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Loeb didn’t make any mistakes that I saw this weekend whereas there were a few times Ogier was a bit fortunate. That helicopter shot on the right hander where he was exceptionally close to going off on the snowy section. Also some of his cuts were a bit whoa.
So for that reason I wasn’t surprised by the puncture.
Loeb you could argue had the sense to hold back where he wasn’t sure.
Interesting to note quite a bit of reference to Loeb being GOAT. Which is probably right.
ewrc-results is down for me at the moment... too many people went to check the results to see if they were dreaming or not? :D
The stage-end interview with Ogier where he indirectly blames Pirelli for the puncture. That was showing the big difference between Loeb and Ogier as human beings.
For me that is a reason why i always had prefered Loeb over Ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Loeb always down to earth,never blaimed anybody,never moaning,and the biggest reason is that when he was loosing a rally never told excuses. He just said that this weekend Gronholm ,Ogier,Latvala etc was simply faster.
I think that now there can be no more doubt.
I like Ogier so I'm stepping into the shoes of others who say he likes to find excuses here.
"Seb, you jumped the start."
"Ah, there was a noise with the engine it distracted me"
While both are amazing drivers, only one of them is a gentleman... such a shame that one of the best drivers of all times had to be one of the whiniest as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Loeb 27
Ogier 19
Rovanpera 17
Breen 15
Neuville 11
Msport 42
Toyota 39
Hyundai 13
I wonder what these comments would have looked like had Ogier not had that puncture.
"I always knew Ogier was the GOAT"
"There can be no more doubt!"
etc.
You must be new hereQuote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
Yes, for sure Ogier drove very well and tactically, as usual. Here we always compliment him on his incredible ability to know when to take risks, avoid trouble, etc. However, this rally he found himself under pressure from his nemesis and I believe that caused him to take more than normal amount of risks and even make a jump start (very rare among Rally1 drivers) on the most critical stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz
At 47 years old, beating all the young guns and even if Ogier would've won I would've said the same. Ogier is the reigning champion while Loeb has been making random appearances just for fun. All the rest of the field should now take a big breath after being beaten by oldtimer.Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
And don't get me wrong these mistakes happen when you're under pressure. Just that for Ogier others are childs play until Loeb steps into the game.
It's actually quite unbelievable really.
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
The difference is:Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
if the world champion Ogier wins the rally against semi-retired 47 years old Loeb, well, nothing incredible.
but if semi-retired 47 years old Loeb, straight after Dakar, jumps in the Puma and wins against 8 times world champion Ogier... now that's incredible, and shows what a driver he was and still is.
5 minute onboard of Tänak from SS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQaObp8FGy8
I feel ogier would not have had his puncture and jumpstart if it wasn't for loeb. Loeb seems to be the only driver that can get under his skin and make him push over the limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
They are both goats, loeb just has an age advantage. Lets see what ogier will achieve in the next 10 years.
There is ONE absolute GOAT in the sport and then there is a retired LOSER sick crying dog that nobody will miss ever apart from a bunch of "people" (newflash: they are not humans) that the only reason they support the sick crying dog is because the absolute GOAT beat their favourite drivers again and again AND AGAIN during his reign and they feel hurt like sick dogs without an owner...Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
"sometimes there is justice in the sport"
Is this kind of dehumanizing language permitted around here? I don't like being called a "sick dog" just for posting a lukewarm comment in defense of Ogier. I'm not even a hardcore Ogier fan, I've always wanted Thierry to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOT
It's just NOT, he's a bit of an idiot. I thought he was banned already long time ago, I see he's back on a new account.
I understand believing Loeb is better than Ogier, but calling him a "retired LOSER sick crying dog"? Like, okay...? And I got flak for saying "RIP Fourmaux" (in obvious jest), but this is okay around here?
No its not permitted by lesser users so do not use it...Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
The guy had been banned, somehow he popped up again, rest of the forum doesn't speak like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
Just wow... go outside and enjoy some fresh air.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOT
You can report him and move on, he'll probably be banned soon enough again.Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Also throughout the first stages, Isabelle was quite off the pace with her notes, first stage too fast, second often late. You could hear the direct feedback towards her at the end of the stages. It's not surprising given her limited experience with fast cars and drivers, that there was a bit of a struggle to start with. He never mentioned any of it in the stage-end interviews even while it visibly frustrated him. There is a lot many people can learn from Loeb, not just rally drivers.
