Monte Carlo 2011

I was on SS5/7 downhill section in last quarter of stage. The tyre choice of factory Škoda was nothing less than an epic fail. It was completely silly decision! Snow started to fall there at the end of first run and it was snowing all time when spies were going through. They made a narrow clean line on the road but after they stopped driving some hour before start, it disappeared under new snow. When stage started there was some 3-4 cm of snow on the road and cars on intermediate tyres were simply undrivable in downhill, it was very difficult to brake them somehow especially with the fog. On the other hand Delecour was by far most spectacular there. Most of the crews looked quite slow at our spot but guys who were near start where there was no snow told me that it was crazy to see them drifting in high speed on tarmac with winter tyres. But anyway we saw a looot of overtaking at our spot :D

So, tomorrow is another day but it's virtually lost for Juho, what a shame...

Thanks Mirek!

edit. Mirek do you know if at ss 8 Loix, Juho , and Jan had same combo of tyres? ie 2 intermidiates 2 snow tyres?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Škoda usually use gearbox with top speed 171 on tarmac. Peugeot usually use 175, sometimes 165. Škoda used to have shorter 1-2-3 and longer 4-5-6 (Ford even more) but that may have changed through the time.

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But are there any practical differences btw the Sadev and Xtrac boxes? Sounded like the Xtrac feature of the two drop gears in the back diff is one, but saw that they changed the back diff on petters pug yesterday, but might be a normal change.

If they need the torque, cant they just put in a high 6 th, and have the rev drop there instead of btw 3 and 4th ?

I am amazed how quick they go from 1 to 6 gear, so maybe they need 7 gears to get more speed. It can not be healthy for the engine to run on the limiter for up to 40 sec to 1 minute.

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Originally Posted by KKS

Any snow pics?

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/bestofr...th/5373532004/

Incredible driving that the top guys all got through, but Bouffier was incredibly lucky.
Delecour is the Daddy today though, amazed that others all got it so wrong, I'd have thought that heading into changable conditions like that teams would have spread their risk and put some of there drivers each way on choice.

Whats the forecast for tomorrow?

Tommorow at night stages are going to start only 60 crews.Currently Elena is ranking 62th .

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Thanks Mirek!

edit. Mirek do you know if at ss 8 Loix, Juho , and Jan had same combo of tyres? ie 2 intermidiates 2 snow tyres?

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If i understood the tv commentators correct, none of them had the same combo. Loix on 4 snow tyres, Hänninen 2 snow/2 intermediates, And Kopecky on 4 intermediates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4zlePobOoM Bouffier Spins

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Originally Posted by peg306

If i understood the tv commentators correct, none of them had the same combo. Loix on 4 snow tyres, Hänninen 2 snow/2 intermediates, And Kopecky on 4 intermediates.

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Loix had 2 intermediate and 2 snow as irc site wrote.Same Hanninen,but the diff between them at ss8 is very big if they had same tyres(1,20min) specially if you think the flat tyre of last km and 2 spins of Loix

Awful day :-/

Intersesting - by the end of day 2 Solberg still without a single SS win! And not able to keep up with Hanninen!:-o

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Originally Posted by peg306

If i understood the tv commentators correct, none of them had the same combo. Loix on 4 snow tyres, Hänninen 2 snow/2 intermediates, And Kopecky on 4 intermediates.

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Yes, Eurosport guys really said that: it means that none of the top 3 Skoda guys had the same tyres.
Well, isn´t that the spread of risk mentioned by Nornbugger above? Do not forget, according to the split times, Freddy would have been much faster if not for his flat tyre during last 10 km of SS8. Without the flat tyre, Freddy would have almost been attacking the overall lead.
(Not mentioning 4 stud tyres of Delecour and 2 stud tyres of Bouffier - the guys were really the only exception amongst the top drivers...and they are both French :) ).

What I´m trying to say is, that the strategy of Skoda maybe wasn´t that bad as the present results might imply.

Gravel crews had to go 2 hours earlier to see the stage..

I Just arrived home and i've been watching the recorded Eusrosport transmission which was awsome!

Mirek, Hanninen and Kopecky both seemed completely mad about "an insane guy" who sent them racing on those tyres. Bad ambience in the Skoda Team? Were they talking about Hrabanek? What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Barreis

Gravel crews had to go 2 hours earlier to see the stage..

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No. They were driving through stage up to approximately 3 o'clock which is an hour before start. It started snowing at around 2 o'clock and was snowing all the time. I was there...

tolis11, tnx for pics.



And why Kopecky didn't care 2 spare snow tyres as Haninen did?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JMcLLcqP6E

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Originally Posted by Honza H.

Yes, Eurosport guys really said that: it means that none of the top 3 Skoda guys had the same tyres.
Well, isn´t that the spread of risk mentioned by Nornbugger above? Do not forget, according to the split times, Freddy would have been much faster if not for his flat tyre during last 10 km of SS8. Without the flat tyre, Freddy would have almost been attacking the overall lead.
(Not mentioning 4 stud tyres of Delecour and 2 stud tyres of Bouffier - the guys were really the only exception amongst the top drivers...and they are both French :) ).

What I´m trying to say is, that the strategy of Skoda maybe wasn´t that bad as the present results might imply.

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Βut here says that Loix and Hanninen had same combo
http://www.ircseries.com/html/readnews.asp?id=2414

which if it is true is strange the diff between them.

