The potential of manufacturers at this point?

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Originally Posted by MikeD

I don't think 16 rallies would be too many. I think the problem lies with the many rallies that has no relevance to the Manufacturers. Many of the potential manufacturers are putting preassure on FIA to change the calendars for F1, WTCC, WEC and WRC to make it suit their sales markets.
I personally think that WRC has the worst calendar in terms of interest for manufacturers. They have no or very little interst in promoting their brands in Greece, Portugal, Finland, Australia, New Zealand and Jordan. Either these countries are too small in population and/or hit by ressescion, but the problem is that the WRC is too focused on it's historic events because the fans are in those countries. Unfortunately is the same countries where sponsors are harder and harder to find and with a decline in car sales.

I think WRC has too add Brazil, Russia, China and USA to its calendar to make it interesting to the manufacturers, otherwise we wont see any new manufacturers in the sport.

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I am mostly agree with you but I would delete Australia from your list for sure. It is among top 17 countries in the world if you take GDP. It is also one of the fastest growing economies and countries. Current population is already around 22 millions.
f you take current rallies and GDP then you can see the following list. Position in World GDP ranking list is in the bracets:
Germany (5)
GB (7)
France (9)
Italy (10)
Mexico (11)
Spain (13)
Australia (17)
Argentina (23)
Sweden (32)
Greece (38)
Norway (46) Because they are together with Sweden in WRC
Portugal (49)
Finland (55)
New-Zealand (62)

If you summarize Swedish and Norwegian GDP, then you get position 23, just before Argentina.

If you take those which have been left out in recent years you get:

Japan (3)
Turkey (16)
Poland (20)
Ireland (56)
Bulgaria (71)
Kenya (82)
Jordan (102)
Cyprus (117)
One thing is to add country to the rallies list. The other thing is to market it on that country. How many spectators did you see in Japan and Turkey? Or how many did you see in NORF and Poland?

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Originally Posted by bluuford

I am mostly agree with you but I would delete Australia from your list for sure. It is among top 17 countries in the world if you take GDP. It is also one of the fastest growing economies and countries. Current population is already around 22 millions.

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First of all, thanks for the long and well documented answer :)

If we take Australia first, then 22 millions is not that many when you have a growing economy of 200 million in Brazil, 100 million in Russia and 1.6 billion in China. Second of all, Australia has these renamed brands like Holden etc. and I don't think Citroën sell any cars in that country. I don't know about Ford or MINI but maybe some can share some info on that. That combined with it being a really expensive rally in terms of transport should be reason for some consideration if that should be on the calendar.

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Originally Posted by bluuford

f you take current rallies and GDP then you can see the following list. Position in World GDP ranking list is in the bracets:
Germany (5)
GB (7)
France (9)
Italy (10)
Mexico (11)
Spain (13)
Australia (17)
Argentina (23)
Sweden (32)
Greece (38)
Norway (46) Because they are together with Sweden in WRC
Portugal (49)
Finland (55)
New-Zealand (62)

If you summarize Swedish and Norwegian GDP, then you get position 23, just before Argentina.

If you take those which have been left out in recent years you get:

Japan (3)
Turkey (16)
Poland (20)
Ireland (56)
Bulgaria (71)
Kenya (82)
Jordan (102)
Cyprus (117)
One thing is to add country to the rallies list. The other thing is to market it on that country. How many spectators did you see in Japan and Turkey? Or how many did you see in NORF and Poland?

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Great info. - thanks. That being said then the manufacturers aren't asking for countries with high GDP, they are asking to get exposure in Emerging Markets and in my opinion that has to come at the expense of the traditional Western-world where especially Europe is facing the longest and hardest economic crisis since WW2.

Regarding Japan, then CNBC showed a graph over the amount of diapers sold to newborn children and to old people. In 2011 it was the first time that more diapers were sold to old people than to babies.

I don't know if anybody has noticed, but China's population (even with a 'one-child per family policy') has grown with 400 billion people over the last 10 years ... that's actually more than the entire population of Europe.

All in all, what I don't get is that the manufacturers get it more or less their way in F1 and WTCC whereas they have no influence in the WRC. Unless that changes then no new manufacturers will come along.

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Originally Posted by MikeD

All in all, what I don't get is that the manufacturers get it more or less their way in F1 and WTCC whereas they have no influence in the WRC. Unless that changes then no new manufacturers will come along.

