Kris Meeke

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Originally Posted by mknight

Better speed and results in C3 in Poland than Meeke in Finland. Including best C3 results in PS of the year.

3 times 3rd place in WRC championship, barely loosing second last year. Beating Ogier for the win in straight fight in same car. Clearly faster than Latvala in same car whole second half of 2016.

"Nothing". Pointless discussion really.

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tonnes of bull$hit

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Originally Posted by wrc2017

Mikkelsen was better in Poland than Meeke was in Finland... 2 events where these didn't compete against each other, then you go on to talk being 3rd best in a Volkswagen. You need to cleanse your nerd head and actually sit in a WRC car, and get the sh1t scared out of you, and stop trawling over e-wrc to find stats to suit your skewed arguments.

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The guy doesn't listen, obsessed with Meeke, you'd think he had asked him for an autograph was told to f off.
Telling lies and making up stuff about Loeb's test and not having the cajones to stand over the statement. Guy is a waster.

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Originally Posted by KKS

tonnes of bull$hit

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Name one team in WRC that would pick Meeke over Mikkelsen. Meeke is over the top. Mikkelsen is young and talented.

Something is wrong. Tanak or Mikkelsen should not be in the top of an asphalt rally the first day against the likes of Ogier and Neuville.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Name one team in WRC that would pick Meeke over Mikkelsen. Meeke is over the top. Mikkelsen is young and talented.

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Well...., you could say Toyota for starters. Tried to sign Meeke, pushed the boat out with a multi year contract and offered millions a year in wages. Meeke visited the team base and talked with Makinen extensively. Then when Andreas was a free agent - begging for anyone to give him a drive - Tommi didn't bat an eyelid (neither did Citroen at first). Surely if Tommi really rated Andreas as highly as the man he wanted to build his team around (Meeke), he would've given Mikkelsen a drive when he was right under their noses?

Citroen will also go into next year (from what I've heard, unless something changes in the next month) with Meeke for a full season, and no Mikkelsen.

People can rightfully or wrongfully agree or disagree with your statement, but the above is what we have to base the evidence on so far.

Ofcourse it could be different now after Meeke's poor year but even still, Andreas as of yet hasn't done anything in his C3 outings that Meeke hasn't done as well (Meeke didn't just fight at the front on a tarmac rally, he dominated Corsica. Also won in Mexico).

I do myself think Andreas would be a better long term bet than Meeke, but I don't think some team principals are as convinced as some fans on here. They have doubts about him, otherwise he would be locked into a long term contract right now.

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Originally Posted by er88

Well...., you could say Toyota for starters. Tried to sign Meeke, pushed the boat out with a multi year contract and offered millions a year in wages. Meeke visited the team base and talked with Makinen extensively. Then when Andreas was a free agent - begging for anyone to give him a drive - Tommi didn't bat an eyelid (neither did Citroen at first). Surely if Tommi really rated Andreas as highly as the man he wanted to build his team around (Meeke), he would've given Mikkelsen a drive when he was right under their noses?

Citroen will also go into next year (from what I've heard, unless something changes in the next month) with Meeke for a full season, and no Mikkelsen.

People can rightfully or wrongfully agree or disagree with your statement, but the above is what we have to base the evidence on so far.

Ofcourse it could be different now after Meeke's poor year but even still, Andreas as of yet hasn't done anything in his C3 outings that Meeke hasn't done as well (Meeke didn't just fight at the front on a tarmac rally, he dominated Corsica. Also won in Mexico).

I do myself think Andreas would be a better long term bet than Meeke, but I don't think some team principals are as convinced as some fans on here. They have doubts about him, otherwise he would be locked into a long term contract right now.

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What an excellent post.

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Originally Posted by er88

Well...., you could say Toyota for starters. Tried to sign Meeke, pushed the boat out with a multi year contract and offered millions a year in wages. Meeke visited the team base and talked with Makinen extensively. Then when Andreas was a free agent - begging for anyone to give him a drive - Tommi didn't bat an eyelid (neither did Citroen at first). Surely if Tommi really rated Andreas as highly as the man he wanted to build his team around (Meeke), he would've given Mikkelsen a drive when he was right under their noses?

Citroen will also go into next year (from what I've heard, unless something changes in the next month) with Meeke for a full season, and no Mikkelsen.

People can rightfully or wrongfully agree or disagree with your statement, but the above is what we have to base the evidence on so far.

Ofcourse it could be different now after Meeke's poor year but even still, Andreas as of yet hasn't done anything in his C3 outings that Meeke hasn't done as well (Meeke didn't just fight at the front on a tarmac rally, he dominated Corsica. Also won in Mexico).

I do myself think Andreas would be a better long term bet than Meeke, but I don't think some team principals are as convinced as some fans on here. They have doubts about him, otherwise he would be locked into a long term contract right now.

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Personally, I've never rated Meeke at all and I rate Mikkelsen about average, but let's be fair. The reason Meeke was getting super generous offers from Toyota and Mikkelsen got none is that in 2015/2016 Toyota was desperate to sign a winning driver. They had been courting everyone from Latvala to Loeb, even Petter Solberg. Finally after VW blew up they signed Latvala, with whom they had already been in talks for over a year. When Mikkelsen came looking for work, they didn't have a seat for him, hence no attention. Heck, they didn't even have a seat for Lappi at that point. So I don't think that reflects any real opinions that Tommi may have had of Meeke's vs Mikkelsen's ability.

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Originally Posted by er88

Meeke didn't just fight at the front on a tarmac rally, he dominated Corsica.

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Going into stage 7 when his engine blew up he was 1.5 secs ahead of Neuville. Hardly a domination really. People are still citing Corsica as the event where it "was not his fault", but lets be fair, with Neuville chasing him hard in the event where C3 was supposed to dominate with couple of stages to go, the mistake was lingering there somewhere and it only didn't happen because his car gave up first.

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

Personally, I've never rated Meeke at all and I rate Mikkelsen about average, but let's be fair. The reason Meeke was getting super generous offers from Toyota and Mikkelsen got none is that in 2015/2016 Toyota was desperate to sign a winning driver. They had been courting everyone from Latvala to Loeb, even Petter Solberg. Finally after VW blew up they signed Latvala, with whom they had already been in talks for over a year. When Mikkelsen came looking for work, they didn't have a seat for him, hence no attention. Heck, they didn't even have a seat for Lappi at that point. So I don't think that reflects any real opinions that Tommi may have had of Meeke's vs Mikkelsen's ability.

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I get your point there, but imo Makinen and Matton could easily have found space for Andreas at the start of the year if they *really* wanted to. My take is that they didn't feel he was good enough to warrant the extra cost/ sidelining much weaker drivers in Hanninen and Lefebrve.

Both teams should have signed him there and then and basically everyone on this forum thought so as well, but it needed a total Citroen crisis for one of the team managers to reconsider (and even then it's only been a deal for a few events). Doesn't give off the vibe that the two managers rate the guy anywhere near as highly as they probably should.

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Originally Posted by er88

I get your point there, but imo Makinen and Matton could easily have found space for Andreas at the start of the year if they *really* wanted to. My take is that they didn't feel he was good enough to warrant the extra cost/ sidelining much weaker drivers in Hanninen and Lefebrve.

Both teams should have signed him there and then and basically everyone on this forum thought so as well, but it needed a total Citroen crisis for one of the team managers to reconsider (and even then it's only been a deal for a few events). Doesn't give off the vibe that the two managers rate the guy anywhere near as highly as they probably should.

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For Makinen it was a very specific situation, there was clear non-performance reasons for Latvala: He's Finish living close to the team base afaik, same manager as Makinen and experience from both Ford and VW to help with development, in the end rather obvious pick.

Replacing Hanninen with Mikkelsen at that point would be a bit risky imo, Hanninen was the only driver that was there during the whole car development and had a contract. Didn't look like they had so much many at that point. Prbly got more after good start of the season.

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As for Matton well his quote of not being interested in either Latvala or Mikkelsen "cause they are not French and don't have 4 titles and he has a driver lineup" will clearly go down in WRC history. It resulted in car with major issues (likely things would change if Latvala or Mikkelsen came and said it was crap (like Mikkelsen did in Sardinia)), Lefevbre crashing in every rally and first doing a decent result in Poland... and Meeke.

Also at this point Mikkelsen has not proved fast in any other car than VW... his outings with R5 showed it was not only the car.

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Comparing Meeke (since we are in this thread) and Mikkelsen is like comparing McRae and Burns in 2002-2003.

Meeke is win or crash (lately mostly the second part). With lots of stage wins results in "what ifs" all around.

