Glock/Toyota paid off to slow on the last lap?[merged]

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Originally Posted by foxystoat

Yes he drove a better final sector than Glock ! just get over it

It only came down to the final corner because of the stewards fixing it for Massa to still be involved on the final race anyway.

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you talk about the stewards fixing it for Massa

Do not forget that if lewis was not in that team that macheats would have been banned from racing this year after spygate.

FIXING IT FOR LEW_SER

It's going to be a LOOOOOONG off-season... ;)

Wow, this must be the first ever rain-gamble that has actually paid off for Toyota. :D Although they got it a bit wrong in the beginning, when Trulli was called in at least a lap too late.

Toyota has also participated in clarifying the WDC winner - should be proud now or what? :p :

By the way, to those who are stunned why Glock lost by 2 secs to Trulli in the last sector - it doesn't matter, because Hamilton finished ahead of Glock by 6 seconds anyway.

I was thinking of opening up a Paranoia Forum, but everyone started questioning my motives...

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

well, i was reading. it just seemed that, instead of a conspiracy theory, the bleeding obvious needed to be stated. Occum's Razor (the hypothesis containing the fewest assumptions will almost certainly be the correct one) and all that.



My bias? Against whom? Against what? i take up a contrary position to you, ergo i am biased? god, what is it with this site and the inability to think before posting? try Occum's Razor again. you're making assumptions other than the obvious one: you're wrong.

I admit it. i am biased. biased against people who don't think before they post.

if you knew glock was setting fast times, you had access to F1's site or some other live timing site, in which case you could see his splits with his team mate. trulli had no interest in slowing down on the last lap, neither did glock.

dry tyres work reasonably in light wet, until they lose temperature (and, of course, until the standing water becomes more prevalent), then you are in a no-win downward spiral. the cooler weather and the standing water and the lower lateral grip levels and lighter brake loads all conspire to drag the tyre temp down and you cannot get it back again.

i suspect this is what happened to toyota as the rain got heavier.



the way hamilton moved for RK left a door ajar for vettel, who did a superb job to take it. a superstar of the future.

and, wow. on the second last lap RK was gambling on a safety car? i know kubica and he's not that stupid. I know Mario Theissen and he's not that stupid, either...

...that leaves one of you.

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I'm stupid for having an open mind on this subject? Some of us know Toyota are stuggling with the new KERS system, maybe information from McLaren on that system is why you pull a move like that, who knows there are many highly feasable reasons as to why and why not (I'm not really suggesting the entire Toyota corp. is getting paid off, there are individuals with lots of power in the sport that could PERHAPS have had a say in things). Like I said if you read what I've been saying I haven't gone on record and said this IS WHAT HAPPENED. Look at the amount of discussion going on, anyone that falls on the conspiracy side is in the minority. It's looking more and more like the opposite actually to me though (not a consiracy) yet I'd love to see Glocks split times to put the nail in the coffin (maybe not all the way though).

It is true that my father (who rarely watches F1) and myself both looked at each other and immediately thought something may be askew with that ending. It was almost too exciting to be true. There is room to make an argument here from either side. We need split times basically.

P.S This razor theory you found out about just says it's usually right. There's a key word there.

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

FFS Markabilly, he was just trying to stay on the road!

he said later he had no idea he was the keystone in the title race, so how that translates into helping hamilton i have no idea.

his lap time was no different to his team mate's and, given nobody else was on dry tyres, he's the only valid comparison.

Toyota didn't make a mistake by leaving him on dry tyres. It might have made him look silly at the end, but Toyota moved up one place because of it and that extra point is worth serious money. It was a very smart move.

Oh, and last point in Kubica unlapping himself: real good thinking, because in a race where he struggled to pass a braking point, he was thinking that in half a lap he could catch and pass Kimi, Alonso and Massa to get back on the lead lap? Please, people, think a bit before posting!

how can so many people look reason and reality in the face and come up with conspiracy?

only possible answer: because you want to.

why? because it's easier than doing what Massa so classily did: sucking it up and losing with dignity.

He is to be applauded. some folks here should be derided. if only the mods would let us...

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Calling for people to be booted in this discussion is just downright low, get over it, there's something to talk about here obviously, you are are aren't you. And lets say there is actually a conspiracy here... are those that believe there is a conspiracy going to think your evidence of 'well Glock didn't know he was the conerstone in the championship' would buy it??? That statement was a small waste of bandwidth... along with the statement to get rid of people from the forum (it's a public forum, you don't like it? Too bad... I personally think calling for a booting is crossing the line so I must voice that, but like I said it's a public forum). You can go ahead and bask in the glory of Hamilton winning and you can applaud him (as Massa has), but to expect everyone will act the same is ridiculous when it's a one point championship. It's already been a highly controversial championship, why can't it be now?

