Mosley 'knows' who set him up

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Originally Posted by Malllen

He needs to get all the details before specific accusations start. Depending on who the person is or from what company, if Mosley names them without 100% proof, he (or maybe the FIA) can get the t**s sued off them for defamation.

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Certainly he needs detail before making accusations, but he's making non-specific accusations anyway. The Autosport story doesn't actually quote Max saying the individual he suspected was behind the affair is from F1. He is quoted as saying a number of things around that subject, but not that specifically. That approach, and the effect, is somewhat similar to the infamous "halfwit" comment which didn't actually name the person concerned.

IMHO the criminal proceedings and defamation actions across Europe relate to the NoTW story being repeated elsewhere, and that is an issue for Max personally, not for the FIA President, the FIA or F1. The only reason the FIA and F1 are being drawn into this is due to Max's allegation of a "plot".

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Certainly he needs detail before making accusations, but he's making non-specific accusations anyway. The Autosport story doesn't actually quote Max saying the individual he suspected was behind the affair is from F1. He is quoted as saying a number of things around that subject, but not that specifically. That approach, and the effect, is somewhat similar to the infamous "halfwit" comment which didn't actually name the person concerned.

IMHO the criminal proceedings and defamation actions across Europe relate to the NoTW story being repeated elsewhere, and that is an issue for Max personally, not for the FIA President, the FIA or F1. The only reason the FIA and F1 are being drawn into this is due to Max's allegation of a "plot".

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If Max is right , and the point of the plot was to oust him from the position , we should be able to assume that it was someone with something to gain from that move .

Max works with sanctioning and rule making , so we see someone is unhappy with one or both , and trying to change the situation .
Since this seems to be the case , does it not make sense to use the rules that whomever is trying to avoid , to punish the actions ?

Bagwan, you appear to be more willing than I to accept what Max is saying with regard to a "plot" and I sense that as long as that is the case we will continue to have a difference of opinion on this :)

Until Max provides any kind of evidence of a "plot", then I'll stick with what is already known, and that is that the NoTW once again employed chequebook journalism to expose the private life of a public figure. It's what they've been doing since 1843.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Certainly he needs detail before making accusations, but he's making non-specific accusations anyway. The Autosport story doesn't actually quote Max saying the individual he suspected was behind the affair is from F1. He is quoted as saying a number of things around that subject, but not that specifically. That approach, and the effect, is somewhat similar to the infamous "halfwit" comment which didn't actually name the person concerned.

IMHO the criminal proceedings and defamation actions across Europe relate to the NoTW story being repeated elsewhere, and that is an issue for Max personally, not for the FIA President, the FIA or F1. The only reason the FIA and F1 are being drawn into this is due to Max's allegation of a "plot".

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Personally I find Max's manner insufferable and want him to quit. But legally he hasn't done anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

This has no basis in fact and is completely made up.

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It has as much basis as any of your claims have. :p :

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Originally Posted by ioan

It has as much basis as any of your claims have. :p :

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Ahhhh, but you state that ehe man in the street doesn't remember squat and offer to bet that if you ask people on the streets about max Mosley 999 out of 1000 won't know who he is etc, etc.

I just offered to take that bet because it was a pretty hot topic at the time and keenly discussed. Even now, you occassionally hear a joke about Max and Whipping.

That seems to conflict with your statement that 1 in every 1000 don't know who he is doesn't it.

If you fancy a quick straw poll, ask 10 people today if they know who Max is and if they do, what they know about him. I'll do the same but answer honestly ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Even now, you occassionally hear a joke about Max and Whipping.

