[WRC] News & rumours (part II)

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28th November 2012, 19:27
jbmarcus21

Legend François Delecour had tested Mini Wrc
François Delecour a testé la Mini Wrc
28th November 2012, 19:48
ToughMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkangas

In one of the recent issues of Vauhdin Maailma there was a number that Abu Dhabi will pay about half of the budget. The deal of course generates also some costs. Based on my personal assumptions without any inside info I'd say Citroen's budget could be somewhere near 50M a year.

With these figures being bandied about its a wonder M-Sport were competitive at all. If Hyundai and Toyota come back with full factory efforts in 2014 its hard to see M-Sport continuing in WRC after next year. Hard to know what Prodrive are going to do, engine is still being developed by BMW but it will be hard to be competitive against proper works teams.
28th November 2012, 20:01
Allyc85

Quote:

Originally Posted by skarderud

Redbull use near 1/2 billion onF1 :)

Nothing like that! In the last few years of unrestricted spending Toyota and Ferrari were spending 250 million euros tops.

Any who back to rallying, has anyone heard anything from the promotors as its under 50 days till the new season!
28th November 2012, 20:03
Francis44

Abu-Dhabi must be paying a fortune to Citroen. They will run Hirvonnen and Sordo full season (Sordo not confirmed yet for all season as far as I know), plus Loeb and Al Qassimi for small programs. If they sign Neuville than that's other 8 or 9 rally's. That must be some huge cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Citroen budget is well above 50 million.
28th November 2012, 20:05
stefanvv

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToughMac

Hard to know what Prodrive are going to do, engine is still being developed by BMW but it will be hard to be competitive against proper works teams.

Prodrive are taking over engine development from now on I think.
28th November 2012, 20:12
skarderud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allyc85

Nothing like that! In the last few years of unrestricted spending Toyota and Ferrari were spending 250 million euros tops.

Any who back to rallying, has anyone heard anything from the promotors as its under 50 days till the new season!

they have 2 teams, and sponsoring different venues and happenings, pluss "sponsoring" bernie. Not that far away :)
28th November 2012, 20:19
Padowa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Mads definitely was handicapped by having a car less developed than the Fiestas of JML and Petter. Remember Greece at PS mads were hundreds of a second behind JML. Equal cars he´d been ahead of JML and third. Having said that you can´t expect him to win over the big boys regarding the technical differences.

What are the technical differences between the Jari-Matti and Petter cars compared to Mads car?
28th November 2012, 20:25
Xsara Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousti

Xsara fan, did they offer something to Evgeny yet? And what want ALM itself for next season?

At the moment we are negotiating with different teams. We want Evgeny to take part in whole championship.
28th November 2012, 20:28
Wasted Talent

Quote:

Originally Posted by skarderud

Redbull use near 1/2 billion onF1 :)

I very much doubt that....

McLaren Group TOTAL turnover in 2011 was £239m, that includes McLaren Racing, McLaren Electronics and McLaren Applied Technologies

McLaren profits race ahead as F1 brings off-track success - Telegraph

WT
28th November 2012, 20:32
EightGear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasted Talent

McLaren Group TOTAL turnover in 2011 was £239m, that includes McLaren Racing, McLaren Electronics and McLaren Applied Technologies

WT

And turnover doesn't say anything about how much money they spent... :D
28th November 2012, 20:35
Xsara Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Does anyone think Østberg, Novikov, Tanak or Neuville will chrash less than Petter going at the same speed or is it okay for Wilson and the sponsors (Quatar) to "go slow" and collect 5th and 6th places after Citroen and VW??

Do you understand that private drivers must work harder to fight with factory drivers? Privateer cars are heavier (Novikov`s car was 15 kg heavier than factory cars this year) & downgraded so when Mads, Evgeny, Ott or Thierry wins the stage - it`s a VERY GOOD result. When factory driver push at 95-100%, privateer must push at 110-120%. Unfortunately due to this fact the risk of accidents increased.
28th November 2012, 20:43
Nornbugger

If we had this forum at the end of 91 would people have been crying that Prodrive had dropped Markku Alen to let McRae move up to WRC? They took a punt on a talent, paid off alright for them too but the short term thinking that would see Petter in a works seat next year is the same thinking as would have robbed some of our finest drivers from getting a break.(and I'm sure many will agreee that over seasons 92/93 Markku could have delivered as many points)
28th November 2012, 20:52
sollitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Does anyone think Østberg, Novikov, Tanak or Neuville will chrash less than Petter going at the same speed or is it okay for Wilson and the sponsors (Quatar) to "go slow" and collect 5th and 6th places after Citroen and VW??

You don't and won't know the answer to this until you test it. What we do know is that, as much as we all like Petter, he has developed a habit of failing to finish events, which is likely to continue. You will not know whether any other driver can do better until you give them that opportunity. What you do know is that they cannot do any worse than fail to finish events.
28th November 2012, 22:56
Gard

Quote:

Originally Posted by sollitt

You don't and won't know the answer to this until you test it. What we do know is that, as much as we all like Petter, he has developed a habit of failing to finish events, which is likely to continue. You will not know whether any other driver can do better until you give them that opportunity. What you do know is that they cannot do any worse than fail to finish events.

Sure they can. They can be slow and fail to finish
28th November 2012, 23:03
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padowa

What are the technical differences between the Jari-Matti and Petter cars compared to Mads car?

Up to Greece I know there was differences in suspension, gear ratios and some parts in engines that differed.

In Finland and onwards I think Mads got as much as possible the same as JML and Petter.
28th November 2012, 23:19
Xsara Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

In Finland and onwards I think Mads got as much as possible the same as JML and Petter.

It`s impossible. Privateer & factory cars always different. Privateer car always one (or more) step down.
28th November 2012, 23:19
Xsara Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

Sure they can. They can be slow and fail to finish

Like Petter this year? :)
28th November 2012, 23:34
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsara Fan

It`s impossible. Privateer & factory cars always different. Privateer car always one (or more) step down.

For sure. That´s true. But the difference in last rallies was much less for Mads and I would pressume Evgeni as well...?
29th November 2012, 01:07
Kielder

Sébastien Loeb ‏@Loeb_Seb1 Europa duerme, tenemos un rumor? :) )

:confused:

He wrote it a few minutes ago on Twitter. Translated: "Europe is sleeping, do we have a rumour?". I'm not sleeping, tell us boss, what's up? :bounce:
Maybe he is confirming that he'll run in Argentina.
29th November 2012, 01:28
Kielder

Latvala had an accident against a car which entered the test stage. It was a front impact. He and his co-driver are OK, but two people are injured.
29th November 2012, 03:36
Rallyper

Sources?
29th November 2012, 08:57
mousti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kielder

Latvala had an accident against a car which entered the test stage. It was a front impact. He and his co-driver are OK, but two people are injured.

He's off to a good start then, is he Jinxed or what?
29th November 2012, 09:06
MartijnS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kielder

Sébastien Loeb ‏@Loeb_Seb1 Europa duerme, tenemos un rumor? :) )

:confused:

He wrote it a few minutes ago on Twitter. Translated: "Europe is sleeping, do we have a rumour?". I'm not sleeping, tell us boss, what's up? :bounce:
Maybe he is confirming that he'll run in Argentina.

Fake account.
29th November 2012, 10:20
Kielder

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousti

He's off to a good start then, is he Jinxed or what?

He crashed this year testing in Portugal too. You can say it's normal to have an accident while you're testing, what is unusual is crashing twice against private cars. First one happened during Sweden's recce in Colin's Crest. I don't know if it's more worrying crashing against an old woman in an open road or against two Mexicans in a closed road the first time you drive the Polo. It's even more than double whammy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartijnS

Fake account.

It's obvious reading the profile. It was very late... :o
29th November 2012, 14:05
nafpaktos

mads

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskald

I can`t really understand why I`m bothering with this....But, mediocre driver??? Mads Østberg??? If I should rate your post, it would be s strong candidate for a "Joke of the Year"-award!
I will however not bother to discuss your arguments, it will just be useless...

First of all thanks for the award :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .During the years in wrc i have seen a lot of drivers at his age being MUCH MUCH FASTER.For drivers of his age at the past we were discussing about how many championsip they will take and not if they are able to win a rally,like we do now for mads.I dont thinκ it is necessary to mention them because since you are memeber of this forum i'm sure you know all of them.I would appreciate if you could give me one more award for this post.
29th November 2012, 14:12
tommeke_B

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafpaktos

First of all thanks for the award :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .During the years in wrc i have seen a lot of drivers at his age being MUCH MUCH FASTER.For drivers of his age at the past we were discussing about how many championsip they will take and not if they are able to win a rally,like we do now for mads.I dont thinκ it is necessary to mention them because since you are memeber of this forum i'm sure you know all of them.I would appreciate if you could give me one more award for this post.

It's not about who has been faster. It's about who is faster now. Name?
29th November 2012, 14:12
Rallyper

No, please, some examples before we go on this discussion...
29th November 2012, 14:22
nafpaktos

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

It's not about who has been faster. It's about who is faster now. Name?

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.
29th November 2012, 14:36
wrc1600

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafpaktos

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

How did you figure out that?
29th November 2012, 14:42
tommeke_B

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafpaktos

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

Some drivers improve... Mads Ostberg is becoming faster all the time (his improvement on asphalt was huge this year), but he is the most consistent of all young drivers in the WRC right now (Novikov, Tanak and Neuville are no examples of consistent drivers, at least not yet). Richard Burns has been world champion with winning almost no events (being not the fastest driver that time). Mikko Hirvonen has been almost champion twice (2009 and 2011) without being the fastest. And that's why I think Mads Ostberg is a potential future champion. :)
29th November 2012, 14:43
Mirek

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafpaktos

This moment except from the top drivers he is the best from the rest but this doesn't make him a potential top class-future champion driver.Jari for example was faster than mads when he was in smaller age than mads and before take an official seat.

Is Jari champion? No. Did Jari win a single WRC rally before he got to manufacturer seat? No. If You don't mid I would notify You that Mads did win. Also he had higher point/start ratio than both Ford works drivers. For God sake what more do You want?
29th November 2012, 15:09
BleAivano

Not sure this is the right thread for this but anyway.

PWRC driver Ramona Karlsson together with Swedish Car Sports Association (SBF) have launched a new project that
they call "Young Female Drivers”. The Purpose of the project is to give young female drivers with a platform, inspiration and
advice to aid them in their aim to succeed with their ambitions in motorsport.

PRESS: Ramona startar ungdomsprojekt för kvinnliga förare
29th November 2012, 15:21
T.Maanteiden kuningas

WHO is this Jari?!
29th November 2012, 15:35
Wasted Talent

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightGear

And turnover doesn't say anything about how much money they spent... :D

Read the article - turnover £239m, profit £20m, therefore spend = £219m

Simples

WT
29th November 2012, 16:24
rallyfiend

I would believe Citroen's budget to be about 25-30 million euros. Budgets are much cheaper than what they were in the past - such as the 50 million quoted to Subaru WRT. That was in the days of more expensive cars (much more technology, which is an endless money pit), and more events on the calendar.

Red Bull Racing F1's budget is around 150 million euros (125 pounds). This is open knowledge as they have to declare their details in the UK.

So to think that Citroen WRT is spending 100 million is garbage.
29th November 2012, 16:27
tommeke_B

Wasn't Loeb his salary around 20 million euros last year? I think it was discussed on this forum too... ;)
29th November 2012, 16:28
dimviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Wasn't Loeb his salary around 20 million euros last year? I think it was discussed on this forum too... ;)

10-12 from Citroen i think Tom.
29th November 2012, 16:31
AndyRAC

Quote:

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I would believe Citroen's budget to be about 25-30 million euros. Budgets are much cheaper than what they were in the past - such as the 50 million quoted to Subaru WRT. That was in the days of more expensive cars (much more technology, which is an endless money pit), and more events on the calendar.

Red Bull Racing F1's budget is around 150 million euros (125 pounds). This is open knowledge as they have to declare their details in the UK.

So to think that Citroen WRT is spending 100 million is garbage.

Budgets are cheaper - teams have realised they can save money by not paying drivers, but only employing those who bring money.
29th November 2012, 16:36
dimviii

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Budgets are cheaper - teams have realised they can save money by not paying drivers, but only employing those who bring money.

You talk about Malcolm only i guess.
29th November 2012, 17:13
RAS007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimviii

You talk about Malcolm only i guess.

I think "everyone except Citroen" would be more accurate.

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