I don't think he has.

Nice man, nice race track, give up being a series manager.....

Humpy Wheeler would do wonders. Everyone knocks his lack of "OW" pedigree, but the guy is a master promoter and he knows a good idea when he see's it. I guarntee you that if he was running IMS this year, the second Brian Barnhart tried to stop Helio from climbing that fence, the old boxer would be in Brian's face telling him that unless he wanted his jaw around his ear, to shut his trap and let the man climb the fence..... Humpy knows how to put on a show, and THAT is what the Indy 500 and the IRL NEEDS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SportscarBruce

Perhaps Speed Channel should report more on the possibility of GM departing NASCAR and less on RM's latest TG fantasy....

---

Bruce...you hate Robin don't you? Just admit it....and remember he has been right either totally or partially pretty much all the time, and he is usually ahead of the story.

People don't like Robin are usually just the ones who refuse to believe what they don't want to happen is happening....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

People don't like Robin are usually just the ones who refuse to believe what they don't want to happen is happening....

---

sounds like posters who are upset with other posters for posting TV ratings

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SportscarBruce

In an economic climate which has seen empty seats multiplying at NASCAR events and sponsors jumping off like fleas on a dying dog Indycar has added sponsors, had more drivers fighting for 33 spots since the split, and filled the IMS grandstands to 95% capacity, and in all this the Rush Limbaugh of Open Wheel writes in the NewMax of racing that Tony George is about to get the boot....and the Crapies/NeckcarHeads go for it...ha ha ha...

---

If Miller had the knowledge of motorsports that Limbaugh has of political science, France and Ecclestone would be licking his shoe-laces.

[quote="Mark in Oshawa"]I had some faith last year because at least This sport was not without fault in 1994, but it didn't deserve the last decade and a half.
The sport deserved it, many of the loyal fans did not.

it seems, but they want him running the IRL.
Maybe that is because many/some WANT the IRL to go away.

It was an ancedote that RM told on Wind Tunnel a few years back that convinced me Tony doesn't get it. RM reported on TG getting the team owners/managers together for a pre-season meeting and they were on him for all the costs of racing, and Tony scolded them for spending money on hospitality. He of course thought they were doing all of this just for fun, when in reality the hospitality aspect is the payback to the sponsors for signing LARGE checks to allow you to run. He didn't grasp the concept. THAT my friends is the thinking that has brought us to this point.