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I live half time in 2 different countries and never heard a joke about Mosley and whipping, not even when the news broke.
I suppose the academic circle isn't much interested about other peoples private life. :p :

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

If you fancy a quick straw poll, ask 10 people today if they know who Max is and if they do, what they know about him. I'll do the same but answer honestly ;)

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I'll let you know tomorrow the results. :D

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Bagwan, you appear to be more willing than I to accept what Max is saying with regard to a "plot" and I sense that as long as that is the case we will continue to have a difference of opinion on this :)

Until Max provides any kind of evidence of a "plot", then I'll stick with what is already known, and that is that the NoTW once again employed chequebook journalism to expose the private life of a public figure. It's what they've been doing since 1843.

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That's cool , Arrows .

I think there's pretty overwhelming circumstantial evidence of a plot , though .

Didn't the pretty culprit who supplied those pictures end up with nothing for her time , and seemingly not make a fuss ? That points to her being paid by someone else , if the story of her imminent bankrupcy being the motive is to be believed .

I know , as do you , that Max has many who criticize his ways .
It's not a stretch to imagine many want to see him out of office , and just a step farther to see it would be a possibilty that he was the victim of a sting .

The only real revelation in Max's statement is that he says he knows it came from the paddock .
If true , and we know that eventually he will have to tell us the rest of the story , now that he's revealed this much , it will have had to be someone who knew it was going on , therefore likely someone in the circle for a long while .
For this to have taken so many years to be revealed , even to his wife , it had to be going on with incredible secrecy .

If this was known about at all in the paddock , it had to have been seen as a "taboo" subject , not to be spoken of .


Speculation of who it was would only cause argument , but I have my suspicions of who Max believes it was .

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Ahhhh, but you state that ehe man in the street doesn't remember squat and offer to bet that if you ask people on the streets about max Mosley 999 out of 1000 won't know who he is etc, etc.

I just offered to take that bet because it was a pretty hot topic at the time and keenly discussed. Even now, you occassionally hear a joke about Max and Whipping.

That seems to conflict with your statement that 1 in every 1000 don't know who he is doesn't it.

If you fancy a quick straw poll, ask 10 people today if they know who Max is and if they do, what they know about him. I'll do the same but answer honestly ;)

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The whole Spanky Max affair has been referenced more than once on satirical programmes in the UK such as Mock The Week and Have I Got News For You, which normally only discuss high-profile political or showbiz stories. I'd wager that a year ago it was only those with an interest in motorsport who had heard of Mosley, nowadays the "man on the Clapham omnibus" is well aware of who he is, even if they don't fully understand his FIA role.

The dungeongate / prostitutegate / spankygate / butdefinatelynotnazigate affair has made him a household name.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

The whole Spanky Max affair has been referenced more than once on satirical programmes in the UK such as Mock The Week and Have I Got News For You, which normally only discuss high-profile political or showbiz stories. I'd wager that a year ago it was only those with an interest in motorsport who had heard of Mosley, nowadays the "man on the Clapham omnibus" is well aware of who he is, even if they don't fully understand his FIA role.

The dungeongate / prostitutegate / spankygate / butdefinatelynotnazigate affair has made him a household name.

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Not here in the colonies , Dave .

If I was to ask my close circle of F1 friends , I would get universal disdain .

If I was to ask the man on the street , especially if they all were members of the CAA , the Canadian affiliate of the FIA , I am quite positive I would get exactly the opposite reaction , as they would have not the foggiest idea of what I was talking about .

That goes a long way to refute the message sent by those who opposed him , and the idea that Mosely fixed the vote with small membership countries , as it was not so different when the issue was fresh in the headlines .
I have a coffee shop , and most I spoke with , had no idea anything was going on , let alone an opinion about it .

Frankly , I would be surprised if more than five per cent of those holding CAA membership have any idea thant they are affiliated with the FIA in the first place .


This may be a part of the issues we have seen regarding this hot topic , to some degree , because , we in North America haven't got it in our faces all the time .
It wasn't in the mainstream media to any great degree here , like it sounds it was in GB .

It was on the motorsport shows , but not for long .