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Originally Posted by bowers

I'm stupid for having an open mind on this subject? Some of us know Toyota are stuggling with the new KERS system, maybe information from McLaren on that system is why you pull a move like that, who knows there are many highly feasable reasons as to why and why not (I'm not really suggesting the entire Toyota corp. is getting paid off, there are individuals with lots of power in the sport that could PERHAPS have had a say in things). Like I said if you read what I've been saying I haven't gone on record and said this IS WHAT HAPPENED. Look at the amount of discussion going on, anyone that falls on the conspiracy side is in the minority. It's looking more and more like the opposite actually to me though (not a consiracy) yet I'd love to see Glocks split times to put the nail in the coffin (maybe not all the way though).

It is true that my father (who rarely watches F1) and myself both looked at each other and immediately thought something may be askew with that ending. It was almost too exciting to be true. There is room to make an argument here from either side. We need split times basically.

P.S This razor theory you found out about just says it's usually right. There's a key word there.

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You should have stopped after the first two words of your post!! :D

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

And the CIA shot John F Kennedy.
Good grief. Charlie Brown.

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Let me fix that for you to make it more believable.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

And the FIA shot John F Kennedy.
Good grief. Charlie Brown.

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See my post under the flexible wings thread. ;)

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

See my post under the flexible wings thread. ;)

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Mine too!

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Originally Posted by bowers

I'm stupid for having an open mind on this subject?

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No, for not giving worthy consideration to what you were about to post.

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Originally Posted by bowers

Some of us know Toyota are stuggling with the new KERS system, maybe information from McLaren on that system is why you pull a move like that, who knows there are many highly feasable reasons as to why and why not (I'm not really suggesting the entire Toyota corp. is getting paid off, there are individuals with lots of power in the sport that could PERHAPS have had a say in things). Like I said if you read what I've been saying I haven't gone on record and said this IS WHAT HAPPENED. Look at the amount of discussion going on, anyone that falls on the conspiracy side is in the minority.

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couple of points. you KNOW toyota is struggling with KERS? you work for them, do you?
is this back pedalling or front pedalling? i don't quite know what you're trying not to say here, but if you're implying senior toyota personnel are on the take from mclaren, that's a big allegation backed up by, well, nothing.

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Originally Posted by bowers

It's looking more and more like the opposite actually to me though (not a consiracy) yet I'd love to see Glocks split times to put the nail in the coffin (maybe not all the way though).

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yet more proof that you're not thinking or reading before posting. the split times are already on this thread. page four. examine them, then think, then post.

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Originally Posted by bowers

It is true that my father (who rarely watches F1) and myself both looked at each other and immediately thought something may be askew with that ending. It was almost too exciting to be true. There is room to make an argument here from either side.

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watching the splits during the last lap, it was clear they would both catch glock.
what room to make an argument? that reality does not exist?
existentialism lives, and it's secretly ruling Formula One?

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Originally Posted by bowers

We need split times basically.

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you have them. read them. they're already here!

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Originally Posted by bowers

P.S This razor theory you found out about just says it's usually right. There's a key word there.Calling for people to be booted in this discussion is just downright low, get over it, there's something to talk about here obviously, you are are aren't you.

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when did i call for people to be booted?
your every written word makes you more worthy of what i actually said should happen: that the moderators should allow us to treat you with derision.

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Originally Posted by bowers

And lets say there is actually a conspiracy here... are those that believe there is a conspiracy going to think your evidence of 'well Glock didn't know he was the conerstone in the championship' would buy it??? That statement was a small waste of bandwidth...

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No? fancy me thinking that the words directly from the man at the centre of your personal storm would be relevant to this thread.
i apologise. profusely.

I will, in future, endeavour to remember that you prefer to remain in ignorance and sprout ludicrous theories based in fairyland than actually hear what the main players had to say.

he was actually happy that 1) he gained a place and 2) didn't crash.

in spite of what you think, he did a great job for his team to bring that car home at all.

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Originally Posted by bowers

along with the statement to get rid of people from the forum (it's a public forum, you don't like it? Too bad... I personally think calling for a booting is crossing the line so I must voice that, but like I said it's a public forum).

