Sarah "Fredo" Palin: "I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by veeten

Boo Hoo Hoo!!! :bigcry: That mean old media hurt my feelings...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28573074/

:p :

---

Poor lil Sarah. Still whining about that mean ol' "gotcha media."

On one point I do agree with her though. I think there may be something of a class issue. While I wouldn't let my girlfriend go for a seaside drive with her uncle Teddy, nor would I want her cousin, Willie K., to take my girl on a moonlight walk (unless she was carrying mace), Caroline Kennedy doesn't bother me half as much as Sarah Palin. I'm not a HUGE fan of the Kennedy clan or their politics. So I have to ask myself, why is that? Call it elitism, classism or what have you. But no, I was not at all comfortable with having someone who appeared to be nothing more than ignorant, backward thinking, poorly educated, trailer trash being one heartbeat from the highest office in this great nation. For various reasons (in addition to that one), many libertarians, fiscal conservatives and the more intellectual (elitist?) wing of the GOP seemed to feel the same about Palin. Thank goodness the good Lord did not demonstrate that he had anymore of a sense of humor than he's had these past 8 years. I honestly don't know that this nation could have survived 2 or 3 years of a President Palin, should anything have happened to President McCain. Thank you, Lord!

This silly woman, much like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and Danica Patrick, remains in the media only because of the continuing Wasilla Hillbilly stories about her and her family: her knocked up, high school drop-out youngin' finally had her lil bundle of joy. Her youngin's self described "redneck, weed smoking" baby-daddy lost his job because it was learned that he was also a high school drop-out, and shouldn't have been given the job to begin with. Baby-daddy's mama (finally!) got served with a warrant for her arrest after she was caught dealing Oxycontin (known in the lower 48 as "Hillbilly Heroin"). I bet it's only a matter of time before there are stories that baby-daddy Levi has had a bad day, gets liquored up and starts bouncing Bristol around the living room like a basketball. Considering how these people seem to be, it would more surprise me not to eventually hear about that.

Caroline's worst trait (AFAIK) is that she says "you know" and "umm" much too much. And she sort of shuffles her feet when she walks (saw her in Georgetown years ago). That may be a health issue, so I don't mean to make fun of that. I don't think Caroline is really all that qualified to be a Senator (anymore than Sarah Palin was to be Vice President). But, like Sarah, she meets the Constitutional requirements for office. And she's written more books than Sarah's probably ever read. I'd also say that her IQ is a tad bit higher than Sarah's too. ;) But she's going to get the job (I believe) no matter what - even though some in the media are beginning to beat on her too. And the main reason I think she's going to get it is that she is the daughter of a murdered President and the niece of murdered Senator who have attained deity like stature in the U.S. and around the world. Many consider her family to be the closest thing that we have to (acceptable) royalty in the U.S. - and she's the "princess." Even if she wasn't dumber than a bag of hammers, Sarah is just a "commoner." And so, that's why I say that maybe Palin does have a point. And I won't often say that. Kinda hurt me just to say it once. :p :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Eki...Obama is a man of lame excuses. Just listen to his explainations for his friendships with Rev. Wright, William Ayers,Tony Rezko, and Illinois Governor Blagojevich. None of these relationships is harmful by themselves or one could be explained and even a right of center politician would have a hard time convincing me of anything evil.

---

I don't know them, and it's US internal affairs, so it's none of my business and I don't care.

Eki..if you don't know any of those people....you maybe should before you speak of how wonderful Obama is.

Rev. Wright is the black preacher who married Obama, Was his inspiration until tape was released of Wright giving a sermon blaming 9/11 on American greed and that white America is the scourge...oh ya and he said "God Damn America" on the first Sunday after 9/11. So Obama after 20 years of this close relationship was all the sudden saying he didn't hear any of this and that he was just a casual member of the church.

Tony Rezko was convicted of fraud and few other charges of illegal activities in Chicago. HE is the the guy who did real estate deals with the Obamas and the two are intertwined yet Obama says he just was a causal business acquaintance.

Blagojevich is the governor who was great buddies with Obama until it was seen that Blago was selling the Senate Seat (this caught on a court approved wire tap due to Blago's numerous fingers in a few illegal pies). Obama now disowns Blago.

Best of all William Ayers was not convicted and cannot be tried due to the concept of double jeopardy of being the leader in an organization that planted a bomb in the Pentagon and attempting to kill a policeman and his family in their Long Island home back in the late 60's and early 70's. William and his wife are friends of the Obama. William and his wife are radical left wing professors now at the University of Chicago and they helped launch Obama's career in politics.

The problem with all of these relationships isn't that Obama did anything wrong. It appears he is guilty only of knowing these people and doing business with them but there are no charges. The thing is though is he was very close to them UNTIL it was not politically expedient to be seen as knowing them. Now you can say once or twice maybe he is unfortuante in his choice in friends. But this is no accident. There is a lot of evidence that all of these people meant something to him and he would have to be a blind fool to not know the shady ideas or acts they had been part of. Now if you make friends with people like this...shouldn't one question his judgement?

Just a thought before anyone turns around and throws mud at Sarah Palin.

She actually has run something besides her mouth in the last 8 years and as Rudy Giuliani pointed out so aptly, she wasn't allowed to vote "present" 111 times as a legislator in the Illnois State house....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Rev. Wright is the black preacher who married Obama

---

holy schitt :eek: :eek:
just as well they never consumated their marriage ! :laugh:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

While I'm not the head of the Barack Obama Fan Club, I'm not aware that he and Rod Blagojevich were ever close friends. Blagojevich was trying to convince people early last year that he was in the Obama "circle of trust", as he was the first governor to endorse him for President. But Obama hasn't had anything to do with Blagojevich since mid 2007, last I read. Outside of their political association as Illinois Democrats, I'm not sure that they even liked each other. But I believe Obama began to distance himself from Blagojevich about the time that Blago stopped talking to the Lieutenant Governor, Pat Quinn. And that was some time in mid to late 2007.

I don't know much about Obama's relationship with Ayers, except that they both served at the Annenberg Challenge. But I know very well who Walter Annenberg was: a conservative Republican financier who was a very close friend of Ronald Reagan. In fact, it was Walter Annenberg who first introduced Ronald Reagan to Margaret Thatcher. Annenberg was fully aware of who William Ayers was when he was placed in his position at the Annenberg Challenge. And he did absolutely nothing to have him removed. So was Walter Annenberg a terrorist sympathizer? Personally, I found it amusing when Sarah Palin claimed that Obama "palled around with terrorists", when she was palling around with secessionists: the Alaska Independence Party. This is a party founded by a man not so different from Rev. Wright or William Ayers. Here is what the founder of the Alaska Independence Party, Joe Vogler, had to say prior to being murdered (while trying to sell illegal plastic expolsives - another mad bomber type): "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions. The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. I won't be buried under their damned flag...when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

Todd Palin belonged to this loveable, treasonous bunch for seven years (1995-2002), all while married to Sarah. He resigned his AIP membership only when it began to create some political heat on Sarah's backside. But Sarah Palin attended the 1994 AIP convention, where the party called for a draft constitution to secede from the United States and create an independent nation of Alaska. Even McCain (reluctantly) admitted during the campaign that Sarah had attended the 2000 AIP convention. After that, Sarah gave the keynote speech during the 2006 AIP convention. And last year, she recorded a video which was played during the AIP convention (see below). If a man like John Quincy Adams was in the White House now, instead of that.... "person" that we currently have, the Alaska Independence Party would have been rounded up by U.S. Marshals or the FBI as they stared down the barrels of M16's and MP5's. In the name of all that is good and holy, how and why did John McCain (who I greatly respected) pick this woman to be on a national ticket for Vice President of the United States of America???!!! She continues to pal around with secessionists, who were led by a criminal and a hater of what this nation stands for... and she wasn't 8 years old when the deeds went down. And she has not once distanced herself from anything that the AIP stands for!

Rezko was/is a crook. And I also believe Obama knew more than he told about that. Wright is likely a bigot at heart, but his church was not all about bigotry, as I have read. Whites did attend. And by his speech in Philadelphia(?) and his lifelong personal associations (like his mother and his grandparents), I don't see any sign that Obama is that kind of a divisive person... quite the contrary. So while I am not one of those who believes that Obama can or will walk on water, I sincerely believe that the right team is (will be) in the White House. I believe that Sarah Palin as VP would have been the worst thing to happen to the United States in its history, especially if McCain had died. How would a sitting Vice-President explain this "howdy do" to a bunch of treasonous, traitorous, anti-American secessionists?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI

Current AIP Chairwoman Lynette Clark says Alaska "should be an independent nation." Why hasn't Sarah Palin just done what Barack Obama did in relation to Wright and Ayers... or does Sarah believe in the AIP's mission to destroy the Union? I would not want a VP, and certainly not a President, that is not fully committed to the 50 State Union of the United States of America. I would not want a person in the Oval Office who might put us in a position that there might need to be a U.S. military response to an Executive decision to let one state do as it pleases. Until she can disavow herself from the Alaska Independence Party, Sarah Palin needs to continue representing no one but the people of Alaska, IMO.

interesting thought the AIP - I guess I really can't blame them. Alaskans don't need anyones help except for our military and we like to give that out freely so what do you expect from the richest state in the union. It won't ever happen in my lifetime and Sarah will continue to build a impressive track record and lets hope an pray Obama does that also. I have mixed opinions on the bailout. Lets see if my math is correct 3 trillion divided by 150 mil who work would give every taxpayer 20,000 in there pocket. So I think we should just up that by ten times - print the money and rock and roll.
That would be a stimulus package that would stimulate.

Jag, good points all. Ayers and his association with the Annenburg Challenge I wasn't aware of but it is a well circulated story that Obama and Ayers were much closer than Obama will admit now. If Ayers and his wife (also part of the same terrorist cell) are so harmless and Obama has nothing to be ashamed of, then why has he try to distance himself. Also...Ayers was in this challenge? He was also in Venezuela this past summer for some educational conference but he did meet with Chavez. This also makes Chavez a Reaganite?

Wright is the biggie and he has admitted to saying a lot more than Obama will admit he has said that is damaging in nature.

With Blago...the links are shallow I agree but I know Obama gave the guy an endorsment when he was running for Governor. ooops......

As for Palin and the AIP.....well I wont refute that and I wonder what gives there. I think personally the whole thing is rather harmless any hypothetical personally. If Todd Palin has a clue, he would have realized in his travels around the US this last fall what the country is like. The AIP I think is a fringe group of wannbe's. Unlike Ayer's little band of terrorists, AIP has broken no laws.

I didn't say Palin was a genius or the next President but a lot of conservative pundits and members of the general public have bought into her credibility. I personally think she needs to learn a bit more and was a bad pick on some levels but I refuse to believe she is as dim as her enemies (including some of the McCainiacs) would try to portray her. The gentleman who said that Alaska is littered with the political careers of people who underestimated her wasn't blowing smoke. She has a lot more on the ball than people will give her credit for, and she was/is a Governor.

She is used to being in charge and making decisions. You can praise Obama all you like, he is a tremendous speaker and he has shown some inkling of taking the party to the center, but I do not think for a second he has any real clue of just how hard this next 4 years is going to be. I wish him well, I hope he proves me wrong but I just cannot have the faith in a guy whose greatest accomplishments in actually running anything are his community organzing, and his getting elected to office. Being a politician is one thing, but being a leader and administrator is something you don't get as a Senator, and certainly not as one who spent most of his only 4 years in the US Senate plotting to take down Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

We wont even get into the joke that is Joe Biden.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Eki..if you don't know any of those people....you maybe should before you speak of how wonderful Obama is.

Rev. Wright is the black preacher who married Obama, Was his inspiration until tape was released of Wright giving a sermon blaming 9/11 on American greed and that white America is the scourge...oh ya and he said "God Damn America" on the first Sunday after 9/11. So Obama after 20 years of this close relationship was all the sudden saying he didn't hear any of this and that he was just a casual member of the church.

Tony Rezko was convicted of fraud and few other charges of illegal activities in Chicago. HE is the the guy who did real estate deals with the Obamas and the two are intertwined yet Obama says he just was a causal business acquaintance.

Blagojevich is the governor who was great buddies with Obama until it was seen that Blago was selling the Senate Seat (this caught on a court approved wire tap due to Blago's numerous fingers in a few illegal pies). Obama now disowns Blago.

Best of all William Ayers was not convicted and cannot be tried due to the concept of double jeopardy of being the leader in an organization that planted a bomb in the Pentagon and attempting to kill a policeman and his family in their Long Island home back in the late 60's and early 70's. William and his wife are friends of the Obama. William and his wife are radical left wing professors now at the University of Chicago and they helped launch Obama's career in politics.

