How strong is the Ferrari?

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18th March 2008, 11:26
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

That was only on Lewis' car.

It didn't look like that to me.
They both had the left front tire with more wear than the right one, but other than that it was pretty much the same.
And given that they went half +, of the race on the softer tires compared to the McCheats using them only for the last stint for not even half as many laps, I would say that the Ferrari have the bets balanced cars and this will be obvious as soon as they stop stuffing things up like kids.

Well, Massa (Kimi's Brother?) took on new tyres, and the white line on the left front was dissapearing faster on Massa's than Kimi's. It was just an observation.
18th March 2008, 11:28
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Talk about reading too much into ONE race.....

We,ve only had one race, and I'm only commenting on what impressions I took from that race.

Sorry about that, have I caused offence?
18th March 2008, 11:35
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

We,ve only had one race, and I'm only commenting on what impressions I took from that race.

Sorry about that, have I caused offence?

Of course not. I just don't see the point in drawing sweeping conclusions from what is only one race.

Perhaps in 2 or 3 races we can get an idea of form but it's simply to early to say at the moment. If you want to keep on making these sweeping statements I don't have a problem but don't expect me to not point out that we've only had one race so far and that you shouldn't read into it too much.
18th March 2008, 11:37
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course not. I just don't see the point in drawing sweeping conclusions from what is only one race.

Perhaps in 2 or 3 races we can get an idea of form but it's simply to early to say at the moment. If you want to keep on making these sweeping statements I don't have a problem but don't expect me to not point out that we've only had one race so far and that you shouldn't read into it too much.

Okey dokey, fair point. :up:
18th March 2008, 12:10
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course not. I just don't see the point in drawing sweeping conclusions from what is only one race.

What SGWilko is writing is exactly the same what Stefano Domenicali said after OZ. They are struggling to get the tyres working in qualifying, a problem they have had a long time now.
18th March 2008, 12:15
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

What SGWilko is writing is exactly the same what Stefano Domenicali said after OZ. They are struggling to get the tyres working in qualifying, a problem they have had a long time now.

Thing is as Ioan pointed out during the race Kimi went for quite a while with their soft tyres without much issue.
18th March 2008, 12:16
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, Massahttp://forums.motorsport.com/forum ... /clear.gif
http://forums.motorsport.com/forums/...misc/clear.gif (Kimi's Brother?) took on new tyres, and the white line on the left front was dissapearing faster on Massa's than Kimi's. It was just an observation.

You're right he took on new tires on at the end of lap 1, what a huge difference. care to tell us how did you measure the speed at which the white line was disappearing on their tires? Especially that we didn't get to see them each and every lap.

PS: Did you consider getting a job with ITV, you could be their tire degradation speed specialist! :D
18th March 2008, 12:32
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Thing is as Ioan pointed out during the race Kimi went for quite a while with their soft tyres without much issue.

Yes that is true but the issue is that they can't get their tyres work for qualifying so they won't get to the front row and that is bad as passing is not too easy in current F1.
18th March 2008, 12:44
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

Yes that is true but the issue is that they can't get their tyres work for qualifying so they won't get to the front row and that is bad as passing is not too easy in current F1.

True. But these days strategy plays a big part. Kimi was on for a good result from a bad grid position if not get his 2 mistakes and the eventual engine failure. Will see what happens in Malaysia next week :D
18th March 2008, 12:50
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

True. But these days strategy plays a big part. Kimi was on for a good result from a bad grid position if not get his 2 mistakes and the eventual engine failure. Will see what happens in Malaysia next week :D

Yep, at the end of the SC period he could have still won the race, but now we know it wouldn't have happened anyway.
18th March 2008, 12:52
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

You're right he took on new tires on at the end of lap 1, what a huge difference. care to tell us how did you measure the speed at which the white line was disappearing on their tires? Especially that we didn't get to see them each and every lap.

PS: Did you consider getting a job with ITV, you could be their tire degradation speed specialist! :D

Ioan, it is really quite simple, no smoke or mirrors required surprisingly...

Just compare the onboard shots from Kimi's car with Massa's when they show them on the same lap.

You don't need to see them on every lap, just now and again at similar times to make a reasonable visual judgement.

As for ITV, they did ask, but they were not offereing private healthcare so I declined the offer. :dozey:
18th March 2008, 12:58
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Yep, at the end of the SC period he could have still won the race, but now we know it wouldn't have happened anyway.

Kimi's win was gone the moment he got stucked behind Rubens for 19 laps and Heikki got if front of Kimi after his first pitstop. But like you say all this does not really matter as the engine woud have broke anyway.
18th March 2008, 13:35
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

Kimi's win was gone the moment he got stucked behind Rubens for 19 laps and Heikki got if front of Kimi after his first pitstop. But like you say all this does not really matter as the engine woud have broke anyway.

He had the luck to be up there with LH and HK when they had 1 pit stop to do each. So it was possible to fight for the win and he was already on the podium.
What happened after that is well known to all of us.
Let's hope all the parts stay together for the next GP.
18th March 2008, 13:39
Big Ben

I don't know.
18th March 2008, 13:40
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Let's hope all the parts stay together for the next GP.

I think Massa's been looking in his chrystal ball again....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massa

"We will put new engines in the car and for sure we can go to the end of two races now," he said. "It wasn't the temperature that affected our engines, it was something else which we need to discover very quickly.

But he is saying that before any analysis has been made on the units. He has a lot of faith does that boy.
18th March 2008, 14:06
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

But he is saying that before any analysis has been made on the units.

It is said to be something related to valves and they both had the same failure.
18th March 2008, 14:10
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

It is said to be something related to valves and they both had the same failure.

Thanks for the info. Do you have a source for that info at all, or is the valve thing just a hunch at this time?
19th March 2008, 00:09
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

Yes that is true but the issue is that they can't get their tyres work for qualifying so they won't get to the front row

I don't know about that. Massa did say that it did not get pole position due to traffic on the track and Kimi had his issues with the e-pump. So, before coming out with so definite statements let's see what happens for a couple of races. How can anyone know what's the situation after just ONE race? Who saw the real Ferrari? NOBODY. So, let us be a little patient and only time will tell the reality of things. You guys know better than that.......
19th March 2008, 00:50
Hawkmoon

All of the bad things from Melbourne are easily correctable. Pitstop strategy, driver errors and even technical failures can all be fixed.

The worrying question, one that I believe was raised in Melbourne but will be answered in Malaysia, is just how fast is the car compared to the McLaren? I know there were extenuating circumstances but Hamilton had an easy run and set a fastest lap 0.4+ better than Raikkonen. Kovalainen was a shade faster than that. Is there more speed in that McLaren? How much faster can they go if there is a Ferrari chasing them?
19th March 2008, 01:37
jedii

dont anyone think that they both just nackered there engines driving in traffic in very high heat and having to charge like hell if they both had started near the front and had had clear runs i think they would of both finished and won but alas they did not....
19th March 2008, 01:41
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

I don't know about that. Massa did say that it did not get pole position due to traffic on the track and Kimi had his issues with the e-pump. So, before coming out with so definite statements let's see what happens for a couple of races. How can anyone know what's the situation after just ONE race? Who saw the real Ferrari? NOBODY. So, let us be a little patient and only time will tell the reality of things. You guys know better than that.......

It was Stefano Domenicali who said what I wrote...
19th March 2008, 01:44
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Thanks for the info. Do you have a source for that info at all, or is the valve thing just a hunch at this time?

Article in a Finnish magazine, http://www.iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/t/formula1/1505712 only in finnish though
19th March 2008, 06:00
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

Kimi's win was gone the moment he got stucked behind Rubens for 19 laps and Heikki got if front of Kimi after his first pitstop. But like you say all this does not really matter as the engine woud have broke anyway.

You sure about the last one? Rallycross might have "helped" the engine trouble.
19th March 2008, 06:16
pino

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

It was Stefano Domenicali who said what I wrote...

Sorry but I didn't read/hear a single words from Domenicali about that... it must be the finnish fantasy :p :
19th March 2008, 10:14
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by pino

Sorry but I didn't read/hear a single words from Domenicali about that... it must be the finnish fantasy :p :

You should stop reading that nonsence italian media and start using more reliable news sources ;) ... here is a link to the topic anyway, in finnish but it says the same what I wrote

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutise...2008/03/624322
19th March 2008, 10:40
pino

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

You should stop reading that nonsence italian media and start using more reliable news sources ;) ... here is a link to the topic anyway, in finnish but it says the same what I wrote

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutise...2008/03/624322

Do you mind to translate that article in english or italian ? ;)
19th March 2008, 10:43
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by pino

Do you mind to translate that article in english or italian ? ;)

Says something about Galli moving to F1 :p
19th March 2008, 11:32
Shalafi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pino

Do you mind to translate that article in english or italian ? ;)

Free translation:

- Olemme jatkuvasti kärsineet tästä ongelmasta. Meidän täytyy keksiä, kuinka pystymme parantamaan aika-ajoamme, Domenicali linjasi.

"We have constantly suffer from this problem. We have to figure out how to improve our qualifying", said Domenicali.

Australian GP:n aika-ajossa paremmin sijoittunut Ferrari-kuski Felipe Massa ajoi vasta neljänteen ruutuun. Ferrarin kisavauhti oli paremmin kohdallaan.

"In qualifying Massa was only fourth. Ferraris racepace was much better, however."

- Aika-ajo on ratkaisevan tärkeä, koska takaa aloittaessa menettää niin paljon. Näimme kuinka Kimi Räikkönen oli kisassa monta kierrosta Rubens Barrichellon perässä, mutta teki vapaalle radalle päästessään suorituskyvyn ja tasaisuuden suhteen täydellisiä aikoja, Domenicali totesi.

"Qualifying is most important, because when starting from behind you lose so much time. We saw that in the race Kimi was driving behind Barrichello many laps, but when got past him, he drove perfectly consistant and fast laps that showed our true speed."
19th March 2008, 13:47
pino

Thanks Shalafi :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

What SGWilko is writing is exactly the same what Stefano Domenicali said after OZ. They are struggling to get the tyres working in qualifying, a problem they have had a long time now.

I can't find that in the translated article...can you help ? :p :
19th March 2008, 13:49
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by pino

Thanks Shalafi :up:

I can't find that in the translated article...can you help ? :p :

I helped too! Where are my thanks? :D
19th March 2008, 14:57
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by pino

I can't find that in the translated article...can you help ? :p :

For that you need to order this magazine http://www.veikkaaja.fi/

Take look of the top of the cover page from this week, says "Ferrari in panic, page 32" there is an article where it says Ferrari can't get their tires to work in qualifying. Hope this will help you enough...all in Finnish of course :p

http://kuvat2.iltasanomat.fi/iltasan...8-12_300px.jpg
19th March 2008, 18:36
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalafi

Free translation:

- Olemme jatkuvasti kärsineet tästä ongelmasta. Meidän täytyy keksiä, kuinka pystymme parantamaan aika-ajoamme, Domenicali linjasi.

"We have constantly suffer from this problem. We have to figure out how to improve our qualifying", said Domenicali.

Australian GP:n aika-ajossa paremmin sijoittunut Ferrari-kuski Felipe Massa ajoi vasta neljänteen ruutuun. Ferrarin kisavauhti oli paremmin kohdallaan.

"In qualifying Massa was only fourth. Ferraris racepace was much better, however."

- Aika-ajo on ratkaisevan tärkeä, koska takaa aloittaessa menettää niin paljon. Näimme kuinka Kimi Räikkönen oli kisassa monta kierrosta Rubens Barrichellon perässä, mutta teki vapaalle radalle päästessään suorituskyvyn ja tasaisuuden suhteen täydellisiä aikoja, Domenicali totesi.

"Qualifying is most important, because when starting from behind you lose so much time. We saw that in the race Kimi was driving behind Barrichello many laps, but when got past him, he drove perfectly consistant and fast laps that showed our true speed."

I like the Finnish language. Like Italian it has lots of vowels and double consonats :)
19th March 2008, 18:42
mstillhere

MS says that Ferrari figured out what was the problem with their cars in Australia. He would not give too many explanations about the problem but he totally excluded the engine being part of the problem. He refers to something else (what it is is a mistery :( ) and still says that Ferrari still be the next world champion. The site is:
http://it.eurosport.yahoo.com/190320...commett-0.html.
It is in Italian but I can translate it in Finnish if you want me to. :)
19th March 2008, 20:04
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

It is in Italian but I can translate it in Finnish if you want me to. :)

Yes please :up:

:D
19th March 2008, 20:13
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

MS says that Ferrari figured out what was the problem with their cars in Australia. He would not give too many explanations about the problem but he totally excluded the engine being part of the problem. He refers to something else (what it is is a mistery :( ) and still says that Ferrari still be the next world champion. The site is:
http://it.eurosport.yahoo.com/190320...commett-0.html.
It is in Italian but I can translate it in Finnish if you want me to. :)

So basically it is something that had to do with the engine but not something within the engine itself! ECU anyone???

As for Felipe's first lap spin they put it down to the wrong gear being selected, but they don't know why it happened. Now this is strange, unless I did not understand it right. :D
19th March 2008, 21:25
mstillhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

So basically it is something that had to do with the engine but not something within the engine itself! ECU anyone???

As for Felipe's first lap spin they put it down to the wrong gear being selected, but they don't know why it happened. Now this is strange, unless I did not understand it right. :D

I don't know. In the article MS keeps his lips very tight. I have a feeling though (and he does not say that in so many words) it could also have been something causing overheating. But...again not too sure.
19th March 2008, 22:50
DonJippo

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstillhere

it could also have been something causing overheating. But...again not too sure.

That would be in line with the news there were about Ferrari's problems during winter testing.
19th March 2008, 23:50
Ari

1 / 18.

There's a long way to go fellas (and ladies!)

Ferrari will be fine.
20th March 2008, 02:08
markabilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonJippo

For that you need to order this magazine http://www.veikkaaja.fi/

Take look of the top of the cover page from this week, says "Ferrari in panic, page 32" there is an article where it says Ferrari can't get their tires to work in qualifying. Hope this will help you enough...all in Finnish of course :p

Tires don't work?
More evidence of sabotage using the ECU inflicted by those cheaters!!! :eek:
20th March 2008, 02:47
mstillhere

More from Italy about the level of engament at Ferrari's. Montezemolo today stating that in Sepang we'll see the real Ferrari.
(http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formul...ontetodt.shtml)

I don't know why, but when he gets involved for some reason I see heads rolling left and right. It must no be pretty at Ferrari's right now.

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