Team Orders

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Out of Vettels three Championships two wnt down to less than 10 points. Did they really think that he's going to give away 7 free points in the second bloody race of a season to a driver who was everything but helpful in last year's finale? What the heck were RB thinking??

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And if Webber had rolled out the red carpet in Brazil, do you think Vettel would somehow have decided not to cheat him yesterday? :laugh: :\

Webber stated publicly before Brazil that he would not give way to Vettel. Whilst he eventually did concede, at least he is a man who can keep his word.

Vettel, on the other hand, agreed not to pass after the final set of pit stops.

First he demanded Mark be moved out of the way.

Then after the final pit-stops he moved ahead anyway...

Then he claimed he didn't know about team orders...

Then he admitted he did and passed anyway...

Then said he was sorry... presumably only because he got caught out by the media.

And yes, it is Red Bull's fault that they have procured a driver who now knows he is above the team.

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Out of Vettels three Championships two wnt down to less than 10 points. Did they really think that he's going to give away 7 free points in the second bloody race of a season to a driver who was everything but helpful in last year's finale? What the heck were RB thinking??

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I didn't agree with the criticism Mark got in Brazil last year because its very difficult to give your team mate a place when bunched up at the first corner with every other driver trying to get past. Webber was tough on Vettel like he was to every other driver in that situation and felt the criticism he got from a minority of fans was just petty. Its not new news that these guys don't particularly like each other, but they have both helped each other out on track in the past and respect that both can be unbeatable on their day.

I personally don't like team orders, but since they can't be properly policed they may as well be legal as they are now. In the case of Sunday I think both teams were actually just trying to preserve the cars and/or fuel, and in that instance I don't really have issue with it. But I would still much rather that the cars had both fuel and tires to actually race.

The US coverage showed both Horner and Brawn with their heads in their hands when the on track whining and action was taking place between team cars. It was priceless!

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I personally don't like team orders, but since they can't be properly policed they may as well be legal as they are now. !

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I think that team orders will continue in F1, as you say. They have been around since the days of Fangio, have bobbed up many times since, and I fully agree there is no sensible way to control it. When you have two really good drivers in a team, both capable of winning races, how can one driver agree to give away a win if it might cost him the championship at the end of the year? And we have Hamilton at Mercedes, Kimi at Lotus, Alonso at Ferrari who are all capable of winning races and scoring maximum points, it is really tempting for any driver to grab maximum points in any race, whatever it takes.

Does anyone think Red Bull will chastise Vettel for blatantly ignoring team orders? I'm not sure they will but I think they really need to, no driver is bigger than the team.. or at least shouldn't be.
Banning him for a race, as has been suggested, is not in the teams best interests. Telling Seb to let Mark past near the end of the next race to even things up again would probably be the best solution.... but if he chose to also ignore that they would have no other choice other than to sack him.

Tricky situation for RB?

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I hate team orders but it's a necessary part of the sport so long as there are two championships. If Vettel/Webber or Hamilton/Rosberg had crashed fighting each other today, they'd have lost invaluable points.

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I think there should only be a drivers championship but that would not improve the team order bit but make it worse with 2nd drivers playing only a rear gunner role and being a lot less considerate during overtaking.

Nobody apart from the teams and clear #1 drivers like team orders. However, when it's impossible to seperate team orders from a team sport, you really must question why people get angry about it. Just a waste of time.

If there were no team orders F1 would certainly be more boring.

The inter-team rivalry is one aspect which makes the sport truly fascinating. Prost v Senna is one of the all time great rivalries in the world of sports.

The win at all cost mentality is in some cases like an anthropological/psychological study - the length and depths drivers will sink low to get what they want. Alonso being a perfect example but also I remember someone (Peter Windsor?) recounted when Frank Williams was lying in hospital worse for wear after his car crippling car crash Nelson Piquet tried to convince Frank that he made him number one driver!

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Originally Posted by wedge

but also I remember someone (Peter Windsor?) recounted when Frank Williams was lying in hospital worse for wear after his car crippling car crash Nelson Piquet tried to convince Frank that he made him number one driver!

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Not as cheeky as Ron Dennis who in the aftermath of the accident arranged a meeting with Honda execs and asked them "ever seen a cripple win a world championship? Neither have I." It wasn't a coincidence Honda switched soon after.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Nobody apart from the teams and clear #1 drivers like team orders. However, when it's impossible to seperate team orders from a team sport, you really must question why people get angry about it. Just a waste of time.

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In addition we ought to remember that team orders are legal because its impossible to ban them. Even yesterday RBR didn't initially refer to team orders but to an anonymous code, Multi-21 which sounds like an engine mapping setting. Had Vettel stuck to the plan we could have guessed there were team orders in play but we wouldn't have known for certain.

Likewise when team orders were banned there were all sorts of shenanigans with odd pitstops to favour one teammate over the other or the infamous "Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?" rubbish.

If you want to be insanely purist then split strategies should also be banned when they are opposed by the drivers who may feel that they have been given the one thats less likely to succeed.

Its not pleasant to watch but team orders have always been part of F1, its just that sometimes its better hidden than at others. There really isn't that much point getting stressed over the issue.

I agree with most above.

I was thinking today at work and thought about this.

I wonder if teams are more strict on team orders now, because F1 has become more on edge now through cost cutting.

I mean now. As soon as a team has a position in the bag, they turn it all down quicker these days as Engines, Gear Boxes and Tyres are so delicate they dont want 1 second more stress than needed.

Maybe F1 with less restrictions is the answer.