The problem with all of these relationships isn't that Obama did anything wrong. It appears he is guilty only of knowing these people and doing business with them but there are no charges. The thing is though is he was very close to them UNTIL it was not politically expedient to be seen as knowing them. Now you can say once or twice maybe he is unfortuante in his choice in friends. But this is no accident. There is a lot of evidence that all of these people meant something to him and he would have to be a blind fool to not know the shady ideas or acts they had been part of. Now if you make friends with people like this...shouldn't one question his judgement?

Just a thought before anyone turns around and throws mud at Sarah Palin.

She actually has run something besides her mouth in the last 8 years and as Rudy Giuliani pointed out so aptly, she wasn't allowed to vote "present" 111 times as a legislator in the Illnois State house....

---

So? I kind of agree with Rev. Wright to some point, the US should look at the mirror some time, and others seem to be rather insignificant compared to torture and other war crimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eki

So? I kind of agree with Rev. Wright to some point, the US should look at the mirror some time, and others seem to be rather insignificant compared to torture and other war crimes.

---

Why am I NOT surprised? You defend people who do a lot of heinous things at times Eki so your agreeing with just a big mouth with a lot of dumb views should be right up your alley....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fousto

interesting thought the AIP - I guess I really can't blame them. Alaskans don't need anyones help except for our military and we like to give that out freely so what do you expect from the richest state in the union.

---

I personally have no sympathy or empathy for anti-American groups. Not everything that David Duke said was based in racism. He actually had a number of good ideas on government. But his Klan origins prevented him from getting a clear voice. He was not given a free pass, even though he had some "good ideas". I don't see why the AIP or the Palins should get one either. If any of these people don't like living under the flag of this nation, here is a solution: leave.

Quote:

---

It won't ever happen in my lifetime

---

It won't happen in their lifetimes either. Should the AIP at some point secure enough support, or should they engage in any violent acts to secure their "independence", Federal troops would put them back in their place. And at that stage, the group would likely be outlawed and its leaders jailed. Again, if a man such as John Quincy Adams was President, this group would already be dancing on thin ice.

Quote:

---

and Sarah will continue to build a impressive track record and lets hope an pray Obama does that also.

---

Yes, I also want what's best for our nation. I'm not in anyone's fan club. IMO, Palin's poltical future depends on whether or not she makes it to the Senate. Her term as governor ends next year. I'm sure the Democrats hope that she continues to see herself as a leader within the GOP. Unlike the kid glove treatment that the Obama campaign gave her as a #2, she would be fair game at the top of the ticket. People think the media was tough on her this time, imagine all the dirt that is under this woman's fingernails that would be magnified. She and her family are like the gift that just keeps on giving. By 2012, it's hard to say what else will come out.

Quote:

---

I have mixed opinions on the bailout. Lets see if my math is correct 3 trillion divided by 150 mil who work would give every taxpayer 20,000 in there pocket. So I think we should just up that by ten times - print the money and rock and roll.
That would be a stimulus package that would stimulate.

---

I also have mixed opinions about the various packages. The initial (true) bailout that Paulson demanded has been poorly handled. On that one, the taxpayers were duped, IMO. We did nothing more than provide capital funding for banks, so that they could either survive or grow through acquisitions. The Fed is using its balance sheet to inject capital and attempt to stimulate demand. Many in the GOP want tax breaks for businesses. Normally I'm in favor of that. But our problem now is with demand, not supply. At this time, demand has ceased to meet our capacity to produce - the auto industry is a good micro example of where the macro economy finds itself. Until people start buying cars again, it really doesn't matter what GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. do. Course, you can start cutting prices, again, again and again. When that happens, deflation often occurs, which is much harder to cure than inflation. And massive layoffs usually follow.

It's a scary time. I don't know how this is going to play out or how long it's going to take. I just know that it's scary. I'm more comfortable having Obama in than McCain. John McCain admitted that his understamding and comprehension of economic issues was not very strong. Plus, Phil Gramm was one of John's key advisors. Gramm was the primary backer of a deregulatory finance bill which helped land us in the mess that we currently find ourselves. And all jokes aside, Sarah Palin could have done absolutely nothing to help McCain on that front. Economists from the fiscal left to the right have given Obama very high marks thus far for the team he has assembled. And his outside advisors, like Warren Buffett, are equally as impressive. I think we have the best available generals to fight this war - so yes, let's see how we do.

Jag...The media couldn't do any more to Palin and her family than they already did. Trust me...they spent millions demonizing this woman.....sent people all over Alaska looking for dirt.

Sarah and her family are like a lot of families...sorta dysfunctional and real. The more they attack her family and herself...the greater sympathy she may garner.....

The best way the Democrats could neutralize Palin is to have Obama be a roaring success. Since I am on the fence more so than yourself on this score, we shall see.

I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is, but he might manage to muddle through. God knows he has a little more decorum than Bill Clinton so there is a start anyhow...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Jag, good points all. Ayers and his association with the Annenburg Challenge I wasn't aware of but it is a well circulated story that Obama and Ayers were much closer than Obama will admit now.

---

That's where Obama and Ayers first met. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't know each other before that. It's quite possible that their association was closer than what Obama will now admit. But he condemned Ayers' actions with the Weather Underground.

Quote:

---

If Ayers and his wife (also part of the same terrorist cell) are so harmless and Obama has nothing to be ashamed of, then why has he try to distance himself.

---

I can't answer that. One possibility is they weren't that close to begin with. Sort of like the rumor that Palin (Sarah) was herself in the AIP, there are various rumors that Obama's political career was launched in Ayers' livingroom. Yet, there is no proof of that. But the rumor does continue to make the rounds on right wing websites and blogs... like the one about Obama being born in Africa. There is also no proof that Sarah was ever in the AIP and as far as I know, the Ayers family was not the true spark that launched Obama's career in politics. I think he supported Obama, but so did many others. Ayers isn't rich. And Ayers isn't anyone important on the Southside of Chicago. Obama needed money. And Obama needed a base on the Southside. Ayers was never in a position to provide either. Maybe there is more there, but I'm just not aware of it.

Quote:

---

Also...Ayers was in this challenge? He was also in Venezuela this past summer for some educational conference but he did meet with Chavez. This also makes Chavez a Reaganite?

---

Yes, Ayers and Obama both served within the Annenberg Challenge. Walter Annenberg was a conservative - not a "neocon", but a conservative. But he was also a great philanthropist. He's dead now, but he funded a good many community based organizations around the U.S. The Annenberg Challenge was one of those. What I'm saying is, the Annenberg Challenge was not about promoting any particular political point of view. It was a public school reform project.

