Red Bull Abolish team orders..

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Originally Posted by henners88

That's the image you hold personally, not everyone. Neither driver has a squeaky clean past but Marks public admissions or condemnations earn him more respect from 'some' of us.

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If you followed the discussions over the last 3 weeks, you'll know that I think that Mark's admissions were much more credible than Vettel's half-arsed apology, but even the stoutest Mark supporter will have a hard time coming up with a good explanation for Mark's behaviour after Malaysia. He said in the past that we doesn't think much of team orders, but when it helps him he expects Vettel to obey them and sulks when he doesn't. That's either unbelievably naive or just hypocrisy.

I agree that neither of them has a clean past, so I see no reason to applaud Mark for the same that Vettel is getting blasted for. In the end RB did the right thing and abolished this whole idea. In the end it might end up giving us more excitement, even if it costs RB points and I would hazard a guess that not too many people around here will be overly sad to see RB and vettel in particular losing some points :D

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

If you followed the discussions over the last 3 weeks, you'll know that I think that Mark's admissions were much more credible than Vettel's half-arsed apology, but even the stoutest Mark supporter will have a hard time coming up with a good explanation for Mark's behaviour after Malaysia. He said in the past that we doesn't think much of team orders, but when it helps him he expects Vettel to obey them and sulks when he doesn't. That's either unbelievably naive or just hypocrisy.

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I think Red Bull's reaction was as much telling as Mark's with them not being best pleased about being ignored either. Mark may well have threatened to ignore team orders in the past, but he didn't pass and win a race which is why I think Vettel is getting more of a hard time for doing so. We've been over all that before though and nothing has changed.

I don't think it is a case of Red Bull abolishing team orders but more that they have no choice because neither driver is prepared to obey them anyway. I think Vettel has shot himself in the foot a little too early in this championship. I can't see Webber wishing to stay with Red Bull past the end of this season and I think Red Bull will be looking for a driver that would rather support than win in any case. The problem they have now is if they need Webber to help a little towards the end of the year like he has in previous years? If I was Webber I would end my Red Bull career on a high by preventing my team mate win his fourth title if the opportunity comes up. Sod handing a race win back to Mark, lets just forget it for now and let Mark return the favour when he deems fit. As you said Mark has made his bed, now he must sleep in it. The same can now be said of Vettel and the situation he has created through greed. Its going to be an exciting year for those of us not particularly supporting either! :D

Mr Vettle announces that (1) he did not understand that there was a team order to not to pass Mark :rolleyes: ; (2) if he had it to do over, he would think about it, and probably do the same thing again :vader: and(3) the reason is that "Webber did not deserve victory" .


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106631

The headline says it all as it read:Red Bull kippt Stallorder für Vettel!

In other words, for Vettel, the team orders shall be abolished

it goes on to read:

"Red Bull flips for the world champion the install order. This means for the Grand Prix of China next weekend and for all remaining races of the season: free ride for Sebastian Vettel"

Appearantly the reason is that the owner was very unhappy about all the flak taken by Vettel over his disobeying team orders, so the owner decides no more team orders. :hot:


Call it cutting the Gordian Knot to make your boy happy.... :imubash: .



then Mr. Vettel announces that Webber did not deserve victory anyway.... :love:

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Originally Posted by Mr Alca-Tazizzle

I hear you bro. What about secret team orders. ;)

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You mean as to who will have a bit more fuel, so the other runs out of gas first???????

Or as brawn said about team orders: that we would look a bit foolish if we let both cars run out of fuel.......

or who gets the better tire strategy??? or why Webber's car does not always have that great start????

Or the old 'Please don't use your KERS, we think there is a fault' line. Webber has had more than his fair share of these failures in the past or so many of us think ;)

"because Mark doesn't deserve that" (victory)

Seems vettel is getting a bit arrogant towards his team..claiming that he misunderstood but would do it again

Earlier Horner said:

When asked why the team did not ask Vettel to relinquish the position to Webber in the closing stages to make up for his defiance, Horner said: "Do you honestly think that if we had told him 'slow down and give the place back', he would have given it back?
"There was no point. He had made it quite clear what his intention was by making the move. He knew what the communication was. He had had the communication. He chose to ignore it.
"He put his interest beyond what the team's position was. He was focused on those seven points difference between second and first place - which was wrong. He has accepted it was wrong."

Malaysian GP: Red Bull sure Vettel flouted team order deliberately - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com


worth a read: http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsp...ry/105112.html



So now, Vettel says, differently and a big "so what" to everyone.....


"Maybe it is a little bit of a dreamland that you all live in, but what do you expect to happen?" said Vettel. "Make a suggestion!"

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Not a single one

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That's not to say he hasn't benefited from them. BBC Sport - Chinese Grand Prix: Webber & Vettel wounds have never healed

2011 British GP - Webber may have broken team orders but no to the extent of taking a win from them.

Yes but I don't think anyone really cares. I posted link to the BBC version in the Red Bull Team orders thread but nobody on here seems surprised or seems to consider it worthy of a comment.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Meanwhile...

"Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel says he would "probably" ignore team orders again if he was instructed not to challenge team-mate Mark Webber.
Vettel was asked if he would repeat his actions from the Malaysian Grand Prix.
He said: "I'm not sure I can give a proper answer because in the moment it might be different but I would probably do the same."
Vettel added his move was "indirectly" a form of payback for what he said was a lack of past support from Webber.
Vettel said: "I never had support from his side. I have a lot of support from the team and think they are supporting both of us the same way. I respect Mark as a racing driver but there was more than one occasion in the past when he could have helped the team and he didn't."
Vettel was asked if he was getting revenge for Webber being less than helpful in last year's title-deciding race in Brazil, when Webber appeared to be obstructive twice despite being told by the team to help Vettel in his championship battle with Ferrari's Fernando Alonso.

The German replied: "Probably you could say indirectly so."
Vettel did not mention the several times in the past that Webber has obeyed team orders not to challenge Vettel, even when he felt he was faster and was himself a title contender - as for example in Canada, Japan and Brazil in 2010.
Asked if he would have given the place back had team principal Christian Horner ordered him to do so over the radio, Vettel said: "I didn't mean to ignore the team's order. I heard it, but I didn't understand it the proper way. I apologised for that.
"Had I understood, I think (if) I had thought about it and reflected on what leaving Mark in first place meant, I probably would have done the same thing because Mark doesn't deserve that."
Vettel explained that he did not initially understand the team's message "Multi 21" - a coded team order for Webber (car number two) to finish ahead of Vettel (car number one).
Webber experienced the same confusion in Brazil last year, when he was given the message "Multi 12" - an order for Vettel to finish ahead of Webber.
Vettel said he had not been punished by the team.
"I did speak up and apologise," he said. "Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen? We dealt with it internally. I did apologise to the team as soon as I could, the whole team, not just the people working here."
He admitted his actions had undermined Horner's authority.
"You could say so," Vettel said, "but I went to talk to everyone straight afterwards. The intention was not to undermine the team principal."
When it was suggested Horner was no longer in control of the team, Vettel said: "That is not right. He is the boss, he is in control of all the employees. I am not in any other position than I am. I am the driver."...

BBC News


Wow... The team abolishing team orders in support of him is one thing but for Vettel to then effectively denounce his employers authority publicly is shear arrogance on a level I've never seen before.
Apologises for ignoring team orders then admits he'd do it again? Seb you are getting way, way too big for your boots buddy! If I was your boss you'd quickly be very aware of that fact if you tried to pull a stunt like that again.

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Will be very interesting to see how their season pans out now with no team orders. It's clearly Marks last season with Red Bull so he hasn't much to lose but unless his efforts and/or cars performance/tactics are undermined by the team it's likely that we are going to see some fireworks between the pair of them. Red Bull implosion?

I think the understated idea of this new policy is that they will just make sure team orders will not be needed in the future :laugh: