NETFLIX - Schumacher

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I don't really get your point here as there was parallel development going on between Mercedes 2014 and 2013 car. Mercedes never really put huge development into 2013.

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Yes, much like this 2021 car, Mercedes was putting together the car for the hybrid regulations of 2014 in parallel to the 2013 car. Since they had signed Hamilton in 2013, Schumacher would have ceased to be involved in the 2014 car. The point l am making is, you cannot attribute all of Mercedes successful cars since 2014 to Schumacher. Like Rosberg, Schumacher contributed to developing the Mercedes platform. You go on as if he solely, was responsible for Mercedes success.

Some would like one of the two GOATs for personal reasons. I personally like both.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Your comment is not aimed at Hamilton specifically but all F1 champions. Any motor racing series is also broadly in the crosshairs of your comment. So you are essentially saying all motorsport is crap. And all drivers in those series are privileged few in very limited seats for each of those series.

I think you should stop a moment and think about what you are saying.

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If I thought all motorsport was crap, I wouldn't watch it so that is obviously not the case. I love driving, I used to race online, enjoy good racing and the spectacle rather than falling into a driver fan camp like you have.. which I feel affects peoples reasoning, logic and objectivity quite substantially when chatting about F1.
We are obviously different types of fans, I'm just a general motorsport/F1 fan with no particular favourite driver or team but I do tend to back an underdog and watching fresh young talent coming through and doing well pleases me more than a single driver or team totally dominating.

I don't understand how some can gravitate towards a single driver and declare him the best ever, a GOAT etc I find that unfathomable and quite bizarre considering its not a Spec series.

I suspect my lack of reverence comes from racing online against phenomenally quick guys online on a new track and in a new car, being a couple of seconds off the pace even after a couple of hours in despite it feeling and thinking their pace was incredible, world class that they must be aliens but just plugging away and after a spending many more hours (20-30+) finding small chunks here and there through different lines and techniques etc, also optimising car setup and studying them closely I was eventually able to be competitive and be just as quick as they were.

Like their real life counterparts, they are all just mere mortals like you and I and I don't think not looking up to them in reverence is disrespectful.. or has 'dishonoured' them as you put it although I think I understand why you might see it that way.

Although the current cars are the fastest ever, I still find the V10 era battles (ie Schumacher and Alonso) far more spectacular and exciting to watch than even what we have had this year between Lewis than Max. No disrespect to either of them, I guess I'm just still have a big soft spot for the NA soundtrack. :s

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Originally Posted by Zico

If I thought all motorsport was crap, I wouldn't watch it so that is obviously not the case. I love driving, I used to race online, enjoy good racing and the spectacle rather than falling into a driver fan camp like you have.. which I feel affects peoples reasoning, logic and objectivity quite substantially when chatting about F1.
We are obviously different types of fans, I'm just a general motorsport/F1 fan with no particular favourite driver or team but I do tend to back an underdog and watching fresh young talent coming through and doing well pleases me more than a single driver or team totally dominating.

I don't understand how some can gravitate towards a single driver and declare him the best ever, a GOAT etc I find that unfathomable and quite bizarre considering its not a Spec series.

I suspect my lack of reverence comes from racing online against phenomenally quick guys online on a new track and in a new car, being a couple of seconds off the pace even after a couple of hours in despite it feeling and thinking their pace was incredible, world class that they must be aliens but just plugging away and after a spending many more hours (20-30+) finding small chunks here and there through different lines and techniques etc, also optimising car setup and studying them closely I was eventually able to be competitive and be just as quick as they were.

Like their real life counterparts, they are all just mere mortals like you and I and I don't think not looking up to them in reverence is disrespectful.. or has 'dishonoured' them as you put it although I think I understand why you might see it that way.

Although the current cars are the fastest ever, I still find the V10 era battles (ie Schumacher and Alonso) far more spectacular and exciting to watch than even what we have had this year between Lewis than Max. No disrespect to either of them, I guess I'm just still have a big soft spot for the NA soundtrack. :s

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You disappointingly fail to look at peoples comments without taking a defensive stance. slinging insults is not dialogue but ineptitude. Appreciating a driver for his talent is not necessarily joining a fan club. I find your attitude very juvenile.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

You disappointingly fail to look at peoples comments without taking a defensive stance. slinging insults is not dialogue but ineptitude. Appreciating a driver for his talent is not necessarily joining a fan club. I find your attitude very juvenile.

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A defensive stance is defending your POV or stance in a discussion where someone disagrees with you, its perfectly normal, everyone does it, yourself included. In fact you just did it in your own reply just there.

Insults? You disagreed with me but then in your very next post totally agreed with Airshifter who had said pretty much the exact same thing... so unless you have completely changed your mind and actually now also agree with me, you are not being objective, rational or making a whole lot of sense.

I'm sorry you have taken my comments and observations that way but hey ho.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

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We'll have to agree to differ. I really don't think Hamilton is and has ever been on the same level as Schumacher. Hamilton showed flashes of brilliance here and there but nothing compared to what Schumacher was able to do on a consistent basis. It's hard to even begin to count the number of races Schumacher won out of sheer brilliance throughout the years in an inferior car. Hamilton did this as well from time to time just not nearly as often.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

What makes hamilton stand out to me as one of the greatest of all times is not his 6 titles with mercedes, but his very first year with mclaren in 2007.
Coming into the sport as a rookie and ending equal to alonso, who is considered one of the best drivers of the last 2 decades and who had just won the 2 previous championships.
Missing the title by only 1 point in his rookie year, and winning it in his second.

That was an extraordinary achievement, far more than winning titles with a car that was a second faster than all the rest.

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Agree on both counts. Schumacher won in a car that wasn't up to winning standards at the time, and built up a team around him to reach the point of having the dominant car. And has been pointed out by TBK, went on to help develop the car that became the dominant Merc.

Lewis hanging with Alonso was a much harder task than what he has done in recent years in the Merc. The Merc combination was just so dominant that it was a matter of being there at that point, not having to fight hard. Similar happened at the dominant years for Ferrari and Schumacher, the primary difference being that he joined when the team was a mess.

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Originally Posted by Zico

<snipped>
Like their real life counterparts, they are all just mere mortals like you and I and I don't think not looking up to them in reverence is disrespectful.. or has 'dishonoured' them as you put it although I think I understand why you might see it that way.

Although the current cars are the fastest ever, I still find the V10 era battles (ie Schumacher and Alonso) far more spectacular and exciting to watch than even what we have had this year between Lewis than Max. No disrespect to either of them, I guess I'm just still have a big soft spot for the NA soundtrack. :s

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As for the first part... exactly. Just like many other professions they work hard to get to the top, but they are just people still. In my younger years before the fans became more fanatical and people were kept from them more I got to meet a number of high level motocross and motorcycle riders, as well as some of the big Baja racers. Back then they didn't need security due to swarms of people mobbing them, and some were fairly laid back.

As for hybrid era vs the old screamers, there was noting like the soundtrack of the V10 and V8 cars. Recently it also hit me that it changed the way racers race as well. With the initial hybrid era the limited extra power boost started it, and even now it influences the race pace. Often drivers use that extra power to attack, or defend. If you get two savvy drivers with close equipment, often there are laps of hard attack and defend, a slower lap to get batteries back up to full, then rinse and repeat. Before the hybrids, that breathing room didn't exist. A full on attack might last for many laps.


And that is where MS was at his best, full on attack or defend mode. Barring a few uncharacteristic mistakes, he could do either for a full race it seemed.

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Originally Posted by Zico

A defensive stance is defending your POV or stance in a discussion where someone disagrees with you, its perfectly normal, everyone does it, yourself included. In fact you just did it in your own reply just there.

Insults? You disagreed with me but then in your very next post totally agreed with Airshifter who had said pretty much the exact same thing... so unless you have completely changed your mind and actually now also agree with me, you are not being objective, rational or making a whole lot of sense.

I'm sorry you have taken my comments and observations that way but hey ho.

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I did not call you names. But you have persistently referred to me as a fan club member or something of that nature. I find that very insulting. Also, you could have spent a little more time addressing my point in my reply to you instead. Please go back and read my initial response to your post with a cool head. You would find l agreed with you on some points and disagreed on others. Do you prefer l agree with everything you post? There is no need to start calling people fanboy etc, it is so juvenile.

How you presented your views were different to how Airshifter presented his. I addressed certain aspects of your post. And addressed certain aspects of Airshifter's post. These aspects are different between both of your posts.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

I did not call you names. But you have persistently referred to me as a fan club member or something of that nature. I find that very insulting. Also, you could have spent a little more time addressing my point in my reply to you instead. Please go back and read my initial response to your post with a cool head. You would find l agreed with you on some points and disagreed on others. Do you prefer l agree with everything you post? There is no need to start calling people fanboy etc, it is so juvenile.

How you presented your views were different to how Airshifter presented his. I addressed certain aspects of your post. And addressed certain aspects of Airshifter's post. These aspects are different between both of your posts.

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You called him inept and juvenile , after he had just apologized .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

You called him inept and juvenile , after he had just apologized .

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Baggie to the rescue!
What l said, simply describes accurately his conduct. Even you do not stupe to calling people Fanboy, fan club member etc. This is not kindergarten.

Micheal Schumacher was special because he established himself as a championship material in the presence of some of the finest racers in F1 history. Racing against World champions like Senna, Prost, Mansell etc and beating them. He is without a doubt a GOAT of F1.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Baggie to the rescue!
What l said, simply describes accurately his conduct. Even you do not stupe to calling people Fanboy, fan club member etc. This is not kindergarten.

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I simply pointed out that you had started the quoted post with saying you did not call him names when you clearly had done exactly that .

Read that post again and take some of your own advice , please .