Renault investigated by FIA !

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Just a question (not directly to Passmeatissue, more a general one).....have the disks been found at Renault, like the dossier was found in the possession of a Mclaren designer?

If they have, then Renault are in the same boat.

If they haven't, then there isn't any hard evidence.

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There's a good summary (as so often) on grandprix.com...

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19845.html

Since Flav is agreeing that the issue does exist, I am pretty sure there is hard evidence, otherwise he would have denied it. I feel there are too many specifics for this to be an empty allegation. There was a story that Flav visited the Macca motorhome (or whatever it is in Ronspeak) and signed some kind of agreement, which Ron tried to present at the WMSC hearing. I was afraid that in return Ron had agreed not to "complain" to the FIA, but apparently not so.

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

There's a good summary (as so often) on grandprix.com...

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19845.html

Since Flav is agreeing that the issue does exist, I am pretty sure there is hard evidence, otherwise he would have denied it. I feel there are too many specifics for this to be an empty allegation. There was a story that Flav visited the Macca motorhome (or whatever it is in Ronspeak) and signed some kind of agreement, which Ron tried to present at the WMSC hearing. I was afraid that in return Ron had agreed not to "complain" to the FIA, but apparently not so.

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Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Shouldn't someone be getting upset at the title of this thread ?

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No French forum members, no Renault fans, no moderator who's fan of Renault either. So I guess it's OK!

Nevertheless a good point to start with! ;)

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Originally Posted by passmeatissue

There's a good summary (as so often) on grandprix.com...

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19845.html

Since Flav is agreeing that the issue does exist, I am pretty sure there is hard evidence, otherwise he would have denied it. I feel there are too many specifics for this to be an empty allegation. There was a story that Flav visited the Macca motorhome (or whatever it is in Ronspeak) and signed some kind of agreement, which Ron tried to present at the WMSC hearing. I was afraid that in return Ron had agreed not to "complain" to the FIA, but apparently not so.

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There are some holes in their article especially when they say that it wasn't proved that McLaren used Ferrari data, when we all know that their drivers were using Ferrari data during testing.
So yeah a "reliable" and "unbiased" source they are. :s

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Originally Posted by ioan

There are some holes in their article especially when they say that it wasn't proved that McLaren used Ferrari data, when we all know that their drivers were using Ferrari data during testing.
So yeah a "reliable" and "unbiased" source they are. :s

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I know of episodes of Only Fools & Horses that get repeated less times on UKTV Gold than you repeat the 'Ferrari Data' chestnut.

:rolleyes: ;)

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Well, the FIA could pull the same trick as they are going to try with McLaren. "That component looks dodgy, lets stuff 'em"

Unfortunately, the FIA set a very dangerous precedent pandering to the Ferrari machine, and cannot now be seen to be doing anything other than blowing the whistle on the whole incestuous world that is F1. It will be fun watching Charlie Farley boys looking for those elusive needles within all those haystacks. :p :

You never know, Max might decide he fancies retirement after all........ ;)

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The FIA is not bound, on any decision, to previous case law so precedent means nothing. They could find a Williams with parts stamped "Made by Ferrari" all over it, copies of the entire 2008 testing program, and phone records of a 100 calls from Massa and do nothing at all or fine Sir Frank $1.00 and tell him to take the parts off the car.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

The FIA is not bound, on any decision, to previous case law so precedent means nothing. They could find a Williams with parts stamped "Made by Ferrari" all over it, copies of the entire 2008 testing program, and phone records of a 100 calls from Massa and do nothing at all or fine Sir Frank $1.00 and tell him to take the parts off the car.

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Good point.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Mclaren's defence of the original spying charge was that the MP4/22 was totally different to the F2007 and so the info was unusable.

If they, Mclaren, are going to accuse Renault of using the data they have allegedly received, doesn't that also prove that Mclaren lied at the September hearing?

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Originally Posted by tamburello

If they, Mclaren, are going to accuse Renault of using the data they have allegedly received, doesn't that also prove that Mclaren lied at the September hearing?

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Do they need to prove they used it? Being in possession of it, as was the FIA case with McLaren re the Ferrari papers, ought to be enough for a $100m fine and constructors point removal?

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Originally Posted by tamburello

If they, Mclaren, are going to accuse Renault of using the data they have allegedly received, doesn't that also prove that Mclaren lied at the September hearing?

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Could you expand on that please tamburello?

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

The FIA is not bound, on any decision, to previous case law so precedent means nothing.

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And therein rests a real problem. With rules being open to interpretation, and penalties being inconsistent, how can fairness be applied consistently for all competitors?