Independence

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Originally Posted by Drew

But what legally has to happen? This is what confuses me.

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Legally?

LOL

Here it is in a nutshell.....Kosovo declares independence. The rest of the world pays off Serbia not to get pissed off.

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Originally Posted by Drew

Becoming independant and then joining up to the EU, seems almost odd.

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I think that the idea of a country of less than a square mile is also "odd" but one of those exists within the city of Rome.

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Originally Posted by Drew

What's to stop Scotland, Catalunya et al doing the same thing?

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Catalunya is tehcnically known as an "autonomous community" which is kind of like Scotland in that some civil law does exist within its borders but things like taxation and the defence forces are part of a national entity.
Scotland itself is a "constituent country" which is a term that doesn't really have a definition.

What's to stop them? Not much really. It would take a few legal instruments such as repealing the Act of Unions in the case of Scotland, but if enough impetus was shown it could be done fairly smoothly.

Specifically with Scotland, there is a set of triggers for indpendance relating to the adoption of the Euro; mainly because it would cripple the Scottish banks and therefore the economic stability of the country.

[quote="anthonyvop"]Who cares? If the people of Kosovo decide to be an independent country it is a problem between Serbia and Kosovo.quote]

You obviously care, seeing as you bothered to read this thread and make your normal carefully thought out response to it. :confused:

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Who cares? If the people of Kosovo decide to be an independent country it is a problem between Serbia and Kosovo.

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You obviously care, seeing as you bothered to read this thread and make your normal carefully thought out response to it. :confused:

Actually for me it's hard to make a proper statement here as Kosovo's (or Kosova's as they write now) case creates an interesting situation here in Estonia too. From the plus side we have fought for independence and know, how much does it mean for some folks to become independent.

On the other hand most of the Kosovo's people are Albanians and many have asked that why won't they unite with Albania. Estonian government has said that they'll recognize Kosovo's independence, but if we look more closely, we can see a similar situation arising here too. A neighbour's Russian minority in our country (as neighbour's Albanian minority in Serbia), who mostly live in Eastern part in our country. On Sunday a Russian grouping here declared that by the example of Kosovo Eastern Estonia should be given independence too. Therefore IMO at least for us it's a bit dangerous to recognize Kosovo quickly and we shouldn't rush, but more likely wait.

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Originally Posted by jens

Actually for me it's hard to make a proper statement here as Kosovo's (or Kosova's as they write now) case creates an interesting situation here in Estonia too. From the plus side we have fought for independence and know, how much does it mean for some folks to become independent.

On the other hand most of the Kosovo's people are Albanians and many have asked that why won't they unite with Albania. Estonian government has said that they'll recognize Kosovo's independence, but if we look more closely, we can see a similar situation arising here too. A neighbour's Russian minority in our country (as neighbour's Albanian minority in Serbia), who mostly live in Eastern part in our country. On Sunday a Russian grouping here declared that by the example of Kosovo Eastern Estonia should be given independence too. Therefore IMO at least for us it's a bit dangerous to recognize Kosovo quickly and we shouldn't rush, but more likely wait.

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But while lots of examples of other possible breakaway factions have been cited in the last few days — the Scots, the Basques, the Corsicans, the one you mention — all are different because, discounting the ETA campaign of terror in Spain, none have been the subject of a recent war, and none seem as likely to declare independence as Kosovo has since the late 1990s. (By the way, am I the only person to have detected some revisionist history in recent days? During the war in 1999, there was a very large body of public opinion in Kosovo along the lines of hating NATO for its bombing, but hating Milosevic more. Now we are told that there are banners in praise of NATO on the streets of Kosovo. How times change...)

The intervention of Vladimir Putin in this one is troubling, too, for while he may have a point about the legal status of the independent Kosovo, his way of dealing with would-be breakaways has been clear for all to see in Chechnya and I don't think that's a model for the Serbs to follow.

It stands to reason that the Serbian government should be so tetchy about recoginising Kosovian independance. They stand to lose a fair slab of money through lost taxation revenues.

I find it curious that Serbia's minister of Kosovo, Slobodan Samardzic calls this a "breach of international law", and conveniently ignores the fact that with a 90% turnout for elections on referenda of independence in '91 & '92 Serbia declared them null and void; thus making a mockery of "democracy".

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Originally Posted by jens

On Sunday a Russian grouping here declared that by the example of Kosovo Eastern Estonia should be given independence too. Therefore IMO at least for us it's a bit dangerous to recognize Kosovo quickly and we shouldn't rush, but more likely wait.

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Well this is a broader question. Would the people of "Eastern Estonia" vote for it if a referendum was held? Which maakonnad are we actually talking about here? Could Idu-Viru or Polva logically support themselves? Somehow I doubt it.

Personally I think that the Republic of Kosovo in inherantly a good idea, since it's ethnically different to Serbia for the most part, and when they aren't even on amicable terms, then rule by another state will always be resented.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

It stands to reason that the Serbian government should be so tetchy about recoginising Kosovian independance. They stand to lose a fair slab of money through lost taxation revenues.

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That's an interesting thought, though I also wonder how much of a drain Kosovo was on Serbia's resources, given its poor economic state. Presumably, also, the revenue gained from taxation in Kosovo wouldn't have been that great per head of population as a result of the low incomes there, though for some reason I don't know enough about the Serbian taxation system to be sure!

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Personally I think that the Republic of Kosovo in inherantly a good idea, since it's ethnically different to Serbia for the most part, and when they aren't even on amicable terms, then rule by another state will always be resented.

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And, one would hope, the new Kosovar government will respect the rights of the Serb minority and not make the same mistakes in this regard that Serb governments of the past have made in Kosovo itself. This will be a key to the success of independence.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Well this is a broader question. Would the people of "Eastern Estonia" vote for it if a referendum was held? Which maakonnad are we actually talking about here? Could Idu-Viru or Polva logically support themselves? Somehow I doubt it.

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I should have been more precise in my post and talked about "Northeastern Estonia". Actually hard to give any percentage in case of a referendum. Although for example in Narva arguably about 90% are Russians, then it seems that at least some amount of Russians are satisfied with living in this state.

Also with the Kosovo issue the problems of recognizing states like Southern Ossetia and Abkhazia arise.