Quote:

---

Wright is the biggie and he has admitted to saying a lot more than Obama will admit he has said that is damaging in nature.

---

I guess I see it differently. Compared to his mother and his grandparents, I'd say that Jeremiah Wright was a minor influence on Obama's character. What would bother me more is if after Wright's speeches became public, Obama had appeared in the church or taped a message telling Wright what a fine job he was doing. I didn't vote for Rev. Wright. And I wouldn't have voted for Obama if I thought he held the same views as Wright. I have found absolutely nothing about Obama to suggest that he is that sort of person. As I said, eveything about him suggests that he is quite the opposite of that type of person. Which does make his relationship with Wright odd. But since he didn't disown his mother, his grandparents or any of his White friends, I give that one a big shrug. And, whether for political saftey or not, he did disown Wright and gave, what most consider to be an amazing speech on the topic. But I think that's the predicament that Palin will find herself, should she ever seek to top a national ticket. There is nothing that Sarah has said to indicate that she objects to the anti-Americanism of the AIP - nothing at all. My theory on this is: since Obama was not from Chicago, and he was an Ivy Leaguer, new to town, he needed an "in". I have read that Obama's problem in Chicago was initially that he was portrayed by ex-Black Panther Bobby Rush as "not Black enough". What credibility would he have on the Southside of Chicago? So he joined a church that would give him some "street cred", as the kiddies say these days. It's not like he joined the El Rukns street gang and mugged people in his spare time. But in what I've read of both groups, I have found nothing (in total) about the basis of Trinity that is nearly as radical or anti-American as what I've found about the Alaska Independence Party. Are we to consider Joe Vogler's words acceptable, while only those of Rev. Wright are objectionable? Sarah Palin seems to think so, as she has never condemned or distanced herself from the anti-American words spoken by Vogler and others within the AIP. I continue to find that extremely troubling.

Quote:

---

With Blago...the links are shallow I agree but I know Obama gave the guy an endorsment when he was running for Governor. ooops......

---

Yeah, but might that just be party politics? Bush endorsed McCain but they're about as from from being friends as me and "Defender". But I've never heard Obama and Blagojevich described as actual friends. But I really don't know.

Quote:

---

As for Palin and the AIP.....well I wont refute that and I wonder what gives there. I think personally the whole thing is rather harmless any hypothetical personally. If Todd Palin has a clue, he would have realized in his travels around the US this last fall what the country is like. The AIP I think is a fringe group of wannbe's. Unlike Ayer's little band of terrorists, AIP has broken no laws.

---

At the point that they promote treason, I believe that is still punishable by the death penalty in the U.S. It's debatable as to whether or not they have crossed that line. But Joe Vogler was killed while conducting an illegal sale of explosives. Not exactly a boy scout troop. Personally, I believe we give certain groups too much leeway in the U.S. these days, but that's another matter. But let's say the AIP hasn't broken any laws. Wright has broken no laws (that I'm aware of). Ayers has broken no laws (not since Obama was 8 years old). Obama hasn't given either Ayers or Wright a tenth the support that Palin has given to an admitted anti-American group. I really do have a problem with that. That her husband was actually a member of such a group, and she contiued to offer them a kind word as late as last year amazes me. That's one of the key reasons that I've become as incredibly anti-Palin as I have. If her husband belonged to an anti-American group and she speaks in their favor, then clearly I must assume that she shares those views. If Obama was speaking favorably about the Black Panthers, I'd feel the same about him.

Quote:

---

I didn't say Palin was a genius or the next President but a lot of conservative pundits and members of the general public have bought into her credibility. I personally think she needs to learn a bit more and was a bad pick on some levels but I refuse to believe she is as dim as her enemies (including some of the McCainiacs) would try to portray her. The gentleman who said that Alaska is littered with the political careers of people who underestimated her wasn't blowing smoke. She has a lot more on the ball than people will give her credit for, and she was/is a Governor.

---

Sarah is learning what many of us learn when we come from a small town or a small state (population wise): it's a lot easier to be a big fish in a small pond than even a small fish in a big pond. IMO, Sarah's future hinges on getting Alaska's U.S. Senate seat. Without that, she will struggle to remain in the national spotlight until 2012. And her recent treatment at the Republican Governors conference tells me that, while she has many extreme right wing supporters in the ranks, there are those in the GOP who will do to her what was done to Julius Caesar given the chance. She better make sure that Karl Rove lands in her camp. If not, she may suffer the same fate as John McCain did in 1999. The family and its issues (real or created) are not off limits to Rove's shock troops. And the "truth" is whatever Herr Rove's propaganda machine says it is. Sarah has absolutley no idea what it's like to be (really) smeared. McCain survived it. Maybe Sarah can do it too. But unlike McCain, she remains a pretty divisive political figure. At the top of a ticket, the pro-choice women will seek to tear her a new one. And I expect a viable third party if the Evangelicals and neocons keep getting their way in the GOP. People like me will vote for that party, if not for the Democrats.

Quote:

---

She is used to being in charge and making decisions. You can praise Obama all you like, he is a tremendous speaker and he has shown some inkling of taking the party to the center, but I do not think for a second he has any real clue of just how hard this next 4 years is going to be. I wish him well, I hope he proves me wrong but I just cannot have the faith in a guy whose greatest accomplishments in actually running anything are his community organzing, and his getting elected to office. Being a politician is one thing, but being a leader and administrator is something you don't get as a Senator, and certainly not as one who spent most of his only 4 years in the US Senate plotting to take down Hillary Clinton and John McCain.

---

Well, Sarah didn't even know what the constitutional duties of the Vice President were. But generally, I think what you are saying is true: the difference between being an administrator and a politician. But I still prefer a "politician" with an obvious level of high intelligence over an "administrator" with questionable political ties and a debatable level of intelligence and world knowledge. The people of this nation have not seen anything like what we're seeing now in our lifetimes. Whether Obama or McCain, and certainly Palin, I doubt any of them could be fully prepared for the challenges of the office at this time. His politics are to the left of my own. But I have to admit, I like Obama's style and most of his actions thus far. Whether it's an act or not, the guy doesn't flinch. And the nation needs to see that the guy at the top isn't some shoot from the hip, nervous Nellie, whack job. It's the Senate and Congressional Democrats that concern me... Those boys are girls are the same nutty bunch that they've always been.

Quote:

---

We wont even get into the joke that is Joe Biden.....

---

On that we agree. I have never had any use for Joe Biden. Had McCain picked someone like Kay Bailey Hutchinson instead of Palin, I believe he could have had an effective running mate who could have taken on Obama and Biden, without the need for basic prep or fear that she'd go rogue at any moment. Maybe he would have still lost, but Kay could have gotten more female votes than Sarah did, and being from Texas, I think the base would have still supported her. What I've noticed about Biden is that lately he has been as silent as a kid at Christmas dinner sitting at the adults' table.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Jag...The media couldn't do any more to Palin and her family than they already did. Trust me...they spent millions demonizing this woman.....sent people all over Alaska looking for dirt.

Sarah and her family are like a lot of families...sorta dysfunctional and real. The more they attack her family and herself...the greater sympathy she may garner.....

---

I don't think it's the media that will go after her. The Obama campaign never targeted Palin. They pretty much ignored her. They even had Biden lay back so it would look like he was beating up on a woman. But if at the top of the ticket, Obama can go after Palin the same as he went after Hillary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

I don't think it's the media that will go after her. The Obama campaign never targeted Palin. They pretty much ignored her. They even had Biden lay back so it would look like he was beating up on a woman. But if at the top of the ticket, Obama can go after Palin the same as he went after Hillary.

---

Palin will wait and run against "true royalty" Caroline Kennedy for prez:

Q "why are you better qualified than Sara Paylain for president:

..."like err i sort of think...you know, so it ...well I am smarter, you know uh then Palin, cause well like you know, everyone thinks, you know, so, like I am...."
Q: Why do you want to be prez?

"well like you know I was just like sort of you know thinking about that so i just sort of thought you know...... maybe err......and those ...er oh, secret service ...guys, they are like you know real cute....and some of uh uh them...like to stand really close ohh me....."

**********

Q: Why are you better qualified than Caroline Kennedy:

"I am smart, not dumb like everyone says, and I am a socceer mom who has raised great kids and all this stuff about raising kids who get laid with a baby in the oven at 16, then marry the sons of drug dealers, well that is just an unfair media attack on my family......and just one good look at me, and you know Caroline could never make it with a bowling ball and a garden hose like me, so you know who the secret service really wants "

Sarah "Fredo Corleone" Palin vs. Caroline "The Valley Girl" Kennedy for POTUS.

Yep, the end is near. Save yourselves! Save yourselves! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Jag...The media couldn't do any more to Palin and her family than they already did.

---

They could have done no better than she managed to do herself. People do not just become objects of international ridicule for no reason, nor because of large amounts of money being spent on campaigns against someone. Sarah Palin brought that ridicule on herself.

Couldn't have said it better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

They could have done no better than she managed to do herself. People do not just become objects of international ridicule for no reason, nor because of large amounts of money being spent on campaigns against someone. Sarah Palin brought that ridicule on herself.

---

Don't be so sure. She wasn't the VP candidate 5 days and OK magazine had a rather demaning headline about her on the cover. She hasn't said much more than "Hi..I am glad to be here" and she was getting slagged.

The media bias that MSNBC admitted to and how they covered this campaign was epically ridiculous. I do agree most candidates bring on some of the abuse themselves and Sarah made a few mistakes. I put a lot of that on McCain's minions overcoaching her. Her interview Katie Couric did her no favours.

I am just pointing out that Palin didn't really say ANYTHING of consequence for the first week she was a VP candidate and by the time the Convention in MN started the media had the hole dug and were waiting to slide her INTO it.....

There was a gaff prone doofus in this campaign running for VP (Get up...oh god love ya.....I guess we are all standing for ya) named Joe Biden and ole Joe has been around 3 decades and was let off on a lot of dumb things he said. I don't think for a second Joe is dumb but he made gaffes that someone with his years shouldn't be making. Palin at least has the excuse of being JUST a hockey mom 8 years ago....

OK magazine. LOL
Cable news isn't unbiased... Who would have thought it possible? LOL

Oh the evil. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

The media bias that MSNBC admitted to and how they covered this campaign was epically ridiculous. ....

---

I've never seen MSNBC, however I have seen the 'unbiased' offerings from murdoch's media empire and would gladly bet that faux news would never admit to any bias.....

McCain announced Palin as his VP pick on the Friday before the Republican convention started on Monday. Other than knowing that she was the female governor of Alaska, I didn't really hear anything else (good or bad) about Palin in the mass media that weekend. It was such a surprise to most everyone, I recall that people on both sides were still just trying to gain information about her.

After she gave her "lipstick on a pitbull" speech, I remember telling someone, "Well, McCain should have a slam dunk by picking her." But no one really knew much about Sarah. People were just beginning to dig (for good and bad). I was watching CNN and Kay Bailey Hutchinson was interviewed after Palin's speech. Anderson Cooper asked Hutchinson what she thought of Palin. Kay (who should have been the VP pick, IMO), said, "To be honest, I don't know very much about her. But maybe that's a good thing... I just don't know very much about her." I think those were very prophetic words. The McCain campaign did get something like a 5 point bounce shortly thereafter, and I think he led the polls at that point. But Sarah was hidden away like someone in Witness Protection right after the convention. Then they let her out. And the economy got worse. And Sarah started talking... more and more. The Katie Couric interview has to be one of the worst interviews in the history of politics. By the time they showed Part 2, it was like some surrealistic short film. Like one of those fake documentaries you see on the Independent Film Channel or Sundance... it couldn't be real. Tina Fey and Saturday Night Live made it even worse. And then the economy got even worse and the stock market began to tank. And McCain started acting strange. As I recall, Sarah's numbers posted a serious reversal about then, and her negatives soon passed her positives with the public, including females. I don't think her numbers bottomed out until her debate with Biden. But by then, Obama had passed McCain and was building a lead.

As much as I remember hearing about how Sarah helped McCain with "the base", I also remember Sarah going from a net positive with female voters to a net negative with female voters. As far as I know, Sarah delivered not ONE state that McCain was not already poised to win. At best, she may have helped him have a bigger margin of victory in states like West Virgina, Alaska, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia. But she sure didn't help him in Virgina or North Carolina. And the loss of those formerly red states was a big black eye for the GOP.

