It's time to screw Russia over

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I know but when you keep talking about your intellectual level you act as if you are one of them. Isn't your nose too high?

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I didn't mention my intellectual level, I just said I could have earned lots of money in Romania too. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Now, no offence, but you suffer of provincial frustration. I hate guys like you who come back and everything is stinking for them.

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Not everything, but most of the things. As for hating people who despise a rotten society, you are free to do it, if you like the said society.
I was disgusted last week by those whom I elected 4 years ago (well I always did my duty as a citizen, even if I was not in Romania). DO you thin k I should like the way they are doing things?!

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

The "society "should be your family and friends, you grew with them, they should be like you.

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:?:

Not at all, society is the whole of the people who make up the entity that you have social interactions with. That includes, the bus driver, the girl that sells you the bread, the milk and so on, the policeman, the teachers from your child's school and so on.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I live in the UK :) .

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Alright.

I'm not saying you haven't studied Russia before this Georgia incident ( which I unfortunately feel ;) ) but it's different than sharing a borderline with them and having to eat e they are offering monthly basis.

When Putin was made a tzar, things really got ****ed up :mark:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Armed conflict? Who said we have to go to war with them?! I'm in no way advocating for WWIII.

What I meant to say is that the western powers should realize that every time that Russia does a "Georgia" or "Tchetchenia" we should not only condemn them because they don't even care about it.
We need to punish them. Throw them out of the G8, move the Winter Olympic Games to another place than Soci, suspend the right for Russian companies to operate outside of Russia. There is a need to show them that we are not afraid even if it's not the case.

And if someone thinks that such measures would trigger a nuclear war, than they are completely wrong. Russian leaders aren't stupid, they aren't working to get fantastically rich just to destroy everything with a war they know they can't win (GB, France or Germany, any of them can win a war against Russia anytime, not to mention USA).

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I agree with you when you put it like that.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

To pick up the right leader you need a base of selection. Good people aren't interested in politics.

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I think that's a bit offensive to the many good people who are involved in politics, including many friends of mine.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I think you are completely misunderstanding what I posted.
Just because they had and have people who produced some of the most exceptional cultural bits, it doesn't mean that there are no people with low level or no culture at all, people who in this case are supporting a regime that is harmful for their citizens and for the rest of the world.

That's all, I never said that Russians or any other nation, shouldn't be praised for their cultural achievements. So please do not twist my words.

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I wasn't twisting your words, but misunderstanding them. There is a big difference. I apologise, though.

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Originally Posted by Drew

And then manage to decrease petrol and gas prices, by forcing the Russians to sell at a lower price? Interesting idea, if that's what you were meaning.

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It could be one consequence. What I was really meaning was that none of the countries in your list have such close and significant economic ties with the West as does Russia through its natural resources. Thus, economic sanctions directed at Russia would have a greater impact.

Talking about good leaders, who do you think that will be Georgias next president after Saakashvili resigns?

Interesting topic, but I want to remind people that everything began when USA approved Kosovo's independence. It created a precedent and South Ossetia and Abhazia decided to use it.
Then Saakashvili, who is a pro-western dictator and not a true democrat was foolish enough to attack the Empire.
And the Empire striked back.
It has the reason - to protect Russian citizens in South Ossetia againts the Georgian aggression.
It had the precedent - Kosovo.
And technically it is right. After all the USA did, theu have little or no right to talk about South Ossetia and Abhazia.
About Georgia, it made the mistake made by Slobo - removed Abhazia and Ossetia's autonomy (spelling) and the results are logically similar. The situation is obviously the same as Kosovo, or as Tibet.
Kosovo was supported as independent state.
Chinese were blamed for oppressing Tibet.
Georgians is supported in their desire to opress Ossetians.
A perfect trap, set by the Empire, and they used it well.
So the West seems illogical and weak. Its actions against the Empire should be less unconvincing talk and more action - not military, God forbid, but find the way to make oil cheaper and you have your solution.
BTW, in this war the only true losers were the poor people from Ossetia and Georgia, who was murdered. They were completely innocent, just caught in complex geopolitical games.
While worldwide politics showed that they suck big time.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Interesting topic, but I want to remind people that everything began when USA approved Kosovo's independence. It created a precedent and South Ossetia and Abhazia decided to use it.

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I think it's also true to say that Germany created a precedent when it recognised the independence of Slovenia and Croatia in 1991, possibly rather too soon in the eyes of some.