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

The whole Spanky Max affair has been referenced more than once on satirical programmes in the UK such as Mock The Week and Have I Got News For You, which normally only discuss high-profile political or showbiz stories. I'd wager that a year ago it was only those with an interest in motorsport who had heard of Mosley, nowadays the "man on the Clapham omnibus" is well aware of who he is, even if they don't fully understand his FIA role.

The dungeongate / prostitutegate / spankygate / butdefinatelynotnazigate affair has made him a household name.

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Why do British people believe that the rest of the world is like on their Island?!
When it obviously isn't.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

It wasn't in the mainstream media to any great degree here , like it sounds it was in GB .

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That's because the GB media is hitting lower levels every day. Obviously this isn't the case in most other countries.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's because the GB media is hitting lower levels every day. Obviously this isn't the case in most other countries.

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Easy now , while that might be true , it is still where a lot of the teams are based .
That might have something to do with it as well .

We have our share of trashy journalism over here as well , though . It just tends to be about Hollywood , rather than Max and Coronation Street .

;) Ahh.. once again Ioan shows his ignorance.

:dozey: Most major news organizations are Inter-National...
having offices on site in various capitals.

A good example would be Rupert Murdoch's empire that's scattered around the World owning properties in:

Film
Television
Cable
Magazines
Newspapers
Publishing

All inter-related and sharing Headlines and information.

The World has been shrinking for years... making it harder to keep scandals isolated.

In fact, NOTW... which broke the Maxspankgate escapade, is just one of Murdoch's newspapers.

:rolleyes: Ioan just doesn't seem to have a clue !!!

:s mokin:

Ioan ,the British DO NOT think that the rest of the world is on their Island,BUT most of the F1 teams are based here, as is the subject that the thread is about.I also have an idea who Max thinks is behind it coming out.But dont have skeletons in cupboards !

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Originally Posted by ioan

I live half time in 2 different countries and never heard a joke about Mosley and whipping, not even when the news broke.

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You must be in a minority of one, though I'm not surprised that you probably find watching/listening to comedy beneath you and a waste of time that could be devoted to some higher pursuit.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's because the GB media is hitting lower levels every day. Obviously this isn't the case in most other countries.

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Pray inform us of your detailed knowledge of the British media and its development over the past decade.

How did Max know it was me?

On a more serious note, I'm utterly bored of all this SpankGate. Unless you have absolute proof Max, i would would shut up and stop reminding everyone about your personal preferences.

The person I feel most sorry for is Mrs Mosely.

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Originally Posted by NoahsGirl

On a more serious note, I'm utterly bored of all this SpankGate. Unless you have absolute proof Max, i would would shut up and stop reminding everyone about your personal preferences.

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I understand your opinion, but do you not think that there is actually quite an important point to be made about the privacy of those with what Max terms as 'unconventional' preferences in their private lives, or who simply wish to keep certain things, such as their sexuality, out of the public eye? I agree that having Max Mosley attempt to set himself up as a crusader for the human right to privacy is very hard to take, but the worst excesses — hardly any of which, such as phone-tapping, obtaining personal details from crooked sources in the police and other authorities, etc, he hasn't mentioned as part of his 'crusade' — should be curbed.

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Originally Posted by NoahsGirl

How did Max know it was me?

On a more serious note, I'm utterly bored of all this SpankGate. Unless you have absolute proof Max, i would would shut up and stop reminding everyone about your personal preferences.

The person I feel most sorry for is Mrs Mosely.

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:D Good point.

"Molsey knows who set him up" seems to be nothing but a Red Herring !!!

Max is attempting to divert attention (look @ the shiny object)

from...

What he was caught "DOING",

to

hoping people will focus on... "Who trapped him" !!!

:dozey: If Max wasn't planning to try for another term in office... it would probably have been in his best interest to have let the whole thing die.

I do understand what you are saying, and maybe I was trying to make my point crudely, but I don't understand why Max would say he "knows" who set him up, but he has no concrete proof and won't have for a couple of years or so. So why say something now? Why drag it all up again so he can metaphorically wag his finger in this person's face?

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Originally Posted by NoahsGirl

I do understand what you are saying, and maybe I was trying to make my point crudely, but I don't understand why Max would say he "knows" who set him up, but he has no concrete proof and won't have for a couple of years or so. So why say something now? Why drag it all up again so he can metaphorically wag his finger in this person's face?

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I think the truth is that he doesn't really care about the wider issue, being more concerned with his own situation, and that we will never find out who he thinks set him up. Why say something now? I don't know. Maybe the whole thing has made him a bit doolally. Maybe he is still genuinely angry.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think the truth is that he doesn't really care about the wider issue, being more concerned with his own situation, and that we will never find out who he thinks set him up. Why say something now? I don't know. Maybe the whole thing has made him a bit doolally. Maybe he is still genuinely angry.

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I too would be angry if my private life was splashed all over the papers and was made a figure of fun but he was warned about this a couple of months before the sting, so he has brought it all on himself.

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Originally Posted by NoahsGirl

I too would be angry if my private life was splashed all over the papers and was made a figure of fun but he was warned about this a couple of months before the sting, so he has brought it all on himself.

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Again, I totally see what you're getting at, but would you think that a famous person who wished to keep their homosexuality private but proved unable to because of press intrusion — of which they too had been forewarned — would have brought it all on themselves?

But he has brought it on himself BD. I had totally forgotten all about the incident and was looking forward to watching F1 racing in 2009. Now that Mr Mosely has said what he has said, he has brought it all up again in an attempt to dilute his press over the incident.

I truly hope i am being clear and concise, I am just incredulous at this "not my fault i was in the press" article.

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Originally Posted by driveace

Ioan ,the British DO NOT think that the rest of the world is on their Island,BUT most of the F1 teams are based here, as is the subject that the thread is about.

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You might have plenty of F1 teams, also the ones that got the biggest fines in the automotive history, as well as most bankrupt automotive manufacturers in the history and so on, but the greatest F1 team isn't there and never will be. :p :

Also the FIA and all it's national clubs aren't located there. :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

You might have plenty of F1 teams, also the ones that got the biggest fines in the automotive history, as well as most bankrupt automotive manufacturers in the history and so on, but the greatest F1 team isn't there and never will be. :p :

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A votre avis...

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Originally Posted by NoahsGirl

But he has brought it on himself BD. I had totally forgotten all about the incident and was looking forward to watching F1 racing in 2009. Now that Mr Mosely has said what he has said, he has brought it all up again in an attempt to dilute his press over the incident.

I truly hope i am being clear and concise, I am just incredulous at this "not my fault i was in the press" article.

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Of course he brought it upon himself in one sense, but the same could be said of virtually anyone exposed in the newspapers, no matter whether the story was legitimate.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Again, I totally see what you're getting at, but would you think that a famous person who wished to keep their homosexuality private but proved unable to because of press intrusion — of which they too had been forewarned — would have brought it all on themselves?

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Its a balancing act isn't it? If the homosexual you refer to happens to lead a right wing party that rails against gays then isn't it in the public interest?

If Mosley's proposals for press and privacy reforms are pushed through the balance would shift too far against a free press I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Its a balancing act isn't it? If the homosexual you refer to happens to lead a right wing party that rails against gays then isn't it in the public interest?

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Absolutely. As I said earlier in the thread, where hypocrisy is concerned, there can be no defence on the part of the person 'found out'.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

If Mosley's proposals for press and privacy reforms are pushed through the balance would shift too far against a free press I'm afraid.