This I hadn't heard about before. Jonathan Bush (President George's 1st cousin), Chairman & CEO of Athenahealth, Inc. is on CNBC right now. It turns out he voted for Obama! :eek: He said he's been a lifelong Republican and he was in the "anybody but Hillary camp" going into the primaries (I'm with him so far :) ). When asked about why he voted for Obama instead of McCain, what did he list as one of his reasons? Sarah Palin. For someone who was compared so much to his cuz, I would have thought he'd have liked Sarah. But it looks like Sarah helped to convince him to also get in that long line of former Bush voters who went for the Dem this time. Welcome to the club, Jonathan. :wave:

On another note, this guy is a hoot! The guy seems like he's very sharp, but he's also very animated and pretty funny. Apart from his feelings on Palin, the guy is very entertaining and quick witted. Finally, a Bush that I like. :D The CNBC guys are going on & on about how entertaining his interview was, and are promising to try to make him a regular. I hope they do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

This I hadn't heard about before. Jonathan Bush (President George's 1st cousin), Chairman & CEO of Athenahealth, Inc. is on CNBC right now. It turns out he voted for Obama! :eek: He said he's been a lifelong Republican and he was in the "anybody but Hillary camp" going into the primaries (I'm with him so far :) ). When asked about why he voted for Obama instead of McCain, what did he list as one of his reasons? Sarah Palin. For someone who was compared so much to his cuz, I would have thought he'd have liked Sarah. But it looks like Sarah helped to convince him to also get in that long line of former Bush voters who went for the Dem this time. Welcome to the club, Jonathan. :wave:

On another note, this guy is a hoot! The guy seems like he's very sharp, but he's also very animated and pretty funny. Apart from his feelings on Palin, the guy is very entertaining and quick witted. Finally, a Bush that I like. :D The CNBC guys are going on & on about how entertaining his interview was, and are promising to try to make him a regular. I hope they do.

---

He might be a Republican next election..who knows? Just know that CNBC or MSNBC wouldn't have put him on if he wasn't dissing the Republicans. Whereas on Fox I saw Geraldine Ferraro on with O'Reilly and others on a regular basis. Not to mention Lanny Davis and other prominent Democrat guys. This guy has it together from the sounds of it but when it comes to the last election, he didn't make the choice because his political philsophy changed, I just think he is one of many that likes Obama. He has charisma, no two ways about. I just think he is going to be found wanting at some point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

He might be a Republican next election..who knows? Just know that CNBC or MSNBC wouldn't have put him on if he wasn't dissing the Republicans. Whereas on Fox I saw Geraldine Ferraro on with O'Reilly and others on a regular basis. Not to mention Lanny Davis and other prominent Democrat guys. This guy has it together from the sounds of it but when it comes to the last election, he didn't make the choice because his political philsophy changed, I just think he is one of many that likes Obama. He has charisma, no two ways about. I just think he is going to be found wanting at some point.

---

I'd never heard of Jonathan Bush before. I thought he was hella entertaining though! Now that's a Bush that I'd like to have a drink or three with. I think he's still a Republican - I doubt that changes. I was just pointing out that Palin wasn't someone (even as the President's cousin) that he could support. But to be honest, he didn't seem to have any love for McCain either. Sounds like he got a 2 for 1 negative with those two. He fully admited that his decision was based on emotion.

If he'd been on MSNBC, I'd say you're right. MSNBC is the polar opposite of Fox News (PMSNBC and Faux News as many say :D ). Two sides of the same coin, IMO. But CNBC doesn't, and has never shown a distinct bias toward any party or political philosophy. Though Charlie Gasparino is about as far right fiscally as you can get. People are starving in the streets? Tough. That just reduces the surplus population. In the early 80's I met Bill Griffith, Sue Herrera and John Bollinger (created the "Bollinger bands" technical indicator) when the channel (FNN) was still a struggling mini cable channel in L.A. in the early 80's. They were nobodies at a nobody channel. So I'd hang out at the studio when my uncle would take me down every week or so. I haven't seen any of them since FNN sold out to NBC. But to this day, I couldn't tell you what Bill or Sue's political persuasion is - and that's the way it should be with (true) journalists. The only thing I know is, Sue was schmoking hawt in the early/mid 80's. Sue could light a guy's cigarette just by walking by him. And when I met this funny little Jewish man named Ira Epstein, as he was taping a commercial for the show, I should have kept his card and called him later - Dummy Move #171 on my part. Anyway... Bloomberg is pretty apolitical too (IMO). The only financial news channel that seems to really show its cards is Fox Business News. That's why I'm disappointed that Murdoch is poised to take over Dow Jones. I want the facts (and nothing but the facts) in order to help me make decisions, not political or religious spin and commentary on business news channels.

Sarah Palin seeks to "pal around" with a foreign born, terrorist sympathizing, Socialist dictator!

Reported on Fox News, so it must be true. :dozey:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...es-talk-obama/

Jag...you are being intellectually dishonest now. You know damned well Palin has never accused Obama of being foreign...lol

I keep telling you she isn't as dumb as you keep thinking she is....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Sarah Palin seeks to "pal around" with a foreign born, terrorist sympathizing, Socialist dictator!

Reported on Fox News, so it must be true. :dozey:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...es-talk-obama/

---

I think Ed Rendell called it best after the Governors Conference: "She's no genius, but she has great political instincts", or something to that effect.

I wouldn't so much say that she's "dumb", as just somewhat ignorant of certain basic and fundamental things that a person of her age and political station should know by now. I think her challenge now is keeping her name in the air while she plans her next move. That's what this new SarahPAC will help her do. That's what mugging for the camera will do while she's at the Alfalfa dinner, trying to get close enough to Obama so reporters will ask her what "important things" she was discussing with him. I mean, that's what politicians do. I bet John McCain wanted to sink a dagger in George W. Bush and Karl Rove after the '99/2000 primary season - and rightly so. But by 2007/08, they were seen embracing. I'm not wired that way... it's hard for me to get my head around being able to do that. What do they say? Politics makes strange bedfellows.

As funny as I find her and as much as I love to poke fun at her, I admit that she seems to be learning how things work in the big leagues of politics. I doubt she allows herself to be interviewed again nationally if a subject is going to be covered that she is unprepared for. Either she'll be better prepared or she'll stay quiet. What she once referred to as "gotcha journalism" is just how it works, especially for conservatives. Right or wrong, she will have to overcome her reputation as an intellectual lightweight if she is going to reach the big chair. I don't think she's going to make it that far - because there are Republicans who want the exact same thing that she wants. But I think she might make it to the U.S. Senate and might establish herself as a power in the GOP in the years to come.

