weakest engine with longer gear ratio? strange!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
usually weak engines goes with shorter gear ratios
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weakest engine with longer gear ratio? strange!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
usually weak engines goes with shorter gear ratios
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Exactly. It makes no sense whatsoever to combine weak engine with the longest gears hence why I do believe the real issue was not the engine because I don't think they are stupid in M-Sport. It seems like they just didn't get everything together as good as other teams and that long gearing is probably one of the miscalcullations.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
@ Eddie: Nice that you post bullshit comments about me on places where I'm not (twitter). Someone just told me...
It's not a weak engine, it's the same engine as before. It's just weaker than the other because they have improved.
And i wouldn't be suprised if m-sport uses old gearboxes, just like they use old engines. They have nothing to win this year, they are just participating.
Maybe they are lacking in torque on long corners because of the combination of the engine and the long gear ratio? As we know, the engine peak powers rarely increase, but they can increase torque where it's needed for the drivers.
M-Sport's engine isnt the most powerful, hence the coming upgrade.
Isnt a long gear ratio good for when there are long maximum speed sections like the Arctic ?
Not BS, my opinion that your opinion was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If you have facts tell them, otherwise dont state opinion as fact.
The event was won by the car with the shortest gear ratios of all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Look at Rally2. There is most likely negligible difference between Polo and Fabia engines. Polo was faster. Why? I don't know but clearly not because of the engine. Which one had longer gearbox? Fabia. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. For sure such long gearing as M-Sport used, was a mistake.
Doesn´t anyone count drivers anymore? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
E-P and Printsport are a winning combination.
Sure lack of torque and too long gearing is wrong combination but it's so obviously wrong that one must ask why would someone select that?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I have only few ideas why that would be possible and still be somewhat logical. Either they tested on a wrong track which didn't have a character of Arctic stages and didn't get the right feedback or they changed something last minute which had trown a pitchfork into their previous effort and ruined all what they did before - could be for example last minute change in aero setup. Or they used wrong setup just to use parts they already had available to save money.
I don't know, IMHO it must have been a combination of more things. Everybody likes to speak about engine or gearing but aero, differentials, suspension, everything playes an important role. As I said before - I don't believe that people working in M-Sport are stupid, hence why I hesitate to accept that easiest but rather stupid explanation.
That's for sure right. I just wanted to use that example that long gearing didn't always make the car faster on fast events and in this case both cars had basically same performing engine ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe
Otherwise I mentioned before that I guess that Printsport know-how has played probably larger role than general difference betwen Polo and Fabia ;)
Suninen estimated that at the moment they have 5-10 hp less power than the competition. Once they have the new engine he believes that all the cars are within 1-2 hp of each other. He did not comment about the shape of the power curves.
From what I gathered he felt the high speed performance issues were more about suspension development and coming up with setup that would work both with and without the aero loads. At present he said that they are struggling when speeds start to rise above 120 km/h. He seemed quite frustrated by lack of testing and availability new parts to test when they do have tests. He said he had once even brought his own Reiger dampers to a test because he wanted to try something new, but in the end they did not choose those.
Do any of you know how many gear ratios are homologated for WRC cars? Or can they be chosen freely?
You are right about there´s more, Mirek. Economy, drivers, available parts, money again.
However knowing their engine is a bit less powerful maybe made them play a game with gear ratios in ARF. Because enginepower matters, believe the guys telling that on forum.
However most of all it could´ve been driversmaterial in the end. Anyway, Malcolm Wilson have to step up, that´s for sure.
Why you put that in my mouth? I have never said so. I have stated that peak power has nothing to do with top speed of WRC cars and that loosing time in high speed sections likely wasn't due to the engine alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Peak power is also power. Used on 6th gear on full speed it matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
But in rallying it's quite rarely used for longer times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Maybe I should also measure the long straight from Sarriojärvi, Aittajärvi or Kaihuavaara where they go a kilometre straight and see who is fastest on a drag race.
Rarely? We are discussing if Ford are lack of power on straits in Arctic Rally Finland. Why do you even answer like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Yes, hitting top speed is quite rare in today's rallying. I think I can say I've investigated enough routes and watched onboards to feel qualified to say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
The Fiestas could also lose time in fast corners, maybe 5th gear corners, or accelerating from 5th to 6th gear. We don't have enough data to say it.
Better don't start that discussion :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
At least the 760 metres final full acceleration of Kaihuavaara 1 doesn't make any difference between Evans, Neuville or Suninen. They all take exactly the same amount of time, 18.2 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Same thing on the ~1 km straight at the middle of Aittajärvi after the double junction. Rovanperä and Suninen are exactly equal.
My verdict is that when the cars accelerate on a straight road, they are quite equal. Cornering is where they have differences.
Maybe it is about the drivers not using the cars as efficiently and losing time compared to others.