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Off course the manufacturers have their points listened in rally too, but I guess everyone understand that it is much more complicated to arrange a rally than a closed circut race, also its common knowledge that they are looking for a good partner to arrange a WRC event in China, India and Africa.

This is my first post, so apologies if I say anything dumb.

Brazil would be #6 in that list and is the largest market worldwide for VW (a full manufacturer next year - I hope so!). I hear from the contacts I have in rally that Manufacturers are looking for WRC in Brazil to grow sales and exposure.

The problem we have here in Brazil is that there is no culture of rallying - just a few passionate drivers run a very poor championship (last years' round had only 6 cars in the entry list). There is no support, neither interest from the local manufacturers on Rally.

IRC had two events in Curitiba, but only 5 cars made all their way from Europe to race here (Meeke won both events, btw).

Anyways, as a rally lover, I'd love to see the WRC cars in the brazilian roads, but if it depends on the local organization, it'll have to wait a while more...

Is it the be all and end all to have an event in an emerging market? For sure it’s helpful, but I think, and maybe someone can correct me, that one of the biggest attractions to the Japanese manufacturers in their early days was the challenge of the Safari rally. Half a world away from Asia. So is it more important how WRC events are promoted in the emerging markets (and established ones too) via other media? I’m not jumping on the bring back Safari bandwagon, but that was one example of a very unique event that could be successfully marketed no matter what part of the world you live in, not just to Kenyans. But maybe times change…

what I mean is, maybe you could sell more cars to the Chinese by having a rally accross Antarctica, rather than having a rally in China. I know which one would get the bigger exposure, and it has an indigenous human population of zero.

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Originally Posted by Jajá

The problem we have here in Brazil is that there is no culture of rallying - just a few passionate drivers run a very poor championship (last years' round had only 6 cars in the entry list). There is no support, neither interest from the local manufacturers on Rally.

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Which is exactly why there shouldn't be a WRC round there.

We mustn't lose sight of the fact that, whilst it may be desirable to have manufacturer and corporate involvement, the WRC is first & foremost a sporting competition founded and grown on the backs of those countries and events where the sport is strong.

A lot is written here about the 'relevance' of WRC rounds running in certain countries suggesting that manufacturers interests would be better served by running in more populated regions with higher GDP.
The argument is flawed.

Regardless of the size of the market, a message in the wrong media will fail to hit the target. Would you advertise a tennis racquet in a golfing magazine?

Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

A far better way to attract the attention of these populations is to have one of their nationals perform well/win at a historic and iconic event.

As an example, you could replicate the Tour de France out of Shanghai. Same format, same distance, same top cyclists. The locals wouldn't bat an eyelid and the event would come and go without a ripple. However if a Chinese national were to win the actual Tour de France it'd be major media and the whole country would know about it.

On a similar vein here in New Zealand, Hayden Paddon's PWRC success has generated more media and hooplah than the last 3 or 4 WRC rounds staged here combined.

In Japan, Kino5hita and Fujimoto were household names, aligned with brands, long before that country ever staged a WRC round.

Manufacturers would be far better served by dropping their blind belief in Scandanavian/European drivers and taking a whole world approach to recruitment and development. The FIA could assist by a return the rules that allowed manufacturers to score points with nominated locals, or specialists where advantageous.

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Originally Posted by anstis

what I mean is, maybe you could sell more cars to the Chinese by having a rally accross Antarctica, rather than having a rally in China. I know which one would get the bigger exposure, and it has an indigenous human population of zero.

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Absolutely correct.

You make some good and relevant points Sollitt;
The sort needs to grow, however, it needs to go to markets were there is a demand for it. The Far East, India, Brazil, etc all huge car markets, BUT is there much interest in Rallying? Not much point in going if all we get a few hundred spectators and a few sheep, e;g Jordan.
Conversely, Greece; The Acropolis is one of the classics - yet how important is Greece to the WRC Manufacturers? Same with Australia/NZ - both have great events, but are 'small fry' for the Manufacturers.

The sport has to be careful which path it takes - F1 can probably get away with going to places with 2 men & a dog, the WRC mustn't do the same.
Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

I think that Mini does take the NZ market seriously.

Consider this: Hubcap Cafe Auckland - Restaurant Information , 130 Ponsonby Road

Almost my favorite place to eat. Not many places your can look at Countryman ALL4's and Coops S' and have a pie. Brilliant marketing.

Have they done this elsewhere in the world??

Its not the size of the market in NZ; possibly the markets relative wealth is what attracts car companies.