I was too young back then, I don't remember ;)

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Then Saakashvili, who is a pro-western dictator and not a true democrat was foolish enough to attack the Empire.
And the Empire striked back.
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Is Saakashvili even more stupid than George W Bush, or was he just being honest in an interview for awhile:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405722,00.html

CAVUTO: Mr. President, there are reports that our country and others had warned before you moved on South Ossetia week that the Russians were -- had a huge response planned, in other words, that this move would be a mistake, and that you ignored that advice.

SAAKASHVILI: Absolutely.

CAVUTO: Is that true?

SAAKASHVILI: No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. We did not move on South Ossetia. We responded to Russians moving in. That's exactly what they were saying, that there is a Russian buildup over the border. That's exactly what we were saying as well.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think that's a bit offensive to the many good people who are involved in politics, including many friends of mine.

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It wasn't meant to be offensive at all. It was a reply to Ioan and was related to the elections in Russia and eastern Europe in general. In our country's elections we have to choose from a very colourful base of selection. It includes different kind of singers ( folkloric, gypsy-style, etc.) former football coaches, corrupted heads of football teams/associations, local corrupted barons, ancient agents of Ceausescu's secret service, sons of former communist leadrers, poets who glorified the communist regime,etc.

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Originally Posted by Ioan

I was disgusted last week by those whom I elected 4 years ago (well I always did my duty as a citizen, even if I was not in Romania). DO you thin k I should like the way they are doing things?!.

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Quod erat demonstrandum!!!!!!Maybe russians were also disgusted by the guys who won elections. What I meant is that even if we want to vote we don't have proper options and the results are always the same. That's why I generally refuse to " do my duty as a citizen ". Sometimes I vote only in the second tour when one of the candidates is really getting on my nerves. That's why I voted for the actual mayor of the city who surprisingly is doing a good job.

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Originally Posted by Ioan

I didn't mention my intellectual level, I just said I could have earned lots of money in Romania too.

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But you mentioned that money is not important and you simply can't live among guys with such low intelectual and social level ...It means that your level is too high. If guys like Plesu, Liiceanu or Patapievici can live here without complaints then you must be above them....

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Originally Posted by Ioan

Not at all, society is the whole of the people who make up the entity that you have social interactions with. That includes, the bus driver, the girl that sells you the bread, the milk and so on, the policeman, the teachers from your child's school and so on..

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Ahaaa.. That's the society you couldn't stand more than a week....I wonder what these guys whose intelectual level shouldn't be so high have done to annoy you ( as if you were obliged to have a conversation with them ) : the bus driver had shut the doors before you could get on, the girl who sells bread refused to serve you until you asked her in hungarian, the milk man broke a bottle of milk on your trousers on purpose, the policeman was too nosey, the teacher was angry that you didn't send him a post card after all the things he did for you, etc.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Talking about good leaders, who do you think that will be Georgias next president after Saakashvili resigns?

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A guy who'll be obedient to Russia. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

A guy who'll be obedient to Russia. :laugh:

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Yeah, right. There's no stronger beast than cat. Russia will subdue everybody.

Except it won't.

Russia is a regional power, indeed. Technically it can bomb the crap out of its every neighbour and strangle everybody by stopping the supply of oil and gas. But the modern day world is tightly interconnected and Russians know that an open confrontation with the rest of the world will backfire on them. The gov't knows it especially well. Where will they keep their money if not in Switzerland? Where will they educated their kids if not in Oxbridge? Where will they have vacation with underaged nymphettes if not in Courchavel?

So they have their hard power, but its use is limited. And they terribly lack soft power in the shape of technologies, culture etc. Their current model of state is very inattractive and corrupt to the core. One has to be insane to be willingly obedient to such a country.

Or well paid, Rudy.
Or well paid...

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I wasn't twisting your words, but misunderstanding them. There is a big difference. I apologise, though.

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I'm sorry for being to harsh on your post.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

That's why I generally refuse to " do my duty as a citizen ".

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You see, you gave me the perfect reason why I hate the Romanian society and I don't want to go back. You people continuously cry about everything, still you don't use your right to change your life in better.
It's appalling that people far from the country often travel hundreds or thousands of kilometers in order to use their vote and fulfill their duty as citizens, yet people living in Romania will sh!t on it. :rolleyes:

You lot don't know what democracy means, and that almost 20 years after so many died for it. :\

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Originally Posted by ioan

You lot don't know what democracy means, and that almost 20 years after so many died for it. :\

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well what is Democracy Ioan :?:

and what makes you so sure that the country where you are residing in CAN be called a democracy???

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Originally Posted by harsha

well what is Democracy Ioan :?:

and what makes you so sure that the country where you are residing in CAN be called a democracy???

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Democracy:

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Democracy is a system of government by which political sovereignty is retained by the people and exercised directly by citizens. In modern times it has also been used to refer to a constitutional republic where the people have a voice through their elected representatives.

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The country where I live since I left Romania is France, maybe you want to dispute the fact that France id democratic. :rolleyes:

it seems that you can state what Democracy stands for but you don't have any notion about it's meaning

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

Their current model of state is very inattractive and corrupt to the core. One has to be insane to be willingly obedient to such a country.

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I'm confused. I admit I don't have much knowledge on this issue but doesn't " your " ( mind the " ", I'm sure you didn't support him ) Aleksandr Lukasenko have a pro-Russia orientation? Am I wrong if I ever heard of a possible union with the Russian Federation?

If I'm wrong please accept my apologise.

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Originally Posted by harsha

it seems that you can state what Democracy stands for but you don't have any notion about it's meaning

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What's your problem exactly? Did you sleep bad? Woke up on the wrong side? Are you in need of petty squabbling?

I told you what democracy is, what part of it didn't you understand?
Or maybe you are one of those who believe that Democracy = free to do whatever you want?! Sorry to disappoint you, but it isn't the case.

And given that you are such a big democracy connoisseur why don't you explain us what it is?

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Originally Posted by harsha

it seems that you can state what Democracy stands for but you don't have any notion about it's meaning

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Democracy is defined as = the result of the majority of idiots in a said population voting for the idiot they feel most relates to their needs.

While democracy is the currently the best form of goverment as it reflects the majority of a populations views, it is still a flawed system.

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Alright.

I'm not saying you haven't studied Russia before this Georgia incident ( which I unfortunately feel ;) ) but it's different than sharing a borderline with them and having to eat e they are offering monthly basis.

When Putin was made a tzar, things really got ****ed up :mark:

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All due respect, but thats a very ignorant view to take. If I understand correctly your judging me on where I live?

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Originally Posted by ioan

You see, you gave me the perfect reason why I hate the Romanian society and I don't want to go back. You people continuously cry about everything, still you don't use your right to change your life in better.
It's appalling that people far from the country often travel hundreds or thousands of kilometers in order to use their vote and fulfill their duty as citizens, yet people living in Romania will sh!t on it. :rolleyes:

You lot don't know what democracy means, and that almost 20 years after so many died for it. :\

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Ioane, I've told you I'm fed up with slogans.
And stop touching the emotional chord with old cliches like " so many died for it " They'll probably turn around in their graves if they see who are today's peolple's democratic choices. Not to mention that living in a democracy doesn't mean you're automatically a happy person.
When did you see me crying for everything? Who shall I vote for a better life? PNlL ( ha!!), PSD ( ha, ha ) , PDL ( don't tell me! ), PC ( I always had a weakness for Felix the Cat but I can't stand the security guys ), PRM ( I adore pamphlets but everything has a limit ), PNG ( perfect choice: I'm aromanian and I'm a crazy Steaua Bucharest fan ), UDMR ( I can't , I'm rather nationalist) ?
According to our constitution to vote is a right not a duty. If you think it's a duty than it also implies an obligation: to do it with reason. If my intellect ( well, that's the way I call my only one left neuron :laugh: ) says that any option is bad what shall I do? The distance to the voting booth is irelevant, the results of the elections counts. You voted from miles away and you're disgusted although the guys you voted won. I didn't, I have a rather tough life ( it's fair to say it's my fault, I can't blame society) but I'm not that unhappy to leave the country. Advantage.....?

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Ioane, I've told you I'm fed up with slogans.
And stop touching the emotional chord with old cliches like " so many died for it " They'll probably turn around in their graves if they see who are today's peolple's democratic choices. Not to mention that living in a democracy doesn't mean you're automatically a happy person.
When did you see me crying for everything? Who shall I vote for a better life? PNlL ( ha!!), PSD ( ha, ha ) , PDL ( don't tell me! ), PC ( I always had a weakness for Felix the Cat but I can't stand the security guys ), PRM ( I adore pamphlets but everything has a limit ), PNG ( perfect choice: I'm aromanian and I'm a crazy Steaua Bucharest fan ), UDMR ( I can't , I'm rather nationalist) ?
According to our constitution to vote is a right not a duty. If you think it's a duty than it also implies an obligation: to do it with reason. If my intellect ( well, that's the way I call my only one left neuron :laugh: ) says that any option is bad what shall I do? The distance to the voting booth is irelevant, the results of the elections counts. You voted from miles away and you're disgusted although the guys you voted won. I didn't, I have a rather tough life ( it's fair to say it's my fault, I can't blame society) but I'm not that unhappy to leave the country. Advantage.....?

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You had the chance to change this when the referendum for the uni-nominal elections was held last year. Let me remind you that only 18% of the people of with voting rights from Bucharest turned up for it, and under 50% for the whole country.

There were also a few counties where the presence was much higher (around 80%), and not surprisingly these are Transylvanian counties.

The uni-nominal electoral system would have given you the chance to elect a local candidate for the parliament, instead of a list of candidates of a certain political party.

That was your chance for having a direct representative in the parliament, and you missed it big time, mainly because of people like you who believe that voting is only a right and not a duty.

The day you will understand that everything depends on you and not on someone else, will be the day when you will be able to move forward. Until you manage that I see no reason for you to judge me, and say that I left for more money.

PS: And no the distance to the voting booth isn't irrelevant at all for those who care about the vote, it is only for those who don't go and instead chose to stay and watch some soap opera on the TV.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You had the chance to change this when the referendum for the uni-nominal elections was held last year. Let me remind you that only 18% of the people of with voting rights from Bucharest turned up for it, and under 50% for the whole country.
There were also a few counties where the presence was much higher (around 80%), and not surprisingly these are Transylvanian counties.
The uni-nominal electoral system would have given you the chance to elect a local candidate for the parliament, instead of a list of candidates of a certain political party.
That was your chance for having a direct representative in the parliament, and you missed it big time, mainly because of people like you who believe that voting is only a right and not a duty.
The day you will understand that everything depends on you and not on someone else, will be the day when you will be able to move forward. Until you manage that I see no reason for you to judge me, and say that I left for more money.
PS: And no the distance to the voting booth isn't irrelevant at all for those who care about the vote, it is only for those who don't go and instead chose to stay and watch some soap opera on the TV.

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Aceeasi Marie, cu alta palarie. :laugh: And uni-nominal my a**
First of all I HAVE this chance cos the uni-nominal system WILL work in this autumn elections.
And yes not only I'll have the chance to vote a local ( as "local" as Nastase can be in Mizil and Geoana in Dabuleni :laugh: - and remember that they are not independent they still represent a party ) candidate but also ironically we'll get more exotic choices than ever. Already confirmed : the first romanian in cosmos, a telenovela actress well-known for her bad mouth and TV scandals, a world champion in box, a folk singer, a doctor in canibalism, and so on.
The comedy show will be perfect and the performance for free. For guys like you ( in diaspora ) PSD is courting 2 surprise-candidates: Ilie Nastase and Nadia Comaneci :laugh: It's sad that you'll go again a thousand miles to vote a guy who was a great tennis champion but is not able to tie 2 words. But I'm sure he'll be able to change things and will come with new law projects.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Democracy is defined as = the result of the majority of idiots in a said population voting for the idiot they feel most relates to their needs.

While democracy is the currently the best form of goverment as it reflects the majority of a populations views, it is still a flawed system.

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Then what type of system works better? Monarchs, Communist states, Dictatorships? They've all worked so well.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Democracy is defined as = the result of the majority of idiots in a said population voting for the idiot they feel most relates to their needs.

While democracy is the currently the best form of goverment as it reflects the majority of a populations views, it is still a flawed system.

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very true.... :cheese:

if you want a bigger example,check out India..the so called "largest" democracy around...

the elections are still won by the "caste/religion" route.The policies are very often pro-poor which results in a large amount of Tax Burden to be borne by the guys with the white-collar jobs(the Middle-class)...ironically the middle class has very less voting power(as they currently are a minority-even though they contribute most of the taxes)

i've seen so many governments catering to the minorities...why,cause it's those fools who win them the elections,the middle class people are just bystanders...

as in the government,there is no alternate government....i mean there is no other force in the Country which is worth supporting.What do u expect when the MP's are bought for cash for their vote in a nuclear deal.

I would rather have a dictatorship government like the government of Singapore...

Oh well,one thing i'm glad of that i'm in India is atleast i know the truth(or some semblance of it)...you wouldn't know that's the case judging by some of the posts of the American Members...

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

First of all I HAVE this chance cos the uni-nominal system WILL work in this autumn elections.

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No it won't, because it will be only a mixed system, not a 100% uninominal, and the same communists that destroyed the country for the latest 19 years will be elected again on their party's lists even if no one wants them in the parliament again.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You see, you gave me the perfect reason why I hate the Romanian society and I don't want to go back. You people continuously cry about everything, still you don't use your right to change your life in better.

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That doesn't necessarily mean leaving for somewhere else. Others may want to stay and make the best of it. They may not have the opportunities to do anything else.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You lot don't know what democracy means, and that almost 20 years after so many died for it. :\

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That really is a very patronising comment indeed.

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Originally Posted by angie1313

Then what type of system works better? Monarchs, Communist states, Dictatorships? They've all worked so well.

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Wasn't Chruchill who said that democracy is an awful way of ruling, yet all other forms are even worse?

^I think it's just what 555-04Q2 said as well. :)

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

All due respect, but thats a very ignorant view to take. If I understand correctly your judging me on where I live?

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Yes, that's what it sounds when you put it out like that. But all due respect, I didn't mean it like that.

What I meant it's not as easy to see all the things Russia do if you don't have the ringside seats as we do.

I said yourself:

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

You may be right. I'm not going to pretend I know the inside out of this story, or that I'm an expect on international issues (albeit I do take an interest).

But thats the facts laid down straight and in a simple form. On paper to me it looks like Russia is in the right, but people think they're wrong because of the bad media coverage they've had, led by the USA.

Whether Russia has an alterative motive, who knows, they probably do to be fair, but nothing will change the fact that Georgia started it by trying to take control of the region. And surely they'd have known Russia would have had to react whilst they had troops there (through an agreement Georgia accepted).

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On paper it can look anything or people may say anything about USA's involment etc. But it's just very black and white. I bet you could have a different view if you'd have a history and their shadow over your shoulders all the time.

My point is that Russia has for years and years done the **** they do and they always seem to get away with it. And it pisses me off. They really are bullies like some already said. Their idea of diplomacy is to scare people silent. Now the opposition here in Finland is whining about our politics that it's way too much against Russia and it's risky. Apparently we have the weakest Russia relation since the WWII :eek: Well dippidii duu. If Russia's idea of relation is; "if you're not with us, you're against us" it's pretty hard to please them... unless you kiss their ***** like these conservative opposition parlament members would like.

I'm not sure whether I like the media novadays? or not It's true we get the news quicker and the whole world is able to see what they've done. But we also get that propaganda so people won't know what part to believe :mark:

Bummer I guess.

Anyway, the point for this post was sorry, didn't mean to be ignorant to you.

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Originally Posted by angie1313

Then what type of system works better? Monarchs, Communist states, Dictatorships? They've all worked so well.

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There is no better system, Democracy is still the best form of governance. However, as I stated, it is still a flawed system. I dont think there will ever be a perfect system where all parties are catered for. Human nature does not allow for it.

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Originally Posted by harsha

very true.... :cheese:

if you want a bigger example,check out India..the so called "largest" democracy around...

the elections are still won by the "caste/religion" route.The policies are very often pro-poor which results in a large amount of Tax Burden to be borne by the guys with the white-collar jobs(the Middle-class)...ironically the middle class has very less voting power(as they currently are a minority-even though they contribute most of the taxes)

i've seen so many governments catering to the minorities...why,cause it's those fools who win them the elections,the middle class people are just bystanders...

as in the government,there is no alternate government....i mean there is no other force in the Country which is worth supporting.What do u expect when the MP's are bought for cash for their vote in a nuclear deal.

I would rather have a dictatorship government like the government of Singapore...

Oh well,one thing i'm glad of that i'm in India is atleast i know the truth(or some semblance of it)...you wouldn't know that's the case judging by some of the posts of the American Members...

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Sadly.....we have the same problem here :(

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Originally Posted by ioan

No it won't, because it will be only a mixed system, not a 100% uninominal, and the same communists that destroyed the country for the latest 19 years will be elected again on their party's lists even if no one wants them in the parliament again.

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AGAIN ????!!!!You use the word " AGAIN "? Who was the one who voted and now is disappointed by his choice? Me or you? Stop voting the communist and the guys from "securitate" and then come here to pull my ears. Even the uninominal vote will bring the same candidates + some "notorious" people who don't know anything about politics like Adrian-the Wonder Kid.
Now let's stop this useless dispute. It's not related to the topic and we risk to bore the others.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I'm confused. I admit I don't have much knowledge on this issue but doesn't " your " ( mind the " ", I'm sure you didn't support him ) Aleksandr Lukasenko have a pro-Russia orientation? Am I wrong if I ever heard of a possible union with the Russian Federation?

If I'm wrong please accept my apologise.

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It is a complicated issue indeed and it is not what it seems. It is very far from the picture that the newspapers paint. "Lukashenko is pro-Russian and will sell Belarus the moment Russians come up with a decent bid." Not.

First, Lukashenko is a power freak and he used to nurse an idea of merging Belarus and Russia into a single state and becoming its president. When it did not work he decided to settle for ruling Belarus. Now he does just that and there is no way he is going to cede his power and state sovereignty Russians or anybody else. He tries to be an ally of Russia and does that pretty successfully. The word is that Belarus is dependent on Russian gas and oil, but it is only a part of the whole truth. Belarus has huge oil refineries where Russian oil get processed and the products are sold to the whole world, mostly Europe. The profits get split between Belarus and Russia and that is being done in a clandestine way. I.e. Belarus is an offshore zone for Russian tycoons. Same thing with arms trade. Russia will not sell arms to Sudan, but Belarus will. So Russia sells arms to Belarus at half price. Belarus sells it at full price and profits are shared again. It's a goldmine and this is Lukashenko's leverage against Russians. We are also the only remaining Russia's military ally and we have one of the most capable armies in the Eastern Europe and Russians have no choice but to pay a price for that. Lukashenko's is a rural type of guy, uneducated and ugly but cunny and armed with a set of animal instincts. He knows his trump cards and manipulates Russia pretty well. He also has an exit strategy. Once his relations Russia go sour, he only needs to let the opposition take part in the eletions and maybe win a couple sits, and EU and the U.S. will have to start talking to him. So it's like that no merger with Russia is envisaged any time soon.

Although I would frankly prefer Belarus to be a neutral state, on good terms with both East and West but not being a satellite of either. Oh yeah, and I still dislike Lukashenko. ;)

Thank you Rudy. But still....we can say he's obedient to Russia, can't we?

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

It is a complicated issue indeed and it is not what it seems. It is very far from the picture that the newspapers paint. "Lukashenko is pro-Russian and will sell Belarus the moment Russians come up with a decent bid." Not.

First, Lukashenko is a power freak and he used to nurse an idea of merging Belarus and Russia into a single state and becoming its president. When it did not work he decided to settle for ruling Belarus. Now he does just that and there is no way he is going to cede his power and state sovereignty Russians or anybody else. He tries to be an ally of Russia and does that pretty successfully. The word is that Belarus is dependent on Russian gas and oil, but it is only a part of the whole truth. Belarus has huge oil refineries where Russian oil get processed and the products are sold to the whole world, mostly Europe. The profits get split between Belarus and Russia and that is being done in a clandestine way. I.e. Belarus is an offshore zone for Russian tycoons. Same thing with arms trade. Russia will not sell arms to Sudan, but Belarus will. So Russia sells arms to Belarus at half price. Belarus sells it at full price and profits are shared again. It's a goldmine and this is Lukashenko's leverage against Russians. We are also the only remaining Russia's military ally and we have one of the most capable armies in the Eastern Europe and Russians have no choice but to pay a price for that. Lukashenko's is a rural type of guy, uneducated and ugly but cunny and armed with a set of animal instincts. He knows his trump cards and manipulates Russia pretty well. He also has an exit strategy. Once his relations Russia go sour, he only needs to let the opposition take part in the eletions and maybe win a couple sits, and EU and the U.S. will have to start talking to him. So it's like that no merger with Russia is envisaged any time soon.

Although I would frankly prefer Belarus to be a neutral state, on good terms with both East and West but not being a satellite of either. Oh yeah, and I still dislike Lukashenko. ;)

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What do you think will Russia place missiles in Belarus, now when Poland agreed to take the us missiles on their soil?