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not what i said. you're not even taking it out of context. you're inventing a word that i didn't use.

the word i used was, as explained, derision

de·ri·sion /dɪˈrɪʒən/ [di-rizh-uhn]
–noun 1. ridicule; mockery: The inept performance elicited derision from the audience.
2. an object of ridicule.

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Originally Posted by bowers

You can go ahead and bask in the glory of Hamilton winning and you can applaud him (as Massa has), but to expect everyone will act the same is ridiculous when it's a one point championship. It's already been a highly controversial championship, why can't it be now?

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what are you on about?

i have said plenty of times that i don't like hamilton as a human being, so don't make me to be some lewis lover.

it has been a highly controversial championship, you're right. most of that has been because of off-track decisions which contrived the one-point finale.

why would you want the last race to be controversial?

why can't you just accept that it was dramatic and leave it at that?

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

what are you on about?

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Maybe drugs?? :bandit:

So because you don't agree with someone you feel the mods should allow you to be derisive towards someone. How's about you just respectfully disagree rather than be rude and dismissive? You don't have to agree with someone but at least respect them and their opinion. If he was being racist or something equally unacceptable then I might join in and show some disrespect but i think this thread is perfectly fine. Perhaps it's wrong perhaps it's right.

I can't believe there is 4 pages on this topic.

The 2.2s can most likely be put down to a simple error. Driving on dry tyres on a wet track, its a 90% chance of a slip up somewhere.

I'm gutted Massa lost out too, but no point trying to find any excuses. Lewis won it fair and square.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I can't believe there is 4 pages on this topic.

The 2.2s can most likely be put down to a simple error. Driving on dry tyres on a wet track, its a 90% chance of a slip up somewhere.

I'm gutted Massa lost out too, but no point trying to find any excuses. Lewis won it fair and square.

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My post #86 is relevant!

Did anyone see Glocks driving after Hamilton overtook him? He was squirming about all over the place, he was lucky to stay on track!

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Originally Posted by Mark

Did anyone see Glocks driving after Hamilton overtook him? He was squirming about all over the place, he was lucky to stay on track!

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I noticed that. It actually looked as if his car had broken something, he was going so erratically.

Or perhaps the FIA had pushed the button to rig the title as they did last year ;)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Or perhaps the FIA had pushed the button to rig the title as they did last year ;)

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I was slightly suprised to see Bernie on the grid walk, talk about how hard it is to have a title to come down to the wire year after year, implying it was fixed. Was said in a jokingly manner of course, but still, the mind does wonder at times, especially with this years penalties.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I can't believe there is 4 pages on this topic.

The 2.2s can most likely be put down to a simple error. Driving on dry tyres on a wet track, its a 90% chance of a slip up somewhere.

I'm gutted Massa lost out too, but no point trying to find any excuses. Lewis won it fair and square.

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Sorry, I've just sobered up and had a right old laugh reading this crap.

Typical Troll doing some fishing and must be overjoyed with his catch.

ROTFLMFAO!!

:laugh:

It's a conspiracy I tell you. Toyota cant connect their KERS up without using McLarens Soldering Iron so stayed out on Drys to gain an extra place while helping Lewis.

Clear as mud :D

Lewis Hamilton is set to become the first billionaire sports star on the back of his world championship win, according to some UK newspapers.

Timo Glock is set to become the second.

;) :p

FFS people. We have a new champion. I would have loved for my man Massa to have won, but he did'nt. No conspiracy theories are needed. Well done Lewis. Now lets look to 2009 and the return of slicks!!!

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

you talk about the stewards fixing it for Massa

Do not forget that if lewis was not in that team that macheats would have been banned from racing this year after spygate.

FIXING IT FOR LEW_SER

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What the loser that's now WDC....okay.....

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Sorry, I've just sobered up and had a right old laugh reading this crap.

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:rolleyes:

Finally you know what I feel when I read your posts.

PS: I promised myself not to get involved in such debates till next season, but the way you treat fellow forum members made me brake my self-promise. I hope I won't have to do it another time before March 2009.

This is shocking. This forum is supposed to be all about free speech without being nasty or personal and that's all gone out the window. I don't entirely agree with the OP's thoughts but I do respect his right to say these things without getting accused of being a troll and people saying that the mods should allow them to ridicule the OP. When something questionable happens to your driver I hope you people get exactly the same treatment you bunch of so and so's.

Do we seriously think Glock is an out-and-out liar? Certainly not! Therefore, I don't see there's anything much to say here. He says there was nothing he could do and I believe him.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

This is shocking. This forum is supposed to be all about free speech without being nasty or personal and that's all gone out the window. I don't entirely agree with the OP's thoughts but I do respect his right to say these things without getting accused of being a troll and people saying that the mods should allow them to ridicule the OP. When something questionable happens to your driver I hope you people get exactly the same treatment you bunch of so and so's.

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:up:

Time for me to continue my hibernation.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

This is shocking. This forum is supposed to be all about free speech without being nasty or personal and that's all gone out the window. I don't entirely agree with the OP's thoughts but I do respect his right to say these things without getting accused of being a troll and people saying that the mods should allow them to ridicule the OP. When something questionable happens to your driver I hope you people get exactly the same treatment you bunch of so and so's.

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OP?

By the way, your post seems to have moved. It was definitely above my last one when I looked before!

:laugh: @ ioan and Daniel :laugh:

Dear o dear boys. Is that the best you have

You accuse people of making personal attacks by making ..... personal attacks.

Enjoy the hibernation :D

As for this silly conspiracy theory. I don't mind if people post this sort of stuff. I consider it Trolling because of it's absurdity and reserve the right to have a good old laugh at it.

Sorry if my decision to regard this accusation against Toyota as absurd incurs your wrath but that's life.

As for the personal comments by you 2, well, you're entitled to your opinion as am I :p

Whatever the personal views being expressed, can I just point out that there is no evidence at all for the very serious and frankly, outlandish accusation contained in the thread title? This seems to be going past some people.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Whatever the personal views being expressed, can I just point out that there is no evidence at all for the very serious and frankly, outlandish accusation contained in the thread title? This seems to be going past some people.

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I agree. But people are happy to accuse Max, the FIA and Ferrari of corruption without evidence and they don't get such treatment. Why should Glock and Toyota be any different? I've said I don't agree with the thoughts of the person who started the post but why oh why can people just not respect them?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

:laugh: @ ioan and Daniel :laugh:

Dear o dear boys. Is that the best you have

You accuse people of making personal attacks by making ..... personal attacks.

Enjoy the hibernation :D

As for this silly conspiracy theory. I don't mind if people post this sort of stuff. I consider it Trolling because of it's absurdity and reserve the right to have a good old laugh at it.

Sorry if my decision to regard this accusation against Toyota as absurd incurs your wrath but that's life.

As for the personal comments by you 2, well, you're entitled to your opinion as am I

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I've not made any personal attacks on you on this thread :confused: Can you provide some evidence? Some links perhaps? :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I agree. But people are happy to accuse Max, the FIA and Ferrari of corruption without evidence and they don't get such treatment. Why should Glock and Toyota be any different? I've said I don't agree with the thoughts of the person who started the post but why oh why can people just not respect them?

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This is true, but two wrongs don't make a right. I wish no-one would make unfounded allegations of corruption just because it fits in somehow with their opinions.

Time to get back to the topic guys.

If you feel the thread is stupid, or a troll, don bleebinging post in it then. If you feel some is a troll,don't feed him/her, it only make's you look like an bleebing bleeb in the process.

Don't forget that all the ECU's are made by McLaren, they will have sent a secret signal to Glocks car to make the engine go slow on the last lap.

It's true I tell you :bounce:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I agree. But people are happy to accuse Max, the FIA and Ferrari of corruption without evidence and they don't get such treatment. Why should Glock and Toyota be any different? I've said I don't agree with the thoughts of the person who started the post but why oh why can people just not respect them?

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Because it are just a road a codwarrop! :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

This is true, but two wrongs don't make a right. I wish no-one would make unfounded allegations of corruption just because it fits in somehow with their opinions.

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I agree. We're all guilty of saying things before we've though them through sometimes though aren't we?

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Because it are just a road a codwarrop! :rotflmao:

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Racist! Racist! :p

Ofcourse Iaon speaks to everyone properly.....

I don't like loosers especially bad loosers. Get a grip with all the points given to Ferrari this year, and with the huge fine that was hit on Merc they still cant beat Lewis.

Get over it now, Lewis won. Take it like a man like Ferrari and Massa have.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:rolleyes:

Finally you know what I feel when I read your posts.

PS: I promised myself not to get involved in such debates till next season, but the way you treat fellow forum members made me brake my self-promise. I hope I won't have to do it another time before March 2009.

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:laugh:

Well ioan old fruit, if my having a laugh at this sort of nonsense offends you, then so be it.

Have a nice nap and try not to break your promise again ;)