Dear Lord, it's a spec chassis and not chassis specs for 2011!

There needs to be some form of diversity for the series to be interesting. I'm so old I can remember when they allowed turbos and NA engines and set a displacemment limit for each which roughly made them equal but still different enough to make it interesting. The NA cars got off the corners faster and the turbos had greater top end. Drivers would sometimes pass another car!
Likewise, a rev limit makes sure almost every engine makes it to the end of the race, regardless how much the driver abuses it.
Safety is very important so perhaps a standard tub would be necessary, but all of the other bolt on bits should be wide open.
I don't know about you but spec racer fords are fun for the drivers but a yawn to the spectators and fans.

[quote="PA Rick"]There needs to be some form of diversity for the series to be interesting. I'm so old I can remember when they allowed turbos and NA engines and set a displacemment limit for each which roughly made them equal but still different enough to make it interesting. The NA cars got off the corners faster and the turbos had greater top end. Drivers would sometimes pass another car!
Likewise, a rev limit makes sure almost every engine makes it to the end of the race, regardless how much the driver abuses it.
[/QUOTEAnd a rev limiter eliminates that situation as it prevents an engine from being tuned to the best of its natural power curve.
One cannot have his cake and eat it too.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

And a rev limiter eliminates that situation as it prevents an engine from being tuned to the best of its natural power curve.
One cannot have his cake and eat it too.

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How so? The designer needs to make intake runner length and diameter, header length and diameter, cam profile and similar choices to go with the rev range they are going to work with. That's going to be a bit different for a 2.4 L club racing engine vs. when F1 was running 20,000, but the only things you can say for sure is that the faster an engine runs, the more horsepower it can potentially make and the more it costs to keep it in one piece.

Personally, I think air restrictors have turned out to be a pretty good method for equalizing performance among different kinds of engines, but rev limits are the most powerful tool for keeping costs down.

I think the long off-season is the biggest threat to the future of AOWR ;)

We have way to much time to discuss engine and chassis rules and general philosophy of AOWR..... :p

not that I do not thoroughly enjoy these topics but they seem to be making more enemies than friends.....

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Originally Posted by Miatanut

How so? The designer needs to make intake runner length and diameter, header length and diameter, cam profile and similar choices to go with the rev range they are going to work with. That's going to be a bit different for a 2.4 L club racing engine vs. when F1 was running 20,000, but the only things you can say for sure is that the faster an engine runs, the more horsepower it can potentially make and the more it costs to keep it in one piece.

Personally, I think air restrictors have turned out to be a pretty good method for equalizing performance among different kinds of engines, but rev limits are the most powerful tool for keeping costs down.

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Chevy rules in IMSA GT1 because they spent ASTRONOMICAL amounts to cheat the restrictor rules and did. (Special exclusive cylinder heads.)
Everyone else QUIT, because they could not spend that amount.

Ditto Audi, with the old V-8.

Boy that will really help the series

GARRA has other limits and is not very popular, outside of Daytona becasue it is boring sameness.
Every one drones around at the same apprx. speed, IF you chose the engine that works best under the rules, and in open wheel racing that would/will soon lead back to a one make series not much better than any SCCA spec.series.
Plus, as they are using four-bangers, it will sound like Formula Fords, or maybe Super Vee.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Chevy rules in IMSA GT1 because the spent ASTRONOMICAL amounts to cheat the restrictor rules and did.
Everyone else QUIT, because they could not spend that amount.

Ditto Audi, with the old V-8.

Boy that will really help the series

GARRA has other limits and is not very popular, outside of Daytona becasue it is boring sameness.
Every one drones around as the same apprx. speed, IF you chose the engine that works best under the rules, and in open wheel racing that would/will soon lead back to a one make series not much better than any SCCA spec.series.
Plus, as they are using four-bangers, it will sound like Formula Fords, or maybe Super Vee.

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How do you "cheat the restrictor rules"? If you spend a lot of development on the engine, you will get more power, but that's not cheating. As I understand it, there is some kind of magic in keeping the air flow just barely under supersonic, which is what everybody tries to do. NASCAR restrictor plate racing is much the same, and teams can spend millions if they want to.

That's racing.

Restrictors seem to work very well in F3 and ALMS.

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Originally Posted by Miatanut

How do you "cheat the restrictor rules"? If you spend a lot of development on the engine, you will get more power, but that's not cheating. As I understand it, there is some kind of magic in keeping the air flow just barely under supersonic, which is what everybody tries to do. NASCAR restrictor plate racing is much the same, and teams can spend millions if they want to.

That's racing.

Restrictors seem to work very well in F3 and ALMS. LOL, yeah for Chevy and Audi

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Cheating the rules, is a term that does not mean someone is cheating, but has reached a lever superior to others, that cheats the sanctions "fairness" doctrine while still being totally legal.
(I.E. the asinine oft quoted "spirit" of the rules. Penske's p2 Porsche is the most GLARING example)

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Cheating the rules, is a term that does not mean someone is cheating, but has reached a lever superior to others, that cheats the sanctions "fairness" doctrine while still being totally legal.
(I.E. the asinine oft quoted "spirit" of the rules. Penske's p2 Porsche is the most GLARING example)

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Cheating the rules isn't cheating. Reaching a level superior to others IS cheating?
Are you a NASCAR fan?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Cheating the rules, is a term that does not mean someone is cheating, but has reached a lever superior to others, that cheats the sanctions "fairness" doctrine while still being totally legal.
(I.E. the asinine oft quoted "spirit" of the rules. Penske's p2 Porsche is the most GLARING example)

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It looks to me like the Acura P2 is now giving the Porsche a run for its money, so I don't know that it is such a great example. With Penske, we can look back to the pushrod Indy engine and 917/30 as better examples of what you are talking about, but to me, that's just racing. If you want to give total commitment to a series, throwing perhaps disproportionate resources at it, you can dominate.

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Originally Posted by Miatanut

It looks to me like the Acura P2 is now giving the Porsche a run for its money, so I don't know that it is such a great example. With Penske, we can look back to the pushrod Indy engine and 917/30 as better examples of what you are talking about, but to me, that's just racing. If you want to give total commitment to a series, throwing perhaps disproportionate resources at it, you can dominate.

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Penske beat the Audis last year, i.e. a class two car beating the class one cars.
P2 was SUPPOSED to be for the lowly privateers, NOT a semi-factory team.
Now that the IMSA has changed the rules that allowed Penske to win, he is quitting the class.
As I said, he CHEATED the SPIRIT of the rules.
If you read some of the sports car forums, there was a LOT of whining about how it was UNFAIR, he cheated, he did not follow the SPIRIT of the rules.

Same with GT1, the asinine ACO did not think, anyone would spend millions for special parts for the GT class, they ASSUMED their precious p1 would be the place they did that.
THEY were wrong, Chevy cheated the rules and no one game a damn about p1 outside of Audi, SO until Penske cheated the rules in his manner, all we had were p1 and GT1 parades.
Well that problem has been addressed so GT1 seems to be going bye-bye and parades will return to p1 and p2.