Yep, Ogier has own complex for Loeb. Always focusing on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Since we have the forever Ogier vs Loeb debate....
For me Ogier has better results (with 3 different manus and complete domination over everyone including Latvala in VW).
Loeb could have possibly gotten as good results, but "sadly" for him the competition was rather thin during some of his career and he never had to change teams.
On a personal level I agree that Loeb doesn't have same excuses for everything like Ogier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
The competition for Loeb was arguably less, because he was a level above everybody.
at French forum who can understand their language through onboards said that some times she was totally lost with notes,and find the correct note after some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Can understand her pressure of course.
Maths lesson will be fun for the kids this week. If a Ford Puma travelling at 100kph crosses the line.... who is leading the championship?
And that fact makes Loeb even bigger. As person and driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
We need to remember that Loeb also lost some time during the Friday because of technical issues.
Loeb didnt loose championship from anybody.Ogier lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Loeb beat Ogier with same car while cleaning ALL gravel rallies.
Loeb won championships against World Champions like Sainz,Mc Rae,Makkinen,Kankkunen,while at Ogiers era wasnt any World Champion.So Loeb had much stronger opposition not Ogier.
About different manufacturers Loeb just answered today if he was able to win with other car except citroen.
Even if he hadnt win today,why he had to change team when he had a good car/team/salary?
Its like to ask Ogier when competing at VW to change team.
Couldn't agree more, the winning with different teams/manufacturers complex many fans have is far from relevant in the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Nope. For 4 years ( 2009-2012) there were 2 teams. Out of these Loeb's teammates were basically not allowed to fight him. (Sordo Spain, Ogier etc..).Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
Personally I think Loeb could achieve same type of results like Ogier, it's just that there was no opportunity.
I bet it was traumatizing seeing Loeb beating Mcrae in the same car..Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
i suggest therapy instead of creating stories about the greatness of Ogier winning championships against a bunch of nobodies...
Ogier is nothing... he was nothing and will be forgotten...
i cannot imagine this atmosphere will ever be recreated for Ogier even if his house is a few yards away
Attachment 2235
Don't agree with this one, Loeb before him didn't allow any other world champions, altough some were close, so kinda not Ogier's fault. I think overall if you really look at the details the competition was similar but they were both 1 level above their contemporaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
For me the 1 doubt that remains is that Ogier won titles with more manufacturers. Other than that Loeb won with more generations of car (Xsara, C4, DS3, and now rally wins with C3 and Puma). And now in this direct fight where Ogier had all the advantages (knows the team, participated in developing the car, has recent form in WRC, had some rest) Loeb comes from finishing 2nd in the Dakar, takes a shower goes to a new team and is challenging him.
And there is a final plus for Loeb, that is not Ogier's negative but it's just that Loeb was first. Loeb changed the game, he had the efficient driving style, pragmatic championship approach and was fast on all surfaces. Each individual trait is not new but I think he was the first to have all of them.
Loeb vs Ogier - there are too many variables to compare who is better over all time, and for me it does not matter. They are both masters with their own way and own style, one likes more one style, another likes more another style.
This time in Monte is win for Loeb. We can have endless and pointless discussion "but Ogier had puncture", there are so many "if-s" in rally, that we can overlook all rallies and stages if we want. At the end, in the protocol, the winner is Loeb. Simple as that.
Like it was mentioned before - we just should be happy to be able to observe this battle between masters.
... and to be honest, after Monte, it gives taste for other rally wins and for entire championship - "you are the best after 2 kings". Yes, I know, that those kings would both be master everywhere and Monte is kind of home event for both. But still...
Hopefully Hyundai is also getting their problems kind of sorted and we will see more tight battles in the future.
This is funny, a bit try hard aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
The best argument is that Ogier didn't beat any world champions, kinda hard when the guy that took previous 9 left.
Anyway if you want something to fume about Loeb didn't get better than 3rd with i20.
Or she could use this one: If a 21 year-old from Finland finishes 4th in a race, how old would the Frenchman who won be?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Wonder if danos was in the car what the times would of been surely talking a few seconds per stage. Full commitment and trust in him. I don't think this would be a talking point Loeb would of easily had the win. But then we wouldn't of came to a final stage showdown and witness ogier choke under the pressure of having to attack Loeb a situation in his career I don't think he has ever found himself in. Really really wanting to beat another competitor and he choked