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Lewis is the first black F1 driver. Howcome? He had to push himself into conversations and become a talking point to be noticed. Comments like that ^^ are exactly what got him noticed in the first place. And it worked. We're discussing it here.
Now that he is in F1, I would have thought he might back down a bit, but since he has a fanclub (and a reputation) I think he will carry on until his own fans start complaining.
Who is LH's PR manager now?
No one cares that Lewis is black. I think Lewis' skin colour is irrelevant. If he was growing up in Apartheid South Africa he could yammer on about how he overcame prejudice and so on but he grew up in the UK where as a racing driver I don't think being black was a disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravity
He went for the overtake and was in front. I don't know if he straightlined to avoid contact with Vettel or not but if he did, then Vettel should have given racing room. However, until I see a clip I don't know.
If he was going too fast that he couldn't take the corner, then he deserved the penalty.
Either way, I agree with Robino that I have seen people get away with worse (I thought of Schumy and PdlR as well).
However, the Stewards decision is their decision but it does seem to be getting rather silly.
Lewis got a 10 place penalty - Fair
Lewis gets a questionable drive through - Undecided
Hekki gets a 5 spot penalty - BS
Mclaren must be thinking they are in the film "Escape to Victory"
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=35208
He sounds like Mr.T in one of the Rocky movies! ;)
Lewis explains it pretty well in this article:Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=35208
Sorry, I can't quote it as it is a copy proof site.
However he pretty much says that he lost the back end of the car while trying to go around Vettel and as a result he cut over the chicane.
Did he lose the car because he was going to fast? If that's the case, and it seems it is, than he wouldn't have been in a position to overtake without making the subsequent mistake.
He has potential. But if he keeps switching off at crucial times and not translating his talent into the best results all the time, he'll end up like Montoya.
Also the fact that he regurgitates the same self appraising PR message every F&^%ing race gives me the S&$%s.
I personally think "Our drivers made some silly mistakes and got penalised for them" would be a better movie analogyQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
You're simply highlighting the problem...the same quotes being used by many different websites to produce a slightly different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
There's nothing new, just a re-hash.
Its sad a series which is lacking in overtaking is making it even harder to over take.......Well at least he did not cut in and cause a crash.
A bit of a grey area that rule but he did get the lesser of the three options available to the stewards. But then Kimi was aloud to run around with a flapping exhaust. What was more advantages or dangerous? I digress.
So what?!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I know you would like us to praise Lewy for what a great British F1 driver he is, but really, it isn't the case to do it, so it's time to live with the, well deserved, criticism. :D
Watch all the teams having at least one flapping exhaust pipe next race, according to our resident Max, that's an advantage. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
The team should have removed the exhaust pipe, that's for sure, so I'm all for a hefty fine coming their way!
Martin Brundle made the point during the ITV commentary that Magny-Cours "babysits" the drivers far too much i.e. the many tarmac runoff areas simply don't penalise mistakes, and in some cases reward errors.
Had there been gravel, and not tarmac, then we would not be discussing this incident (in the same way!!) because Lewis would have been beached and out of the race. Then again, he probably would not have attempted the pass on Vettel at that point anyway.
Or perhaps "We're lucky even to be racing this year after being caught with a Ferrari dossier which we claim we never used" would be a good movie title also :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
A fine will make no difference whatsoever. Or perhaps the stewards should have fined Hamilton.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
And I supose if there had been a concrete barrier, we wouldn't be discussing this either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Perhaps the stewards, after lengthy viewing of all the vids at their disposal, considered that Lewis Hamilton did gain an advantage when he cut the chicane. Had he slowed down sufficiently to go the proper route around the corner, he may not have been able to pass Vettel there.
My point here, and that was a point made by the commentators, is that had he used his head, and waited till Vettel re-passed him, he could have re-taken Vettel before another lap had passed.
I know this may irk some here, but one thing about SchM, he did use his head a lot of times to think out a race and how he would pass opponents. And more than Lewis Hamilton, I blame his pits for not telling him to let Vettel go past to exonerate him. From my perspective, I think he would have at least come fifth had he used his head.
But that doesn't explain the inconsistencies of the stewards.
Why is it Lewis gets penalised this time round and Vettel gets away with it Canada.
The Hamilton penalty was marginal, a difficult call for the Stewards to make - I just hope they saw the external view we all missed in the TV coverage.
The Stewards not making Ferrari stop Raikkonen and remove the flapping exhaust was clear cut and in my opinion wrong. Having a car racing around with a lump of metal flapping in the breeze that could fly off at any moment really wasn't acceptable. No one knew whether the exhaust was going to stay attached or not.
In hindsight I suspect Lewis would agree with you :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I agree that was one of his major strengths, but early in his career he was as prone to making errors. Experience can't be bought, it takes time to be accumulated, and as Jackie Stewart has saidof his own career "I gained experience, which gave me knowledge, which in turn enabled me to deliver."Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Because France and Canada are on different sides of the Atlantic?Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
:laugh:
Typical British objectivity in action:
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...726064,00.htmlQuote:
While Ron Dennis' hint that McLaren, no friends of the discredited FIA President Mosley, felt they were being victimised was played down by his number two Martin Whitmarsh, it has emerged that Donnelly, Mosley's 'official representative' at grands prix and a consultant to the FIA, 'led' the stewards when they studied footage of the incident. In January, it was announced that retiring permanent steward Tony Scott-Andrews would not be replaced and his place would instead by filled by Donnelly acting as a 'administrator'.
Pathetic article. They manage to dig deeper every time! :)
because you think that Raikkonen was at fault for a lose exhaust pipe?! The Lewy fanboy is talking there, not a F1 enthusiast.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Because if Vettel didn't make the mistake in Canada then Kovalainen would have passed him?!Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Any proof to support your view? I doubt it.
To make it clear, you can't penalize someone for something hypothetical, only for something that happened.
From crash.net, this is what Hamilton says on the incident:
“I went into the corner believing I was ahead on the outside, and couldn't turn-in on the guy otherwise we would have crashed, so I took a wider line. Then I lost the back on the marbles and went over the kerb and continued. I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb. I overtook him before that, as a result [of which] I was forced wide.”
By saying this, he has admitted to being worthy of a penalty - I don't think he understands the rules.
The rule is about "gaining an advantage by going off circuit" nothing to do with overtaking as such. By going across the "kerb" as he calls it - a better term is "run-off" because that area used to be grass, he MAINTAINED his position and COMPLETED his overtaking manoevure. This is why he was penalised.
He needs to come down to earth a bit. One big error and one small error haven't done it, what will it take?
He clearly doesn't understand a lot of things about racing in F1, however why isn't the team helping him understand better, instead of letting him destroy his slimmest chances for a point?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
:laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I have never said Raikkonen was at fault. The point I was making related to the effect a post-race fine on Ferrari would have had i.e. zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Quote from PitPass.Quote:
According to ITV, who supply coverage of F1 in Britain, the only footage of the Hamilton incident provided by the FOM TV host broadcast was an on-board shot from the Englishman's McLaren that apparently showed Hamilton past Vettel before he approached the Nurburgring chicane.
They claim that 'No exterior shot of the incident was offered', but cite the FIA reporting that 'its stewards, led by Max Mosley's number two Alan Donnelly, had access to the circuit's closed circuit TV cameras when making their decision'. The Times reports that the stewards adjudged Hamilton's offence to be "very clear".
It is unclear, however, why this footage has not been made available.
What should also be asked of Mr Donnelly is why a lump of metal that was hanging off a Ferrari for Lap afte Lap until it went flying off on a corner, (thankfully without hitting, injuring or killing anyone) was not removed under a Black and Orange.
What would have happened if it was a McLaren :laugh:
That was Lewis's perspective and I'm not sure he viewed a replay after he calmed down after the race before he decided to answer his critics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
Ron Dennis has a slightly different perspective when he talked to ITV:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43085
Quote:
Dennis, however, argued that Hamilton had already completed the manoeuvre before he ran wide.
“I think he was past him,” he told Ted Kravitz after the race.
“I don’t think he got any track position.
“That’s my opinion; obviously it’s not an opinion held by other people, but I think he was past.
“There’s really nothing to be gained from saying anything else.”
Dennis revealed that he had argued his case to FIA race director Charlie Whiting – but Whiting was unconvinced.
“I just told him that it was our opinion that Lewis was past before he got squeezed off the circuit,” said Dennis.
“I don’t think he gained a position through being off the road, but obviously other people had a different opinion.”
Now all you really needed to say was:Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
'Lewis speaks out'
but no, much like Danica P., you had to keep going on with ...... yada yada yada Koolaid yada
If it was a McLaren, it would have fallen off and killed someone??Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
They should have fined them during the race?!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Or you were hinting that they should have disqualified Kimi because the team didn't remove the lose exhaust pipe?!
It would have been a nice "an eye for an eye" in exchange for Lewy's (fully deserved) drive through penalty, isn't it?! :rolleyes:
Dream on. Your problem is that McLaren isn't the superior machine it was last season (mostly due to spying on the best team) and this shows that Hamilton is a driver like any other.
Exactly the answer I was expecting! :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Good one! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
An in your opinion who was driving the car Lewy or Ron "Integrity" Dennis?Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Ioan, you are again missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The fact of the matter is that the broken exhaust DID fall off during the race. What IF (yes, this is hypothetical) it did hit another car, ruining the drivers race, or it hit a spectator?
The Stewards should have used the Black and Yellow flag to have it removed. How long does it take to snip a cable?
Ioan, that was rhetoric I think you will find, it was a question (not an answer) that did not require a response.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Lewis was recalling from his memory, Ron was responding to the TV images and the stewards were privy to the CCTV images.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Unless the CCTV images are released then this argument is inconclusive!
Lewis knew that he ran wide while trying to go around Vettel, because he was the one driving the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Ron, he only said what he was willing to see or what he wanted us to believe that he saw.
Well a rhetoric question is actually an answer, that's exactly why it didn't require an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
and if you look again you'll see that I didn't answer his rhetoric question, instead I laughed at the answer he was giving.
At the risk of being repetitive...Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ioan, that was rhetoric I think you will find, it was a question (not an answer) that did not require a response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24c2GVlP2CkQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
He hits the first apex which suggests Ron is correct that Lewis passed Vettel and completed the move before the chicane