Hey, I'm one of the people who said that Danica Patrick would never win a race, if there was more than two cars running at the finish. But The Danica proved me wrong last year. So I'll give any dog his (her) due if they come back with a rabbit. I'll never support Sarah as long as she represents the Evangelical, neoconservative wing of the GOP. But I can respect a person with whom I don't agree, if they can at least articulate their views with clarity and confidence.

So there may come that day when I can say that I respect Sarah Palin, even if I don't agree with her. Hey, Danica Patrick won an actual car race... so anything is possible! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

What she once referred to as "gotcha journalism" is just how it works, especially for conservatives.

---

I remain very wary of the view that journalists are somehow to blame for asking unreasonable questions of someone like Sarah Palin. There are good reasons why she and others get asked what are described as 'gotcha questions', while other politicians are not. Don't get me wrong, I do think some political interviewing can be unreasonable, but politicians and other public figures who end up looking stupid in interviews largely have themselves to blame.

I think journalists can always ask questions that put politicians in a corner if they choose, but often they don't because it is often a career limiting move. Palin dodged a few tough interviewers because her "people" being supplied by the McCain organization steered to people like Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric. Of course...she wasn't up to the grilling they gave her (most of it was very fair IMO but she wasn't prepared mainly because the braintrust didn't want her to state what she really thought if it didn't jive with the McCain platform. That kind of is a limitation is it not?)and she looked stupid at some point. She was over coached and under coached all at the same time. Truth is, we will see in the next 4 years whether she has it or not.

All I know is the bodies of people who underestimated her lie all over Alaska in a metaphorical sense. She has a high approval rating in a state where people dont' suffer fools gladly. You have to respect that and I think in the end you will see her end up making a splash at some point in the future.

As for your fear of her being an evangelical supporter Jag, I will just point out this: She is pro-family and anti-abortion. That doesn't make her some religious nut, she is just matching the views of about half of America. Demonizing people for asking families to try to stay together and facing their responsibilities isn't a bad thing. Sorry...it just isn't. The minute you make Abortion so acceptable that there is no stigmatism to it is to say "be an idiot...that is ok with us"...and the truth is, it isn't. Palin is just another person that believes in that.

I don't think legalized abortion is going away no matter what someone who disagress thinks but it shouldn't be a take out item like going to McDonalds either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

I think journalists can always ask questions that put politicians in a corner if they choose, but often they don't because it is often a career limiting move.

---

What I would add to this is that the interviewing of US politicians remains much, much more tame than that in the UK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

As for your fear of her being an evangelical supporter Jag, I will just point out this: She is pro-family and anti-abortion. That doesn't make her some religious nut, she is just matching the views of about half of America. Demonizing people for asking families to try to stay together and facing their responsibilities isn't a bad thing. Sorry...it just isn't. The minute you make Abortion so acceptable that there is no stigmatism to it is to say "be an idiot...that is ok with us"...and the truth is, it isn't. Palin is just another person that believes in that.

I don't think legalized abortion is going away no matter what someone who disagress thinks but it shouldn't be a take out item like going to McDonalds either.

---

From an interview on ABC, here are Palin's views on abortion:

Quote:

---

Palin took a harder line than McCain on those social issues, but called her sentiments "personal opinion[s]" that could potentially differ from official policy in a McCain White House.

McCain supports abortion in instances of rape or incest, but Palin, a mother of a 5-month-old infant with Down syndrome, said she would advocate abortion only if a mother's life was in danger. <emphasis added by poster>

"My personal opinion is that abortion should be allowed if the life of the mother is endangered. Please understand me on this. I do understand McCain's position on this. I do understand others who are very passionate about this issue who have a differing opinion," she said.

---

Here is data from the Knights of Colombus (hardly a liberal or pro-choice group) website:

Quote:

---

The poll was conducted for the Knights of Columbus by the Marist College Institute of Public Opinion between Sept. 24 and Oct. 3, 2008, and was designed to enable comparisons of the views of Catholic voters with those of the general electorate.

The poll asked respondents to state which of six statements came closest to describing their opinion on abortion.

• 8 percent of U.S. residents chose option 1, that abortion should be available to a woman any time she wants one during her entire pregnancy;

• 8 percent chose option 2, that abortion should be allowed only during the first 6 months of pregnancy;

• 24 percent chose option 3, that abortion should be allowed only during the first 3 months of pregnancy;

• 32 percent chose option 4, that abortion should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother;

• 15 percent chose option 5, that abortion should be allowed only to save the life of the mother; <note emphasis above showing Palin claims this is also her position>

• 13 percent chose option 6, that abortion should never be permitted under any circumstance.

---

You've singled out one portion of what I actually posted, which was: "I'll never support Sarah as long as she represents the Evangelical, neoconservative wing of the GOP."

It's not a make or break issue for me but I am generally not in favor of abortion. My personal view on the subject is closer to that of John McCain - though I would also include girls under the age of 15 or 16, when accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. But Palin's position is not in line with half of America. If you combine her position with the respondents who are not in favor of abortion under any circumstances, at most, you get 28%.

But again, it's the wing of the party that Palin represents that would prevent me from ever supporting her: the so called "loyal base" that remains within the GOP is mostly Evangelicals and neocons. I'm not sure where you get that I am demonizing anyone for wanting families to stay together, or that abortions should be freely available. There is now, and will be for the next few years, a war of sorts within the GOP, to see what philosophy leads going forward. There are many camps. Not all Evangelicals are neocons, but they began to make camp together in the mid 90's. So the social conservatives and New World order types won. And the fiscal conservatives and social libertarians began to lose seats at the table about the same time. I'd like to see that change.

Palin likes to refer to herself as a "fiscal conservative." But her spending increases and embrace of a windfall profits taxes violates a key principle of fiscal conservatism. I believe that's one reason that Pat Buchanan was so wishy-washy when asked what he thought of Palin. He has the same disdain for neocons that I do... even more so. But where I'm more of an independent social libertarian with some conservative positions, especially on fiscal issues, he is mostly a social conservative... and a hater of neocons. As Sarah continues to evolve and define her actual positions, rather than just offering conflicting talking points, people like Buchanan will either support her or reject her. If she begins walking like a neocon and talking like a neocon, Buchanan, and the paleoconservatives like him, will put the same blade in Palin that's being used on other neocons as I type.

After where the Evangelicals and the national socialist neocons have taken us for the past decade, I voted for a Democrat for President for the first time in my life. I was joined by a great many other independents, fiscal conservatives and social libertarians. The GOP might want to work on something more than a Confederate States of America strategy and fix that before 2012.

