10 grand? Seriously???!!!

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

Interesting, but I personally would hate to see TC back. I like the cars being difficult to drive.

What I would do, is get rid of the limited fuel. I would either give them as much fuel as they need or maybe even bring back refuelling.

To be honest. I am enjoying F1 so far this season, but I cant see F1 improving in the longer term for me, because the sport IMO is getting to bogged down.

Its hard to decide. Technology is important but that leads to less driver input and a lesser sporting challenge.

I guess the answer is that everyone wants and likes different things.

What does seem certain is the number of people losing interest in F1 is increasing.

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^ +1.

I like to see the cars being more difficult to drive which puts more emphasis on driver skill. If anything, I'd actually like to see the aero reduced even further.

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Originally Posted by philipbain

(Snip) ........The only constant in change and F1's new regs have been a step in the right direction, encouraging the development of high performance hybrid drive train technology which should trickle down to the products driven on the road by you and I meaning we can all drive further on less fuel and limit the environmental impact of motoring whilst reducing the rate of depletion of a finite source of energy. Thats right, this is about a much bigger picture, in this context moaning about a reduced level of noise is pretty pathetic!

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Pathetic? I don't think so. You have raised some valid points and yes you are certainly right about there being the all important much bigger picture.... but doesn't that bigger picture also have to include and maintain a certain appeal to a large part of the demographic of F1 fans who seek high entertainment value and consider the sound to be an important part of the spectacle? There has to be a balance... if that part is ignored and viewing figures fall through the floor then surely advertising in F1 becomes devalued by team sponsors which in turn impacts the teams budgets and the value of participating in the sport and so on.....

Also, combined with the above.
Despite what the general public may think, the current hybrid drive/energy harvesting systems used in F1 are actually nothing new. It is also nigh on impossible that the manufacturers could find a loophole which would allow a new innovative, ground breaking, green technology to be found and developed within the extremely tight, current F1 technical regulations.
For the first time I find myself actually agreeing with BE that other racing formats perhaps such as the Endurance Sports Car Racing class LMP1, which is just as technologically advanced as F1 if not more so, is just much better suited to finding breakthroughs in the design and development of Hybrid Drive/Energy Harvesting Technology which will still percolate down to road car level and also fits in to the 'endurance' aspect of that sport format much more naturally.

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Originally Posted by Zico

^ +1.

I like to see the cars being more difficult to drive which puts more emphasis on driver skill. If anything, I'd actually like to see the aero reduced even further..

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Me too, aero plays to huge a part in not allowing cars to follow. I would rather have less aero and cars able to battle closely. Then we can get rid of DRS too, which even after all these years I still believe to be unfair.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Also, combined with the above.
Despite what the general public may think, the current hybrid drive/energy harvesting systems used in F1 are actually nothing new. It is also nigh on impossible that the manufacturers could find a loophole which would allow a new innovative, ground breaking, green technology to be found and developed within the extremely tight, current F1 technical regulations.
For the first time I find myself actually agreeing with BE that other racing formats perhaps such as the Endurance Sports Car Racing class LMP1, which is just as technologically advanced as F1 if not more so, is just much better suited to finding breakthroughs in the design and development of Hybrid Drive/Energy Harvesting Technology which will still percolate down to road car level and also fits in to the 'endurance' aspect of that sport format much more naturally.

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Zico

Pathetic? I don't think so. You have raised some valid points and yes you are certainly right about there being the all important much bigger picture.... but doesn't that bigger picture also have to include and maintain a certain appeal to a large part of the demographic of F1 fans who seek high entertainment value and consider the sound to be an important part of the spectacle?

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No

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Originally Posted by Zico

There has to be a balance... if that part is ignored and viewing figures fall through the floor then surely advertising in F1 becomes devalued by team sponsors which in turn impacts the teams budgets and the value of participating in the sport and so on.....

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Where it loses in one area, it gains in another. If F1 keeps the same rules, I will attend the GP in Melbourne, whereas I otherwise don't. No balance is necessary. Fans are not really that important. Hence, we have race like Bahrain, that have smaller crowds. To add further, the fairweather fans who don't like these new rules, will find something else they won't like about F1 down the track.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Also, combined with the above.
Despite what the general public may think, the current hybrid drive/energy harvesting systems used in F1 are actually nothing new. It is also nigh on impossible that the manufacturers could find a loophole which would allow a new innovative, ground breaking, green technology to be found and developed within the extremely tight, current F1 technical regulations.
For the first time I find myself actually agreeing with BE that other racing formats perhaps such as the Endurance Sports Car Racing class LMP1, which is just as technologically advanced as F1 if not more so, is just much better suited to finding breakthroughs in the design and development of Hybrid Drive/Energy Harvesting Technology which will still percolate down to road car level and also fits in to the 'endurance' aspect of that sport format much more naturally.

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Fundamentally, what you and Bernie don't get, is that F1 concedes it status as the highest level of motorsport, if it doesn't apply these technologies. It might not be that obvious to you, but it does.

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Originally Posted by journeyman racer

No

No balance is necessary. Fans are not really that important..

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I'm almost speechless! Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Zico

I'm almost speechless! Seriously?

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Yer of course. Even if not one person turned up to the races and the TV viewership was 0, they of course would just carry on racing and companys would play millions for advertising to no one.

philipbain, all the arguments you made are perfectly valid and satisfy my scientific mind (especially about the exhaust gases being used rather than wasted and hence getting max efficiency of any machine)
but what it does not satisfy (and no logic ever will) is the longing for a very loud and crazy sounding race car.
Many if not most (?) racing fans have grown up with a racing car making a racket (as you put it) and that racket has always been an intrinsic part of the race fans' enjoyment of the racing.

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Originally Posted by Storm

philipbain, all the arguments you made are perfectly valid and satisfy my scientific mind (especially about the exhaust gases being used rather than wasted and hence getting max efficiency of any machine)
but what it does not satisfy (and no logic ever will) is the longing for a very loud and crazy sounding race car.
Many if not most (?) racing fans have grown up with a racing car making a racket (as you put it) and that racket has always been an intrinsic part of the race fans' enjoyment of the racing.

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It seems that "noise" lobby have been heard and the teams with the FIA are looking into how to increase the aural impact of the latest cars, with solutions likely to be tested at the post-Barcelona test, F1 is full of very clever engineers and i'm sure that they will come up with a solution to make the cars a little more tuneful, though for me, having races of the quality of yesterday's is a higher priority!

Link: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113317

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Originally Posted by philipbain

It seems that "noise" lobby have been heard and the teams with the FIA are looking into how to increase the aural impact of the latest cars, with solutions likely to be tested at the post-Barcelona test, F1 is full of very clever engineers and i'm sure that they will come up with a solution to make the cars a little more tuneful, though for me, having races of the quality of yesterday's is a higher priority!

Link: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113317

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Brilliant news.
Its just a small part of the show but its important IMO. We can have races like yesterday even if the sound is tuned differently. I can't see a logical reason why changing the sound would stop an exciting race? Anyway, good news for everybody.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Brilliant news.
Its just a small part of the show but its important IMO. We can have races like yesterday even if the sound is tuned differently. I can't see a logical reason why changing the sound would stop an exciting race? Anyway, good news for everybody.

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I wasn't inferring that sorting the noise out will have any impact on the racing, I was just saying that I see good quality racing as being of greater importance than the way the cars sound, that is all!

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Originally Posted by philipbain

I wasn't inferring that sorting the noise out will have any impact on the racing, I was just saying that I see good quality racing as being of greater importance than the way the cars sound, that is all!

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I agree the racing comes first, but there is nothing wrong with sorting the noise out as well. It can be done without engineer's neglecting the racing side of things and its good news for fans like myself who thought the engines sounded weak. Good news all round.