What the hell are you guys on? Suninen said that Ford lacks aero on fast corners. Thats it. It's not rocket sience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
and there were too few corners to make time (difference) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Oliverk
Surprised that he is criticizing the car and everything else quite a lot.. rather than being more polite, taking some blame to himself also and sum up that they need to improve all together on fast rallies..
I could understand it, if he had been in top3 for many events and now going to snow rally, suddenly the car has lost all its performance..
Hyundais basically drove the whole event without rear aero details and it didn't really bother anybody.. drivers didn't mention anything about it in the interviews..
and times were there.
It's not a sudden thing. The Fiestas have been rather slow in Finland 2018, very slow in Finland 2019, Estonia 2020 and now Arctic 2021. Also in Rally Estonia 2019 (non-WRC) Evans was mostly 0.4-0.8 s/km slower than the stage winners. Sadly we didn't get to see Evans's pace in Finland 2019 (to compare with Suninen).Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
In Poland 2017 and 2019 Suninen was making stage wins, and in Finland 2018 he was clearly faster than his teammates.
Missing one piece of the aero doesn't mean it's suddenly not working at all. There was even a theory that they deliberately wanted to get rid of those rear side fenders.Quote:
Hyundais basically drove the whole event without rear aero details and it didn't really bother anybody.. drivers didn't mention anything about it in the interviews..
and times were there.
Suninen is not a stable driver,so take with a pint of salt whatever he says.This doesnt mean that fiesta has a top engine of course.
Imho thats not the problem,or at least its not the major problem.
i am pretty sure if we could give him 10bhp more and 5kgm torque more,nothing would be changed.
Same for Evans at Arctic.Same for Greensmith.
I'm personally inclining to what JAP wrote - that the main issue may be in the suspension not working properly with heavy downforce load, i.e. with growing speed. From what we have seen so far that seems to be a plausible explanation. Still it's just guessing and we will likely never know for sure.
Actually Suninen said that dampers won't work like it should in high aero places and he thinks that biggest time differens comes from that area. He said that Ford is very Quick when conditions are worse because car is very easy to handle.
More twisty sections are better for Ford.
Designing suspensions that work in both high and low speeds in high aero cars is a common problem that is not easy to solve. Especially in the varying conditions of rallies. On tarmac the typical solutions involve third dampers and springs, but I assume that nothing like that is in use in WRC cars (?). Or active suspension if the rules would allow.
and plenty of possible other reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Example Evans at Arctic.
Proven car,proven driver,proven engine,last year snow rally winner,and this year he was lost,without know which was the problem,and failing to fix it through 3 days.
Go figure now about Suninen.
just a reminder,Suninen crashed at stage 1 at last rally,and M-sport heads were a bit hard at their speech.
Thanks, this sounds more reasonable and logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tume88
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
Teemu is hard to "judge" because he currently has no real measure in team. He was pretty close to Lappi I think last year.
I believe he is really potential and if possible I think Ford should really see this trough. Has potential to do a "Evans" and "Tänak" kinda resurrection. The guy has serious speed in there.
Thank you for your input on this matter. You sound like you know more details, are you involved in rallying?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
This was why I was so frustrated on the powerstage – I wanted to fight with Sébastien. I know it’s totally stupid and nonsense, but I had this real hope to try to beat him in the last stage.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-...lly-car-debut/
I agree with this but with a pinch of salt. Yes he shows here and there really big flashes of speed and the next thing he is dropping tens of seconds every stage. Go figure but instability, lack of testing, a lesser car has something to do as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by masa90
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
AFAIK nothing of that is allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP
active shocks were banned from xsara days if i remember correct
An interview with Lithuanian crew from Arctic Lapland Rally:
https://rally-week.com/v-jurkevicius...rally-finland/
We saw the high speed spin of this crew on SS10. It was a jump on a narrow road and they jumped too sideways, hit the snow bank while landing and spun. The car stopped some 60-70 meters later facing the wrong direction. It was too narrow to turn. It was just me and my friend and one other tabard photographer at the scene. I ran towards the start to warn/stop the next cars and the other tabard guy were warning after the jump. As the mirrors of Fabia were full of snow, the driver started to reverse and my friend was guiding him with hand signals. About 200-250 meters further there was one of the escape pockets where they could turn the car around. About 5-6 cars went through on warning. Lauri Joona got some time compensation as they were the next car to arrive and had to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neige
If the crew need some pictures from the moment they got to continue, I can help with that.
Thanks for the story!
I'll ask them about photos ;)
Organizer wants Arctic return – but not at all costs
Clerk of the course Kai Tarkiainen wants to bring the WRC back to the Arctic, but not in place of summer's Rally Finland
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/arcti...-at-all-costs/
Wrote this a couple of weeks ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper