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Fiesta WRC and Yaris WRC 2017 have now homologation valid till 2027/12
Fiesta R5 (Mk1) with homologation extended till 2026/12
Fiesta Rally2 (Mk2) with homologation extended till 2027/12 (afftects Rally2/3/4/5)
208 T16 with homologation extended till 2027/12
Polo GTI R5 with homologation extended till 2028/12
Skoda looks like staying with their Rally2 Car..
"We are looking into the new regulations,” boss Hrabánek said briefly to Motorsport aktuell.
“It’s part of the brand’s DNA. Our Fabia is fast and reliable on all surfaces and is the best-selling Rally2 model.”
“That’s why we’ll be entering the 2027 season with this model and will continue to develop it in detail,” Hrabánek said.
As official team thanks. And Mikkelsen being their 1st driver please
Skoda will not have official team. And will not build new car for highest category (at least in first year, later maybe as it will not be allowed to build new Rally2 car according to current results).
Also an admission that Toyota are working with the FIA on the details of the regs, thus, that's why they're not published yet. As was described here in pages gone by.
Please can somebody remind me what's the latest on Rally2 and Rally2+ upgrade? Struggling to find reliable up-to-date sources. I'm sure I read recently that Rally2+ upgrades are for WRC only.
Let me throw this idea out: WRC2027Rally1 and Rally2+ are both top class in the 2027 constructors/manufacturers championship. Rally2 cars from manufacturers without an entrant into that, and committed to the full season, do not qualify for the '+' upgrades.
Not saying it would happen, but also can't rule it out? It'd sure piss on a few 'privateers having a chance' chips.
Nothing like Rally2+ doesnt exist...
Maybe they will handicap somehow WRC27 car to have closer performance to Rally2 car, but don't know why I have a feeling that it would be the opposite.
Also Rally2+ sounds stupid just for WRC. There is only Lancia who would benefit.
I think they will fill the gap with combined categories untill FIA actually find promoter and "constructors" actually decide to come and start building cars. This could last a few years if we consider how quick the things are decided here in our beloved sport.
If you cap the performance of the WRC27 cars to a level close to the current Rally 2 cars, whats the incentive for Toyota to continue to invest so heavily in their 27 car, and indeed other manufacturors & constructors.
Let´s invent Rally2+ then... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Why is everyone so obsesed with Rally2+ when it was made clear for some time that it won't be a thing and WRC27 will be on same level as Rally2s and will replace them long term?
They can enter with a car that isn't based on 'supermini' size/shape car (see Yaris, Fiesta, i20, Fabia etc in Rally2, all based on road going cars of that size)Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Jambo
Also it wouldn't be capped forever. Just until there is a clear path from promoter and enough teams with WRC27 car.
There will be no new promoter. There will be only new investor, but promoter will stay same...Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Thanks, sorry everybody for dragging that back.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Nothing but their own intelligence prevented them from building a non supermini Rally2 before either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJones
WRC27 is designed to not only become the new top class, but to give the customer market that is currently in Rally2 a future. Manufacturers aren't building small cars any more which would be a viable base for Rally2,so that category, as successful as it is, is on borrowed time, kind of like Group N was somewhere around 2008/09 or so.
For someone like Toyota who looks to be involved long term it is necessary to build a WRC27 car even if it will be held back to Rally2 standards at first, because it is the only chance this ruleset has. If Toyota is there and a few private constructors + M Sport is there with WRC27 cars by 2028, the FIA can split the classes apart again until Rally2 as we know it now dies. And maybe the whole thing ends up working and attract other manufacturer(s).
If Toyota would be phoning it in with their Rally2 the ruleset is dead and in about three years, maybe five if we are lucky we would be back to square one and looking to replace Rally2 as it is dead by then purely because manufacturers can't/won't sell sensible cars any more at all by then (at least in european markets).
Question is if WRC27 regulations is a win. I dont have so positive feeling...
Of course. I'm not happy about a lot of things in the new regulations but, the sport is in lots of trouble in regards of possible base cars so....Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
So Rally2 cars couldn't be evolved and is strict that the class will die? WRC car never evolved from 1997 to 2016 (or WRC+ further until Rally1)? Right now it seems that everyone is waiting except Toyota and maybe Project Rally One (I'm still very doubtful that this will ever work). But if even after promotor s*it will be clear that there will not be interest, I think Toyota could: 1. Go with Rally2 as all others or 2. Completely left the sport
I'm not saying Rally2 will definitely die, but look at the road car market. How many around 4 meter long cars that aren't unreasonably fat crossovers with square meters of surplus sheet metal in the bodyshell are still on sale? How many will be left by 2030? And how many of those are from manufacturers that look in any way even only a tiny bit interested in rallying at the top?
Toyota is almost carrying rally and WRC with their commitment and investment in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
But although this is commendable it can also be a negative due to their superiority. Many drivers are already switching to their Yaris Rally2 car and the same wil likely happen with their WRC27 (Celica). Who is going to risk €345,O00 on an unproven Project Rally One car when there's a Toyota to buy ?
Are we sure that those smaller size cars won't return? I've heard people (not rally fans) complain about how the market is filled with those crossovers and SUVs, never heard anybody say the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
In the top 10 of best selling cars in Italy in 2025 we have Panda, Clio, 208 and Yaris. 4/10 is quite a lot, considering those smaller cars are the minority now. If we look at what's on the road, then more than 4/10 are smaller cars. And the best selling model for Skoda is the Fabia, ahead of all their crossovers and SUVs.
Every country is different, but surely in some other places it must be similar?
I think many people are kind of missing the point of WRC27. Yes it's a replacement for the Rally1 cars but's ALSO a replacement for the Rally2 cars.
The Lancia will probably be the last ever homologated Rally2 car, they are slowly going to be phased out over the coming years in favour of the WRC27 cars.
That is true and I'd certainly hope we get normal cars back, but the current safety regulations make small cars less and less profitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
You can charge a lot more for a crossover that in terms of development and production cost little to nothing more than a normal car.
And I also think it is dangerous to look at stuff like this from within the own automotive bubble and people influenced directly by this bubble. Normal non car people seemingly either want a "city Stupid Useless Vehicle" because a normal small car can't go on the motorway (obviously BS but I've heard stuff like this from technical "idiots") or wrongly precived additional safety (=> antisocial, anti pedestrian safety), or they just don't care and get what the market offers which even second hand is increasingly Stupid Useless Vehicles.
Sadly but human nature says that bigger is better and safer transport for your family. They once asked a very remote tribe which vehicle they'd choose for their family, a supermini or a big SUV... ofc they picked the SUV.
2027> is going to a very tricky transitional time for rally, both with the new cars slow to arrive and the 1000s of Rally2 cars out there, including the very recent and competitive Yaris & Skoda and new Lancia.
Curious, I didn't expect that. What I've heard around here from non-car enthusiasts has usually been "I want a smaller car because it's easier to park, cheaper and more fuel efficient" (which often translates into Panda or Clio). And I live in a town where parking is always available, when I go into cities I still see plenty of Citroen C1 size cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
I guess it's hard to make a European level ratio of liking for smaller cars vs SUVs. But if the people who prefer smaller cars are still a good number, it would be weird if no manufacturer plans to make some smaller car to get those customers and fill the void.
Do you know anything about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
By WRCWings Prospeed will use Skoda’s parts. WRC27 regulations are valid for ten years but what if Skoda isn’t there for ten years.
(https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02...eds-rally-one/
“The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2.”
Hello OldF.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Been a while, I think.
Welcome back.
The Ypsilon will probably be the last ever homologated production car. If there's a point people are missing about WRC27 it's that it's a replacement for production car manufacturers in special stage rallying. The touring rally sport is for historics, modern WRC is fully rally racing and it deserves rally racing cars. And even then, for all this talk of suitable, small, cars; it's all moot because you can't force these manufacturers to thenQuote:
Originally Posted by theracingelf
a) homologate a suitable, small, car and develop a rally car out of it
b) compete at world level
I've been keeping a close eye on engine talk. Early texts/interviews/pressers always said Rally2 production engines with liberation for possibilities of EV and hydrogen in the future. While it makes sense to use what's available now and kind of entices the Rally2 manufs, access to homologated production engines will throttle the number of newcomer constructors. It shits on the entire philosophy of the ruleset as I put in my previous post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
I've not seen 'production engine' used officially in the past year or so, so I'm fingers crossed they would allow the motorsport industry to produce to Rally2 spec straight away, with whatever changes to the spec in the future. If not now, they need to allow them as quickly as possible.
Also, something is lost in translation maybe with Lluis/WRCWings. "All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers". I don't think is true. Hansen only refers to the engine I think. Not sure where else it was written/said. The suspension is all change anyway but I think the remaining parts are all available off the OEM's shelves anyway. It makes zero sense to have to have anything other than engine from a production manuf from Rally2 homologation.... getting back to the question what if Skoda aren't there.
WRC27 & Rally2 performance will be very similar says Toyota's Tom Fowler:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-c...e-in-wrc-2027/
Skoda aren't going anywhere as they confirmed the other day ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
OK, but as no Rally2-club manufacturers are being enticed to build a WRC27 themselves, it's ridiculous to have the new ruleset written surrounding their existence into the future. If these regs are in the hope that the motorsport sector will do the promo work for the manufs which will lead them back to WRC, everyone is in for a miserable time. Let go, it's over, move on. She said no. Stop pandering to that disinterested club.
Well yes there are bound to be differences from one place to another.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
I do have a bit of a feeling that strategies like Ford of Europe has (had?) are gonna come back and haunt them. But I can't remember the last time the automotive industry moved in the "right" direction so wouldn't bet my house on it.
i think mechanical is referring to powertrain (including driveshafts, brakes), as suspension regulation will be different from rally2. also you have to buy from the same producer, u can't have engine from skoda, trasmission from toyota and gearbox from m-sport, let's say.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
on engines: you can source it from rally2 or have your own production-based, similar to rally2 spec. (same as skoda with his 2.0 "reduced" if i get it right)
That's not true: https://youtu.be/X-HMEQAfX04?t=740Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
It also makes no sense where those parts aren't even made by M-Sport, Ford, Citroen, Skoda whatever... why not buy from their suppliers? Why insist on buying from people who are disinterested in these regs? How is that helping cut costs, increase entries...? It doesn't.
If a bodywork only constructor buys a rolling chassis from another constructor, they must stick to what was used without changes. That's absolutely fine.
Is it confirmed? It makes no sense. It won't cut costs and increases barriers, regulation and scrutiny; for what?Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
That's something that was in older ruleset draft, but it isn't a case.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler