I wonder if Robin is still celebrating????

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

1. Richmond had more fans then Brazil, St. Pete or Edmonton. But its all about "perception" in the Indy Car world, isn't it? Plus you can flat out lie about attendance at street parties and nobody actually knows. The FACT is, that a place like St. Pete only has about 25,000 folks showing up for the race, but that is considered "good" because 40,000 (at a 100,000 seat facility) is "bad". OK. :rolleyes:

2. The key word being "appears". Too bad there are so few sponsors putting money into anything Indy Car related. Maybe its because of a sorry ass racing product, helped by numerous lame ass "races" like St. Pete, Long Beach, and now Baltimore.

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Scotty, I watched Sao Paolo. Those stands in the front stretch were filled, and no one left when the downpour hit either. You can quibble about how people count, I wont deny that some numbers are inflated, but I have been to about 20 races in Toronto, and they didn't have to lie about the number of people there. You couldn't move for the people, and I know what the price of seats and tickets were. IF they were not making money off all those races, than they were idiots.

Appears is a key word. If I am watching an IRL race and I see the acres of empty benches at some ovals, Am I going to buy some guy telling me how many people watch the races live? Richmond drew what? 40000? Not bad, maybe the race should stay, but if THAT is the case, why is the people in Richmond not mad as hell? Why haven't I read of all the upset race fans who loved this race? Where is the outrage? Were those tickets part of a package you got to get some good seats for NASCAR? Chicagoland and Kansas pretty much forced the IRL tickets on NASCAR fans at gunpoint. If you wanted the NASCAR tickets, you had to buy the IRL ones as well. They have now stopped doing that, and you will see where the real support is for the IRL at those venues.

The fact is, the ovals have not been roaring successes once you leave Texas and Indy. Even at the 500, I saw a lot of empty grandstand on the pitside. I remember seeing 500's for years on TV and never seeing those stands empty. NEVER. Ovals have to be economically viable, or the series is screwed. I don't want to see them gone bud, but you have to get this attitude out of your head that the road/street races are killing this series. They may be the only way you have a 17 race schedule. If we went only to ovals that could draw a crowd that allows the promotors to turn a profit, we might have a 4 race series.

The fact is some road/street courses can be dull, and some ovals can be dull. The car and the way the series is technically constructed chassis and engine wise is the problem. You create a better racing product on track, and people will come back to watch.

You would take 40000 people sitting in the stands at Richmond watching no one pass each other over 100000 tickets sold for the weekend at Baltimore? If you say yes, then you clearly are not in business are you? This sport needs people at the track, people watching on TV and people caring. Don't care where they are from or where they like to watch, we just need em there.

Believe me, Robin is less then thrilled with the sport right now.

If you want to know what steams Robin the most, I'll give you these topics:

1. Embarrassingly low numbers of American drivers (easily #1 on his list)
2. Brian Barnhart
3. Television (the ratings, the deal with Versus and the broadcasts on ABC)



Robin is feeling better about a few things (Bernard being #1 on that list), but he knows this thing has a VERY long way to go to even get its head above water.

And the TV ratings for the Indy 500 were a real kick in the gut for many at IMS and in the series. That really put a damper on a lot of the perceived "momentum" some people thought they had. They needed to at least hold their ground (because sponsors are having to be sold for 2011 right now and Indy is the only race that matters to them) and instead, they took another step down the hill. And the big drop in ratings in Indianapolis itself was very hurtful.

Its likely going to be another very tough and very ugly summer for the sport.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Believe me, Robin is less then thrilled with the sport right now.

If you want to know what steams Robin the most, I'll give you these topics:

1. Embarrassingly low numbers of American drivers (easily #1 on his list)
2. Brian Barnhart
3. Television (the ratings, the deal with Versus and the broadcasts on ABC)



Robin is feeling better about a few things (Bernard being #1 on that list), but he knows this thing has a VERY long way to go to even get its head above water.

And the TV ratings for the Indy 500 were a real kick in the gut for many at IMS and in the series. That really put a damper on a lot of the perceived "momentum" some people thought they had. They needed to at least hold their ground (because sponsors are having to be sold for 2011 right now and Indy is the only race that matters to them) and instead, they took another step down the hill. And the big drop in ratings in Indianapolis itself was very hurtful.
Its likely going to be another very tough and very ugly summer for the sport.

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I also have listened to Robin over the years and I don't disagree with a lot of what he thinks, but I suspect he knows that the TV doesn't come up if the on track racing doesn't improve. THAT is priorty one for me. If they do that, then it becomes more exciting and more in doubt for the audience at home, and is easier to build drama. When you do that, you create hero's and interest. THAT keeps fans, and keeps your audience share. Dull races with very little drama (the great unwashed didn't understand the fuel mileage drama at the end, they never do) make for hard tv.

At some point, this product better change in a hurry, or it wont matter if you had 33 Americans in the field. People want drama, and they want excitement.

AS for it being a tough year, it was going to be anyhow. This challenge is going to make or break Randy Bernard, but as you pointed out, Robin thinks this guy is doing things the right way, and I think most of us when pressed cant fault him for his efforts really so far either...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

I also have listened to Robin over the years and I don't disagree with a lot of what he thinks, but I suspect he knows that the TV doesn't come up if the on track racing doesn't improve. THAT is priority one for me. If they do that, then it becomes more exciting and more in doubt for the audience at home, and is easier to build drama. When you do that, you create hero's and interest. THAT keeps fans, and keeps your audience share. Dull races with very little drama (the great unwashed didn't understand the fuel mileage drama at the end, they never do) make for hard tv.

At some point, this product better change in a hurry, or it wont matter if you had 33 Americans in the field. People want drama, and they want excitement.

AS for it being a tough year, it was going to be anyhow. This challenge is going to make or break Randy Bernard, but as you pointed out, Robin thinks this guy is doing things the right way, and I think most of us when pressed cant fault him for his efforts really so far either...

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We have to keep things in perspective:
The ratings for the 500 were down this year. The rating for the Coca Cola 600 were down more and they didn't beat the ratings for the Indianapolis 500 for the first time in several years. That is a win.

Chip Ganassi made a great point in the interview room after his driver won the 500: "I don't understand why you guys don't do a better job of explaining that to the fans. Everybody is like, We don't like fuel races. There is no way to stop fuel races no matter what you do. There is always going to be that case where there is a yellow right before exact amount of laps that you need to get fuel to finish. Everybody keeps trying to put a switch in, rake a switch out, have push to pass, all this stuff. It doesn't mean anything. There is always going to be a fuel race, but there always that incident where there can be guys saving fuel to get to the finish. It's just that simple." You take your chance given the circumstances in which you find yourself. We like to win on speed, but when you don't have the speed you have to find another solution and fuel mileage is the next best way. Today, we had speed and mileage and I'm sure some will complain."

I think Randy Bernard has been a breath of fresh air for IndyCar but he needs to remember you can't get to 50/50 by adding road courses. As long as the Baltimore track is on par with Sao Paulo, great. But a street circuit which does not have a decent straight or two leading to a passing zone is just putting on a demonstration, not a race.

They've announced the new engine formula and that makes me believe the chassis will be postponed until at least until 2013. That is going to get some folks upset, but the owners were very happy to hear the engine info.

My reference to Robin being happy is because he has become Randy's biggest cheerleader and unless IndyCar decides to add two more of Bruton's tracks when they drop the two ISC tracks as Robin eluded, the balance would be very lopsided at 10 and 6.

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Originally Posted by Wilf

We have to keep things in perspective:
The ratings for the 500 were down this year. The rating for the Coca Cola 600 were down more and they didn't beat the ratings for the Indianapolis 500 for the first time in several years. That is a win.

Chip Ganassi made a great point in the interview room after his driver won the 500: "I don't understand why you guys don't do a better job of explaining that to the fans. Everybody is like, We don't like fuel races. There is no way to stop fuel races no matter what you do. There is always going to be that case where there is a yellow right before exact amount of laps that you need to get fuel to finish. Everybody keeps trying to put a switch in, rake a switch out, have push to pass, all this stuff. It doesn't mean anything. There is always going to be a fuel race, but there always that incident where there can be guys saving fuel to get to the finish. It's just that simple." You take your chance given the circumstances in which you find yourself. We like to win on speed, but when you don't have the speed you have to find another solution and fuel mileage is the next best way. Today, we had speed and mileage and I'm sure some will complain."

I think Randy Bernard has been a breath of fresh air for IndyCar but he needs to remember you can't get to 50/50 by adding road courses. As long as the Baltimore track is on par with Sao Paulo, great. But a street circuit which does not have a decent straight or two leading to a passing zone is just putting on a demonstration, not a race.

They've announced the new engine formula and that makes me believe the chassis will be postponed until at least until 2013. That is going to get some folks upset, but the owners were very happy to hear the engine info.

My reference to Robin being happy is because he has become Randy's biggest cheerleader and unless IndyCar decides to add two more of Bruton's tracks when they drop the two ISC tracks as Robin eluded, the balance would be very lopsided at 10 and 6.

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Well Wilf I loved what Chip had to say too. I like the news about the engines....and I like the idea of opening up the chassis and I think an intermediate step could be taken in the short term by allowing some minor mods to be made to the cars.

AS for the dropping of the ISC tracks, they may be dropping the IRL and NOT the other way around. AS for going to Bruton's tracks, you go to places you are wanted. It really is that simple on that score.

AS for losing ovals...well........as I explained before, at some point the fans of oval track OW racing HAVE to show up. It doesn't do any good to run Richmond and have acres of empty stands on your broadcast. What message does THAT send the sponsors or would be sponsors? NASCAR is fighting to hang tough during this recession but they are doing it from a position of strength. The IRL cannot afford to have an oval with 150000 seats and 40000 people scattered around. They cannot afford to have 25000 show up at Chicagoland or Kansas either.

You want to court big time sponsors and big time attention, the series has to try to look it. IT isn't happening right now, and some say they are dead man walking, but I like to think Robin, like me likes what Randy Bernard is doing and what people are saying inside the sport about the incremental changes.

AS for Baltimore, well, I hope someone designs a decent track, because if you can have 65000 to 80000 watching the race on race day, in the middle of a great city, THAT isn't a bad thing to see on TV...but that track and racing has to match the enthusiasm..

That is why I think CCWS slowly drowned....they were creating exhibitions and not races...

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Originally Posted by Wilf

The rating for the Coca Cola 600 were down more and they didn't beat the ratings for the Indianapolis 500 for the first time in several years.

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It did?

Could have fooled me. But then again I believe a 4.0 beats a 3.6.....silly me.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

It did?

Could have fooled me. But then again I believe a 4.0 beats a 3.6.....silly me.

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Maybe he was reading the over nights? I ignored that....we all know the ratings sucked but that is fine. I would expect NASCAR's audience to be more likely to watch at night than sit indoors on a Sunday afternoon.

You want my opinion? Put the 500 under lights.....

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

You want my opinion? Put the 500 under lights.....

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Duck!!!!

Those "Indy is the greatest thing since the Orgasm" people can get pretty nasty.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Duck!!!!

Those "Indy is the greatest thing since the Orgasm" people can get pretty nasty.

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Put the 500 under lights on the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend....THAT is the kind of radical change I would go for.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Put the 500 under lights on the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend....THAT is the kind of radical change I would go for.

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Not a bad idea....i would go even farther with a radical change.