And hey, yesterday, someone being described as an "African-American centrist", Michael Steele, was elected Chairman of the RNC. I don't know much about this guy. But I do know that he was not the choice of the hard social conservatives (he believes in affirmative action and won't give straight answers about his position on abortion with any clarity, that I've seen). While the neocons apparently saw him as a good enough pawn to help them build a coalition with the party moderates and to help with the bad PR the GOP has been getting lately.

Like I've been saying, the battle is on within the GOP! So does anyone know which side Sarah is on? Maybe a better question, does Sarah know which side she is on?

Jag...I just know that you voted for a guy with NO actual experience governing anything and voting present a lot who is likely the most left of center candidate to ever win the presidency since Jimmy Carter. You REALLY must be scared of "neo-cons".....( I am still trying to figure out what a Neo-con actually is in reality. It is mainly a term of derision for most of the Dubya crowd. I usually just call them wing nuts)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

What I would add to this is that the interviewing of US politicians remains much, much more tame than that in the UK.

---

Sarah needs to stop whining about the treatment the media gives her, put on her big girl pants and either go for it or step aside. When faced with pressure, Caroline Kennedy folded up and stepped aside. If Sarah winds up on the wrong side of Karl Rove in the "Where the Right Went Wrong" GOP war, she's going to think of Katie Couric as her best friend. To Karl Rove's people, kids and families are fair game. Is Sarah ready for that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Sarah needs to stop whining about the treatment the media gives her, put on her big girl pants and either go for it or step aside. When faced with pressure, Caroline Kennedy folded up and stepped aside. If Sarah winds up on the wrong side of Karl Rove in the "Where the Right Went Wrong" GOP war, she's going to think of Katie Couric as her best friend. To Karl Rove's people, kids and families are fair game. Is Sarah ready for that?

---

Rove aint that nasty....Hillary and Bill Clinton maybe are...but Rove just let eveyrone THINK he is that nasty....

You are right tho, Palin dodged some of the media she should have dealt with. Bill O'Reilly could have made her bones if she had gone on with him and looked intelligent because he wouldn't give her softball questions but he would have drawn out who she really was. IF she had anything, he would have gotten to it. The problem is those doofuses running the McCain campaign were scared to death that people might find out McCain and Palin didn't have a lot in common...I think. 5 months later I am still trying to figure out what McCain stands for....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Jag...I just know that you voted for a guy with NO actual experience governing anything and voting present a lot who is likely the most left of center candidate to ever win the presidency since Jimmy Carter. You REALLY must be scared of "neo-cons".....( I am still trying to figure out what a Neo-con actually is in reality. It is mainly a term of derision for most of the Dubya crowd. I usually just call them wing nuts)

---

Yeah, counting two times for Perot, that makes at least the third time I've done that. The last time I voted for someone with "actual experience governing anything", I voted for George W. Bush. I'm not real happy with how that turned out, so I don't use that as a deciding criteria anymore. Beating in years and claiming that "experience" makes for a good President doesn't seem to wash. I mean, Sarah Palin had the most "executive experience" of the entire bunch... and she didn't know what the duties of the Vice President were.

My vote for Bush taught me that just because someone claims to have a similar philosophical view as my own, it's more important that they be able to execute, whatever their views. A well executed plan, that I don't completely agree with, is preferable to a poorly executed plan that I might agree with. The way I saw it when I cast my vote for Obama over McCain... if I need an operation, I'm going to pick Dr. Mengele over Stan the Butcher, if those are my two choices.

Some of you seem to think that Obama has a bad plan. And that may be so. But you'd have to be quite creative to convince me that McCain had any plan at all. IMO, he would right now be driving the country into a ditch, just as effectively as he drove his campaign into a ditch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Rove aint that nasty....Hillary and Bill Clinton maybe are...but Rove just let eveyrone THINK he is that nasty....

---

John and Cindy McCain (circa 2000) might disagree with you there. Kay Hagan would probably also feel differently - but in her case, it backfired on her opponent.

Quote:

---

You are right tho, Palin dodged some of the media she should have dealt with. Bill O'Reilly could have made her bones if she had gone on with him and looked intelligent because he wouldn't give her softball questions but he would have drawn out who she really was. IF she had anything, he would have gotten to it. The problem is those doofuses running the McCain campaign were scared to death that people might find out McCain and Palin didn't have a lot in common...I think. 5 months later I am still trying to figure out what McCain stands for....

---

My guess is, John McCain is also still trying to figure out what he stands for. I rather liked the McCain of 2000. But Perot ripped him a new one for flip-flopping on the Vietnam POW issue. I continue to think of him as a decent man, but one who was overwhelmed by events outside of his control, as well as one who created events that were within his control.

The first VP that actually knew ahead of time what his duties were would be the first Jag. AS for McCain..ya...in retrospect I wonder what he would have done. I thought about mid October that maybe winning this election would not be a good thing for anyone...and I also think that the RNC ended up with the worst possible candidate...

As far as any additional duties that the President might assign, that is true. But I mean the basic duties, as spelled out in the Constitution. It's very clear. Rather than reading the Constitution, it seemed that Sarah Palin may have asked Dick Cheney what the duties were, and maybe that's why her answer seemed sort of flakey.

All of us have probably interviewed for jobs and we weren't really sure of the duties. You know, from company to company, the same title might have different duties. But Vice President of the U.S.? Those duties have been available for all to read for over 200 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Sarah needs to stop whining about the treatment the media gives her, put on her big girl pants and either go for it or step aside. When faced with pressure, Caroline Kennedy folded up and stepped aside. If Sarah winds up on the wrong side of Karl Rove in the "Where the Right Went Wrong" GOP war, she's going to think of Katie Couric as her best friend. To Karl Rove's people, kids and families are fair game. Is Sarah ready for that?

---

"Caroline well, uh, like u know, i wuz, sort of like thinkin alittle bit, maybe, i should, u know like err maybe, i should say uncleTeddy's err health or maybe not, so if he does not want, uh, err, like pick err me i could like say it was, a personal err reason, that may be I should you know like do a withdraw, maybe Kennedy" did not step aside, it was more like:

"well Ms. Kennedy, I am set on appointing someone else, and before anouncing, I am giving you an opportunity to do whatever announcement you would like to make" and after several phone calls back and forth, she finally figured out that he was not giving her the job.....so we get the "personal family reasons" withdrawal :rolleyes: