Bernie troubles

Let's just hope Bernie gets off because F1 doesn't need another black eye, especially now when things are "supposedly" so bad already. I'm sure $100 is big money even for Bernie, but I'm sure he will pay it gladly. He's already coughed up $40 mil for the bribe/extortion (or whatever it was). Maybe Bernie will even be financially ruined, but we surely don't want to see someone that old (and probably frail) locked up for the rest of his life......not after as much as Bernie had done to pull F1out of the dark ages and into what we have today.

No matter what Bernie did, it's not like this is Nuremberg.

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

Anyway, I always think the arguments about where F1 is with Bernie are slightly overplayed. I mean without him F1 would have continued in most probability and safety would still have been improved no matter who ran it.

It might not be where it is now, but that may not have been a bad thing.

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Some people would probably be richer, others poorer. Can't say I care.

What I do care a bit about is the fact that F1's image is being harmed by Ecclestone's continued involvement, whether he's guilty or not.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

What I do care a bit about is the fact that F1's image is being harmed by Ecclestone's continued involvement, whether he's guilty or not.

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Bernie isn't going to live forever. He's really not looking so good, which is to be expected considering his age and the level of stress he is under. I hope he gets off and disappears, and goes off somewhere to live his last days peacefully. We had a shit sport until Bernie took over, and even if he got rich and really did screw everyone, we are still a lot better off than if he never came along.

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Originally Posted by Doc Austin

We had a shit sport until Bernie took over

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Really? There were aspects that Ecclestone (I refuse just to call him by his first name — after all, I don't know him) did improve, but it was by no means a 'shit sport' prior to his arrival. I'm afraid I have never subscribed to the supposed gratitude — which can often translate into exaggerated praise — that all F1 enthusiasts are meant to display towards him.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

There were aspects that Ecclestone (I refuse just to call him by his first name — after all, I don't know him) did improve, but it was by no means a 'shit sport' prior to his arrival.

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There was zero TV coverage in the US, so to me, that was not very good. Fully 1/3 of the drivers who started the opening Grand Prix of 1971 were dead before the season was over, so I thought that kind of safety record was bad as well. The teams raced hand to mouth, so that was no good either.

It was basically a stupidly expensive, stupidly dangerous sport that got no where near the media coverage it deserved and needed to pull itself into the arena of world class sports. It took Bernie getting the TV package put together that got F1's real commercial success off the ground.

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I'm afraid I have never subscribed to the supposed gratitude — which can often translate into exaggerated praise — that all F1 enthusiasts are meant to display towards him.

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I dunno. Bernie screwed a lot of stuff up too, but for the most part he will certainly leave F1 a whole universe of better than the way he found it.

Gratitude is that Bernie offered each of the teams a buy in after he acquired the TV rights. It was not like he was a greedy bastard tying to steal it all for himself. He offered an equal piece to everyone and no one took him up on it. It's just their tough luck that he made it work.

No one wanted in, so it was all of Bernie's money and all of Bernie's risk and all of Bernie's business savvy that drug the sport out of what was essentially the dark ages.

I'm sure there were lots and lots of dirty deals and I am sure Bernie got his money back over and over and over. Thing is, no one else was wanting to stand up and even take a lame ass stab at making things better, but Bernie laid out his own money to make it work. I'm a bit grateful for that, and you probably should be too.

Of course, you can't give Bernie complete credit for the safety innovations. I think the FIA would have been perfectly happy killing five or six guys a year just as part of doing business, that is, until Jackie Stewart came along. He told everyone how it was too dangerous and then went out and stomped all their asses. Maybe Bernie jumped on a little later, but in the beginning, it was all Stewart.

Anyway, Bernie is old as shit and it's hard to imagine he feels really good, especially with this kind of strain on such an old heart. He might be a tough old bastard, but coughing up $100000000 is enough to give a young dude a heart attack. I can't see Bernie living forever, so if you don't like him, you probably won't have to worry about it too much longer.

Personally I would have rather seen him sell off all his interests, get on a 500 foot Yacht and sail off into the sunset.

I think if you didn't like Bernie, the new guys will probably be even less fun.

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Originally Posted by Doc Austin

Bernie isn't going to live forever. He's really not looking so good, which is to be expected considering his age and the level of stress he is under. I hope he gets off and disappears, and goes off somewhere to live his last days peacefully. We had a shit sport until Bernie took over, and even if he got rich and really did screw everyone, we are still a lot better off than if he never came along.

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I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a shit sport, but Bernie did a great deal to level the playing field of the sport, and allow smaller teams a chance to compete. He also hired Sid Watkins, and took most of Sid's advice on safety issues, making the sport much safer than it had every been prior to them joining forces. Without Bernie, Sid, and several key drivers I personally think a lot more F1 drivers would have found an early grave.

As for the commercialization of the sport, he was the driving force IMO. A great many of us might not have ever seen more than a few races on TV if not for the promotion of the sport which made BE so wealthy. I can hardly fault him for introducing the sport to a much larger audience. And certainly the teams never suffered from getting all that TV revenue either.

Though he has had some ideas I don't care for, overall he had done a huge amount for the sport, and IMO probably more than any other single individual.



And in this current situation, I have no idea who is telling the truth. But I do think that if Bernie went to court to prove his innocence (if we were to assume that is the case) it would probably still do a lot more damage to the F1 image than if he took his current path. Being he's worth somewhere around 4-5 billion, 100 million dollars certainly isn't going to keep him from eating well by any means.

I don't think many F1 fans would deny that Bernie has done some good for F1.

He saw a gap in the market where the sport wasn't really being promoted and a product that could be sold to TV companies that increased the wealth of the sport.

But... Its been a long time since he had the interests of the fans and the people who make the sport what it is. His ventures have expanded and he became incredibly greedy at the expense of those who keep the sport popular. The sport had a rich history way before Bernie came along, and it was this history that helped promote it as a prestigious event, something he built on. He simply raised the profile by increasing its perceived value, a value I think is over hyped. Its only now as he slowly sells off the broadcasting rights to pay TV companies across the world for quick cash that we realise the sport has been popular due to accessibility. Once this accessibility is removed and we see fans forced into a kind of class system where you either pay or don't pay to watch, we realise the demand isn't quite as large as Bernie had hoped. Obviously he's putting a brave, almost arrogant facade because the cash is there and financially nobody has lost out yet, but this business model is treading water.

This is only the tip of the iceberg and when we review all the shady deals Bernie has done over the years, the businessmen and politicians he has bribed, not to mention the circuits he has squeezed, its not surprising it would catch up with him one day. I could see him and Rolf Harris getting on very well counting the painted breeze blocks in the walls of Her Majesty's Hotel. :D

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a shit sport, but Bernie did a great deal to level the playing field of the sport, and allow smaller teams a chance to compete.

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Really? He killed off the privateer entrants almost as soon as he started running things. And he doesn't care one jot for the existence today's smaller teams. After all, he has gone as far as to say he doesn't believe the recent additions have added anything to the sport.

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...I do know that F1 has continued to build on its history under his watch and that is a positive thing.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

What does that actually mean?

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F1 has a rich history with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart and Lauda being worthily joined by Schumacher, Alonso, Hakkinen and Vettel. All are synonymous with F1.

Mr Ecclestone's ultimate legacy may very well be that the F1 drivers champion of today is, at worst, the equal of the champion of yesteryear.

F1, under Mr Ecclestone's watch, has managed to change as the times dictate whilst remaining the ultimate career destination for the best drivers on the planet.

That is what building on history means to me. :)

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

F1 has a rich history with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart and Lauda being worthily joined by Schumacher, Alonso, Hakkinen and Vettel. All are synonymous with F1.

Mr Ecclestone's ultimate legacy may very well be that the F1 drivers champion of today is, at worst, the equal of the champion of yesteryear.

F1, under Mr Ecclestone's watch, has managed to change as the times dictate whilst remaining the ultimate career destination for the best drivers on the planet.

That is what building on history means to me. :)

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Bernie is not responsible for these great drivers progressing through their early careers and being picked by great teams who then give them the cars in order to produce great results. The teams have pushed for changes as much as anybody and the FIA (previously FISA) have also had their part in making the sport what it is today. Bernie has had an influence yes, but he also marketed the sport largely for his own gains and has priced many teams out.

The sport was always going to have a rich history. If anything I think the sport has been held back in recent years by not embracing modern trends, especially where fans are concerned. They are so wrapped up in making content unavailable and making sure the F1 website is as basic as possible that they have missed a trick. F1 is at least a decade behind other major sports and its been held back to maximise profit rather than appeal.