Whats the excuse this time Nascar

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Originally Posted by mileman

What a pathetic excuse for a "race." Single file "cruise control" - almost the big one - the big one - and then the points leader "passing" guys left and right because they're running out of gas. This was one of the worst NASCAR shows in a long time. (Did I see a group of empty seats in the grandstand?)

I wonder what Mark Martin really had to say. It almost seemed like he was biting his tongue in the post-race interview. I'm at least glad that Newman told it like it is.

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"Show." Interesting choice of word.

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Originally Posted by The instant classic

i was thinking the same thing when Tony and Johnson went hiding to the back and said "30 to go i will race" i was thinking then, you know if they took the plates off guys could never pull this **** i know nascar says the speed is to high, but if the IRL cars race 220 on almost every track, whats the best the nascar speeds could be? maybe 212? i know nascar still goes on about bobby allison wreck but if the COT car is as great and safe as nascar loves to say, we should have no problem

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Force equals mass times acceleration. A stock car that weighs 3,600 pounds decelerating at a rate of 75 mph per second exerts a force greater than an Indycar weiging 1,400 pounds at the same rate of deceleration.

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Originally Posted by The instant classic

after i posted take the plates off and race like the IRL, i took some time to more think of my next reply to who ever, reply to my comment, and more i was thinking about it..it wasn't my best idea on plate racing but meh i didn't feel like editing my post last night to fix it :D

for tear down the banks? i think nascar is in a big hole right now, they added banking at Bristol fans and drivers hate it and Bristol racing sucks now.
so nascar tears down the banking at dega and the racing sucks. but leave it and we have "the big one" i really hate to be nascar right now and come up with new rules for plate racing. :confused:

my only idea cuz i'm out of ideas by this point. maybe rase the yellow line up and make it like a street curb that would stop guys going under it.
or under the yellow line lay down gravel (like the glen has) maybe that could stop guys from getting air born?

sorry if the ideas suck guys but like i said, when it comes to plate racing i'm out of ideas at this point

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They didn't add banking to Bristol, they removed some banking from Bristol (and the drivers love it). Drivers can pass without contact now. The race doesn't stop for a spin every 15 minutes. And Bristol is already the toughest track to drive on because it's the only track that puts a stressful amout of g-force on the drivers.

Restrictor plates are a 1970's solution to a 1980's problem. There's no way to eliminate the banking (I mean it's physically possible, but Big Bill would haunt us all). This is why I talk about those grooved tires so much. Elimiate mechanical grip without changing the track, and the drivers will be lifting in turns and running away from the pack. This is (at least) a 90's solution. A 21st century solution would be to make the catchfence out of diamond, but that's a tad expensive.

Recommended reading: http://fasttrackrc.blogspot.com/

i was at the race, and the last big crash where Mark Martin flipped, happened right in front of the area where i was sitting,

it was a awesome race! :D

I like the close pack racing. I thought the single file was boring, and you all will too if you knock the banks down.

It's dangerous and needs careful thinking, planning, and fast decision making. Excellent.

Everything a motor sport needs. Plus you really don't know who is going to win.

Taking the plates off sounds a non starter - will still in packs as they will still all be the same, plus more speed.

I don't want to see drivers or fans hurt - no one does - but close hard racing with a hint of danger is what keeps bringing people back. Having said that, shame so many seats were empty.

Perhaps the track is just too long - shorten the straights. Of course, that'll be cheap.

[quote=The instant classic]. . . . take the plates off and race like the IRL,

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The IRL is a joke.

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Originally Posted by "The instant classic":o23asnex

. they added banking at Bristol fans and drivers hate it and Bristol racing sucks now.

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[/quote:o23asnex]

The only fans who hate the racing at Bristol now are the "wreck fans". I hope they go away and never come back. Racing is not about wrecking.

i had a great view of Mark Martin flipping from where i was sitting in the stands :D

Another problem i see is the bumpers. They never used to be able to bump draft as aggressively as they can now because the bumpers didnt line up. If you were too aggressive bump drafting you would lift the rear of the car you were pushing, now you can just slam into the guy infront. Its not even really drafting anymore its just one car pushing another.

There used to be a skill on these tracks, Drafting was a skill and you couldnt just hook up with another car like they do these days and just push your way to the front in 3 laps. Patience in the draft was needed and guys wanted to be at the front.

Daytona doesnt seem to have as many problems as Dega. Like people have said at Daytona the car has to handly. Grooved tyres seem to me a logical option, that away some of that grip at Dega make them lift in the corners. But the best option would be just to take some banking out of the corners, and i just dont see them going that route.

Does anyone actually think NASCAR will do anything to solve the superspeedway issues?. NASCAR will probably just ignore whats happened, blame the drivers and carry on as everything is great.

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Originally Posted by Wade91

i had a great view of Mark Martin flipping from where i was sitting in the stands :D

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Yeah, that would've been really awesome if Mark had been taken away on a stretcher. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by colinspooky

Taking the plates off sounds a non starter - will still in packs as they will still all be the same, plus more speed.

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No, that would break up the packs. They're in packs because the cars' drag to horsepower ratio favors drag to the point where a lone car is never faster than a car that's drafting.

For example: Car A is drafting behind car B, car A pulls out but doesn't mantain forward momentum long enough to pass (and clear) car B unless he is followed by Car C. In this situation, as soon as A pulls out, his aerodynamic drag prevents him from completing the pass because he only has 500 horsepower.

An unrestricted Car A with at least 600 (but really more like 850 these days) horsepower could pass Car B because he has enough power to maintain the speed he held while he was drafting.

Go watch some pre-1988 Talladega and Daytona videos on YouTube and you'll see that the cars did not stay in packs before restrictor plates. The field strung out as it would at any other race.

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Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left

Another problem i see is the bumpers. They never used to be able to bump draft as aggressively as they can now because the bumpers didnt line up. If you were too aggressive bump drafting you would lift the rear of the car you were pushing, now you can just slam into the guy infront. Its not even really drafting anymore its just one car pushing another.

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Actually the bumpers did line up on the old car (at plate tracks anyway). NASCAR didn't have a spec bumper location on that car. By the middle of this decade teams realized that a lower front bumper made for more downforce at intermediate tracks, and a higher front bumper made for less drag at plate tracks. Eventually, teams developed distinct "high nose" and "low nose" bodies (as you would normally see in open wheel racing).

Here's a "high nose" car at Daytona.

http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2009/n...ona/nns_42.jpg

And a "low nose" car at Memphis.

http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2009/n...42-memphis.jpg

And as years went by with the old car, NASCAR started to require soft bumpers to discourage bump drafing. These soft bumpers are still in use on the COT.

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

Go watch some pre-1988 Talladega and Daytona videos on YouTube and you'll see that the cars did not stay in packs before restrictor plates. The field strung out as it would at any other race.

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You are absolutely correct. I attended a number of races at Daytona and Talladega during the 1970's. There was no pack racing. Many times there were only 2 or 3 cars on the lead lap at the end of the race. The races in those days were MUCH better than now, of course, in my humble opinion. I don't even bother to watch plate races any more.

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

You are absolutely correct. I attended a number of races at Daytona and Talladega during the 1970's. There was no pack racing. Many times there were only 2 or 3 cars on the lead lap at the end of the race. The races in those days were MUCH better than now, of course, in my humble opinion. I don't even bother to watch plate races any more.

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but thats exactly why the races at Daytona and Talladega, are much better with restricter plates, the racing is so much closer and more exciting with restricter plates :D seeing only 2 or 3 cars running on the lead lap must have been pretty boring :s