Mikkelsen is quite different. Even in rallies which he won he barely sets 1-2 top stage times. Instead it's always very close to the stage winner but possibly with a good lead overall. This does not really inspire standing ovations from fans/jurnos following rallies stage by stage. Friday here in germany is an example. Even better example is one section in Poland. Mikkelsen beat Lefevbre by 10s on first stage, then was 1-2s behind in 3 stages after that. For the section that meant some 3-4s ahead. Yet the quote from WRC Radio was "Lefevbre is consistently faster".

I've heard that Latvala was chosen over Mikkelsen because Latvala has more experience from developing cars. Also the reason why Hänninen is driving this season is that he's the main guy developing and testing the car and it's a part of the development program to complete the season, not to collect maximum manufacturer points.

I didn't know Meeke was negotiating with Toyota, but after Rally Finland 2016, I think anyone would have wanted him.

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Originally Posted by wrc2017

so Matton decision was right? before he was leading rallys, now his confidence is shot.
Do you really expect him to come back from a layoff and be winning rallys.. how does that work in your head?
Sordo, Lappi, Latvala, Ogier, Breen, Neuville, Tanak were all totally out of road today, and only by pure chance they didnt take a wheel off. Meeke took it easy today and took no chances, after yesterdays mistake, now your blaming him?

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You know it´s not only Germany.

Meeke looks like a psychological wreck sometimes.

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Going into stage 7 when his engine blew up he was 1.5 secs ahead of Neuville. Hardly a domination really. People are still citing Corsica as the event where it "was not his fault", but lets be fair, with Neuville chasing him hard in the event where C3 was supposed to dominate with couple of stages to go, the mistake was lingering there somewhere and it only didn't happen because his car gave up first.

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Yeah going into 7 it may have been that. Meeke never started stage 7. His engine blew in the last kms of stage 6 and he coasted to the end of it. His lead prior to that over neuville was nearly 20s if i mind right. But feel free to correct me if im wrong and do ur research a little better. And as for him crashing id love to c the crystal ball u have when ur so certain he would have crashed. Give the guy a break. Yeah performances lately havent been great. If ur boss undermines something u do at work when u know you have busted ur balls doin it. and he says thats not good enough ur sweeping the floor for a week. Are u gonna give it ur all again or say f@*k this and lay back and do the least amount required for a while

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Originally Posted by wia5958

Yeah going into 7 it may have been that. Meeke never started stage 7. His engine blew in the last kms of stage 6 and he coasted to the end of it. His lead prior to that over neuville was nearly 20s if i mind right.

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that's right

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Originally Posted by mknight

or Mikkelsen came and said it was crap (like Mikkelsen did in Sardinia)),

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Meeke said that but team has "own opinion" about this and ignore all that.... and here Mikkelsen come and says exactly the same and after that Matton start to think a little bit.

Yeah, Meeke is not mentally strength guy but it's not good team spirit inside a team when tech do what they want and driver must use to it. You never be fast in this circumstances. Why they sign Meeke and then "eat" him inside a team....

as for question:

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Originally Posted by Eric

Name one team in WRC that would pick Meeke over Mikkelsen. Meeke is over the top. Mikkelsen is young and talented.

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M-Sport.

Mikkelsen is grew up on VW totall domination and he always be 3rd on this cheaty car. All this talks about "He beat Ogier in same car" it's blablablah. How many times he do that? Ones? per 4 years? Really great achievement! And he looks strong at 2016 cuz Latvala was mentally down and couldn't drive at full strength. But he not good as Ogier or Latvala.
And gravel rallys show that he on Breen level... or maybe a little bit higher.

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Originally Posted by KKS

And gravel rallys show that he on Breen level... or maybe a little bit higher.

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Which rallies?
Poland where he beat Breen clearly in same car?
Also where is Meeke on gravel rallies compared with Breen looking at points and Finland result?

Two of Mikkelsens wins are on gravel, both in rallies where Ogier and Latvala didn't have tech. issues.

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Btw. Matton said that Loeb used Breens and Mikkelsens setup on his test but not Meekes cause it was "too much of a racing car". Kinda puts doubt on the ideas that "the engineers" developed the C3 contrary to Meekes wishes.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Which rallies?
Poland where he beat Breen clearly in same car?
Also where is Meeke on gravel rallies compared with Breen looking at points and Finland result?

Two of Mikkelsens wins are on gravel, both in rallies where Ogier and Latvala didn't have tech. issues.

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Btw. Matton said that Loeb used Breens and Mikkelsens setup on his test but not Meekes cause it was "too much of a racing car". Kinda puts doubt on the ideas that "the engineers" developed the C3 contrary to Meekes wishes.

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Ever think that this could mean he preferred meekes setup giving that loeb is quite a nose first driver as racecars normally are and that driving mikklesons and breens setups may have give him some insight to where the flaws are in the car. Just because he said meekes setup was like a racecar it does not mean he didnt like or prefer it

And as for mikklesons wins he inherited 2 of them poland where tanak was unlucky with a puncture spain ogier crashed and he won in australia a last event of the year where ogier had the title and nothing to fight for im not taking his wins away from him but they are the facts

And if u want to compare the 3 drivers at least do it on rallys where the 3 of them competed against each other and on the same events and were all in top form for this go back to 2016 instead of comparing 1 driver on 1 rally to another driver on a completely different rally

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Originally Posted by wia5958

Ever think that this could mean he preferred meekes setup giving that loeb is quite a nose first driver as racecars normally are and that driving mikklesons and breens setups may have give him some insight to where the flaws are in the car. Just because he said meekes setup was like a racecar it does not mean he didnt like or prefer it

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You mean he will on purpose not try the settings he prefers on a car that he has never drive before? Uhh.

Anyway it's just a comment Matton made in the pre-event press conf+interview. Maybe no need to read too much into it.

Do u know what the exact purpose of loebs test was. Cause i dont. Do you know if he was told get in and drive the car as fast as u can in your preferred setup or was he told seb drive the car can u tell us what u think can be done to make it better

Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression your stupid than to open it and remove all doubt

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Originally Posted by mknight

You mean he will on purpose not try the settings he prefers on a car that he has never drive before? Uhh.

Anyway it's just a comment Matton made in the pre-event press conf+interview. Maybe no need to read too much into it.

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Loeb tested at Alsace, not Germany like the others.

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Originally Posted by wia5958

Do u know what the exact purpose of loebs test was. Cause i dont. Do you know if he was told get in and drive the car as fast as u can in your preferred setup or was he told seb drive the car can u tell us what u think can be done to make it better

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Personal attacks is the only way to go for you now. As of now you are down to every second post like that.
You still have a bit left to NOT level, but not much.

Its directly proportional to the amount of shite you talk.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Personal attacks is the only way to go for you now. As of now you are down to every second post like that.
You still have a bit left to NOT level, but not much.

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Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira

I don’t have any interest, for now, in Matton or Citroën relationship. I was preoccupied with Kris. It seems game over to him.

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Well, let's hope this thread goes in the right direction;)

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Originally Posted by Sulland

is there something wrong with Arabs?

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something ? of course not...

Everything, yes.

Back to Meeke:
Last year I believed Latvala was heading towards the end of his career. He looked like a broken man. This year he looks like he has found his mojo and could be a genuine championship contender if it hadn't been for a few mechanical issues.

Meeke needs to reset and find his groove. He has pace and on his day can be right in the mix. Some confidence and support with the car and from the team is needed. How this is achieved is anyone's guess. Dropping him for a rally probably wasn't the best move and hasn't worked.

Couple of rallies to the end of the season to keep working hard and hope it comes together. It's anyone's guess what Citroens next move is but I don't see a full-time Loeb return. Taking Meeke, Loeb, Mikkelsen and Breen on extended test sessions is probably the best bet with 2018 in mind.

The car has bags of potential but they need to dial it in for all drivers at the same time. No use having a single driver leading a rally and the others pulling their hair out at the wrong end of the top ten working like hell to keep it on the road or terrified to get any pace out of it without going off.

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Originally Posted by rhm

Back to Meeke:
Last year I believed Latvala was heading towards the end of his career. He looked like a broken man. This year he looks like he has found his mojo and could be a genuine championship contender if it hadn't been for a few mechanical issues.

Meeke needs to reset and find his groove. He has pace and on his day can be right in the mix. Some confidence and support with the car and from the team is needed. How this is achieved is anyone's guess. Dropping him for a rally probably wasn't the best move and hasn't worked.

Couple of rallies to the end of the season to keep working hard and hope it comes together. It's anyone's guess what Citroens next move is but I don't see a full-time Loeb return. Taking Meeke, Loeb, Mikkelsen and Breen on extended test sessions is probably the best bet with 2018 in mind.

The car has bags of potential but they need to dial it in for all drivers at the same time. No use having a single driver leading a rally and the others pulling their hair out at the wrong end of the top ten working like hell to keep it on the road or terrified to get any pace out of it without going off.

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very nice post,but we have to remember that at Latvalas case he had the money to participate non stop for more than 10 years at wrc,to see this result at 2017. Meeke hasn't got these ''chances''.
I don't want to think that Meeke is ''finished'' after all these have happened.
is a driver that at right circumstances can be in the mix.
don't know though how strong mentally he is to turn this situation.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Personal attacks is the only way to go for you now. As of now you are down to every second post like that.
You still have a bit left to NOT level, but not much.

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nobody is even close to my level kid... get your facts right.

Kris must be in a really bad place. He appears to have had the 'stuffing' knocked out of him. Perhaps it's time to contemplate his future!

Hope i am wrong, but i think Meeke will not go to Catalunya.

Why would Kris not be going to Catalunya? I thought the driver line up was already chosen for Spain?

He was supposed to go to Poland too...

Can anyone update me on what happened to Meeke's car in Germany? I know he crashed in Saarbrucken but he did restart after that. Next think I know the car is covered up on Sat night. I couldn't get internet in Germany and nothing was mentioned on WRC news or the highlights (is he not worth a mention anymore?)

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Originally Posted by Jinu13

Can anyone update me on what happened to Meeke's car in Germany? I know he crashed in Saarbrucken but he did restart after that. Next think I know the car is covered up on Sat night. I couldn't get internet in Germany and nothing was mentioned on WRC news or the highlights (is he not worth a mention anymore?)

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Water pump failure, they didn't want to continue to risk overheating the engine. Also Paul Nagle's wife gave birth to a baby on Saturday so it was another reason not to do rally2 on sunday, and they didn't feel like achieving anything on the sunday stages either.

My impression of Kris Meeke is that he can still become a World Champion if he just manages to relax himself in the car a couple of notches somehow, it is not a question of talent or speed and the age is not a problem either. But when I watch a Kris Meeke onboard, even his amazing Ouninpohja onboard from 2016, it's like watching something that is wound a bit too tight and which would perform a lot better if it was a bit looser. His basic driving style is very nice and smooth and he has everything it takes in that sense. But I think his pacenotes are a big problem. Just way too much information in my opinion, which eventually leads to more mistakes as the brain has too much information to process at the same time. I think Petter Solberg also ended up having the same problem in his career. More information is only good until a certain point from where it will become a big disadvantage. It feels like Meeke's co-driver often has to hurry to keep up and somehow it is all a bit too intense and forced from both Meeke and Nagle, rather than a nice and relaxed performance. I would go with Nicky Grist type of reading and Colin McRae level of simplicity any day over Kris Meeke notes.

Maybe also Richard Burns was too much ambitious with his pace notes.

Best example of the other way around must be Tommie Makinen in Finland. Don´t know his PN in other rallies.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

My impression of Kris Meeke is that he can still become a World Champion if he just manages to relax himself in the car a couple of notches somehow, it is not a question of talent or speed and the age is not a problem either. But when I watch a Kris Meeke onboard, even his amazing Ouninpohja onboard from 2016, it's like watching something that is wound a bit too tight and which would perform a lot better if it was a bit looser. His basic driving style is very nice and smooth and he has everything it takes in that sense. But I think his pacenotes are a big problem. Just way too much information in my opinion, which eventually leads to more mistakes as the brain has too much information to process at the same time. I think Petter Solberg also ended up having the same problem in his career. More information is only good until a certain point from where it will become a big disadvantage. It feels like Meeke's co-driver often has to hurry to keep up and somehow it is all a bit too intense and forced from both Meeke and Nagle, rather than a nice and relaxed performance. I would go with Nicky Grist type of reading and Colin McRae level of simplicity any day over Kris Meeke notes.

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Unless my memory deceives me, Paul reads the notes really close to the actual corner... like notes for only one corner ahead. Many other drivers have notes several corners ahead.

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Originally Posted by itix

Unless my memory deceives me, Paul reads the notes really close to the actual corner... like notes for only one corner ahead. Many other drivers have notes several corners ahead.

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May be so, in Monte Meeke's off on the first stage the "respect the ice" note seems to came when the car was already in trouble.

I agree.. I've often wondered how on earth Kris takes in so much information. And yes I thought the same about Solberg.

I wonder if a new notes system or even a new co-driver could be tried, assuming it is an issue ?

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

I agree.. I've often wondered how on earth Kris takes in so much information. And yes I thought the same about Solberg.

I wonder if a new notes system or even a new co-driver could be tried, assuming it is an issue ?

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Don't forget - he has won rallys with this co-driver and he must feel comfortable with these notes, otherwise why wouldn't he have changed them by now?