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This is certainly a major concern of mine whenever the issue comes up, but I do still find the way in which basically law-abiding private lives that do not conform to what certain papers perceive to be a 'norm' get publicised rather worrying, as amusing as these cases often are. Now, I obviously realise that using prostitutes is not law-abiding, but what I'm getting at is that the defence of having an 'eccentric' or 'abnormal' private life could not be used by someone who enjoyed strangling people in their spare time. And as mentioned in one of my posts this evening, of more serious concern are the illegal methods used by sections of the media to obtain private information. Cases have been brought; punishments have never been sufficiently severe. How do you get rid of this while preserving the best of investigative journalism? It's a difficult one.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And as mentioned in one of my posts this evening, of more serious concern are the illegal methods used by sections of the media to obtain private information. Cases have been brought; punishments have never been sufficiently severe. How do you get rid of this while preserving the best of investigative journalism? It's a difficult one.

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This is one of the reasons why I think the initial high court ruling was so effective. Whilst it found the journalist guilty, sending the message to the press that such future behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, the penalty to the journalist involved was quite small so as to ensure that worried editors wouldn't be scared off investigating genuinely interesting stories.

Revisiting that ruling, which Mosley seems happy to do, wouldn't achieve much more IMO

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

This is one of the reasons why I think the initial high court ruling was so effective. Whilst it found the journalist guilty, sending the message to the press that such future behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, the penalty to the journalist involved was quite small so as to ensure that worried editors wouldn't be scared off investigating genuinely interesting stories.

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The trouble with all this is that nothing, not even court cases (which came to very little) has stamped out the illegal practices. As much as I as a journalist, albeit in a specialist field, believe press freedom needs to be upheld, I feel a harder line needs to be taken with regard to the unlawful/immoral collection of private information — though the idea that this could have prevented, for example, Jonathan Aitken from being found out disturbs me somewhat. So far, it hasn't been, not even when seemingly cast-iron cases came to court. I am really uncomfortable with some of the methods used.

One only has to look at how papers of all types in the UK, including some broadsheets, have gone back on their vacuous promises not to use paparazzi photos in the aftermath of Princess Diana's death to not be surprised at the lack of success of self-regulation.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Not here in the colonies , Dave .

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why do British people believe that the rest of the world is like on their Island?!
When it obviously isn't.

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My post clearly stated "in the UK", if it implied that it also referred to the rest of the world then I obviously didn't make it clear enough.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why do British people believe that the rest of the world is like on their Island?!
When it obviously isn't.

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I think you will find, with no offence intended to anyone/thing, that the rest of the world - and his dog - are on our Island, such is the ineffectiveness of our immigration policy..............

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I think you will find, with no offence intended to anyone/thing, that the rest of the world - and his dog - are on our Island, such is the ineffectiveness of our immigration policy..............

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Well, in this case, I certainly wouldn't want to go (be) there! :p :

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Originally Posted by ioan

You might have plenty of F1 teams, also the ones that got the biggest fines in the automotive history, as well as most bankrupt automotive manufacturers in the history and so on, but the greatest F1 team isn't there and never will be. :p :

Also the FIA and all it's national clubs aren't located there. :D

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We do have a rich heritage and knowledge base in F1. However, who is the most Bankrupt team in Automotive history?

Who was the last team to go bankrupt in F1?

You might also like to bear in mind where a lot of a certain Itallian teams design was done until recently which coincides with their most sucessful period in recent years ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

If you fancy a quick straw poll, ask 10 people today if they know who Max is and if they do, what they know about him. I'll do the same but answer honestly ;)

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So I asked a few people today and no one knew who was Max Mosley.
I guess I don't live within a representative group for motorsport enthusiasts. :)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

You might also like to bear in mind where a lot of a certain Itallian teams design was done until recently which coincides with their most sucessful period in recent years ;)

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Recently was 15 years ago?! :D
I would say it was the least successful period in their history!

Six pages of childish nonsense and this thread still hasn't been locked.

That's a bigger mystery than who set up Max.

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Originally Posted by ioan

So I asked a few people today and no one knew who was Max Mosley.

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I would suggest that those people could do with brushing up on their current affairs knowledge, to be honest.