I was listening to IRC Rally Radio, and while they were in the service park, they were discussing the tyre choices - i was slightly surprised by some of the choices. However, there wasn't any doubt in Delecour's mind about his choice - he was extremely positive - "there is snow..." everybody else thought he was mad. I can understand Hanninen's choice - he was covering whatever Solberg did - who chose intermediates, with 2 winter tyres in the boot. What I find strange from Skoda is not splitting their strategy to cover both bases - Kopecky should have been on winter/studded tyres. It always amazes me when in difficult/mixed weather comditions, teams don't always cover both bases. Ducati did the same last year at Donington - in a wet/damp race, both were on dry set ups.
How can so many people get such different weather information, and get it wrong. I thought we all knew it would snow in the afternoon.....

Came home after a long day , and I just couldn't believe my eyes . Delecour 2nd ?!?! I don't think anyone could have predicted this outcome after the 2nd day . The old man first shocked me with a very good and steady pace during the whole rally , but this is simply fantastic ! Seeing Kopecky on 4 intemediates really shocked me , makes a big fail for the whole Škoda Motorsport team ... They had the reasons of course , but the result was catastrophic , 1 Škoda in the top 5 . However , after seeing today's action one must say Loix has realistic chances for a victory . Can't wait for Turini night :)



I guess now its : Go Delecour !!! :)

Now, let´s turn the page: what change in the overall results may we expect tomorrow? Will Freddy reach the top? Is Delecour capable to speed up a bit? Is it still possible to see an overall win of Hanninen? What about other guys from the top 7?

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Originally Posted by Honza H.

Now, let´s turn the page: what change in the overall results may we expect tomorrow? Will Freddy reach the top? Is Delecour capable to speed up a bit? Is it still possible to see an overall win of Hanninen? What about other guys from the top 7?

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Well, tomorrows forecasts are currently very tricky.Local forecast tells that there will not be snowfall in most of tomorrow stages. The weather maps that I just got are showing completely different picture. Snow, snow and in the afternoon - even more snow. Which one is right? Well, my long prediction was generally correct. It was nice weather during the first day and it turned worse today in the afternoon. Currently I would like to say that it turns even more worse tomorrow afternoon.
Assuming, it will be snow and Hanninen is very fast on white stuff (with normal tires:-)). I would position him on podium for sure. But not to the highest step. Did you noticed that there were no retirements in top 10 today? It will not continue like this tomorrow. Current top two drives too crazy to stay on the road for next 5 stages :-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMwjIa5YGXA

Kopecký did not have spare intermediates, he had spare slicks! :D

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Βut here says that Loix and Hanninen had same combo
http://www.ircseries.com/html/readnews.asp?id=2414

which if it is true is strange the diff between them.

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From your article:
(Petter Solberg started stage seven in second overall in his 207 after demoting Freddy Loix when the Belgian spun his Fabia six kilometres into stage six. Solberg gambled by choosing intermediate tyres for the afternoon stages and fell back to seventh, while Loix chose a combination of intermediate and snow covers and managed to hold onto third place as he slithered through the falling snow. )

I think Loix had 2 snow tyres in front and intermediate in the back in ss7.
In ss8 he took two snows and switched those intermediates away.

Hänninen and Solberg had 4 intermediates and 2 snow tyres.
So they could change snow tyres into front and intermediates to back.
All though I think Hänninen had them snow & intermediate tyre in front
and intermediate tyre & snow in th back.

Wow! Looks like I missed out on a lot of action last night! Not sure if it was wise by Hanninen to consider Solberg as his only remaining competition. Hope Petter can get some stage victories tomorrow, then I can't wait until Sweden!

I don't understand using one snow tyre in front and one rear together with one intermediate infront and one in rear. Such car must be very unstable in braking and acceleration.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Tommorow at night stages are going to start only 60 crews.Currently Elena is ranking 62th .

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He still has a chance because there will be a new start list on stage 10 for the 60 crews

What a night! Stayed up until 4am watching it and was amazed the whole way. Some drivers were caught out watching each other for tyre choice rather than looking at the actual conditions. A sudden trend among the front runners, making other people think that must be the better choice. Delecour's quote ,".........because it is snowing!" is especially apt, considering the other competitors were looking at him strangely for his wild different but ultimately correct choice of tyre. Sometimes the service park can be all like sheep, wanting to follow the choice of others, believing that the leading crews will make the correct choice.

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Originally Posted by mm1

Ok then, where are you looking at results, I was looking in the official acm.mc site, and there was no sign of him.

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http://irc-results.com/2011/irc/monte
http://rally-base.com/2011/rallye-monte-carlo-2011/

My view to "tyre choice theme" - We were in the middle of SS 5 and then moved to SS 8. Snow starts when last cars went through SS 5. But, after 40 mins of snowing there wasnt so much snow on the road, no ice. Then we decided to move to SS 8, which was near. We arrived there and no snowing (or only very slightly), no snow on the road. More snow was falling later, but most of top gravel crews went in time without snow. Dont forget, that crews must decided their time choice more than hour before start of the stage! I was on the stage with codriver of one retired crews and in time around 1,5 half before stage start he wasnt sure which tyre choice should be the best. He told he will use D10 for safer reason... With tyre choice it is difficult every year on Monte, because conditions are changing and on different part of stages should be different weather. But for sure, slicks was crazy version from beginning, intermedia was risk... Crews which started later had better information about conditions on stages = better tyre choice = better times.

Photogallery from second day by Roman Kasparek - http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=11633

http://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/6...2aaf12bd31.jpghttp://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/8...6d047846cf.jpghttp://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/3...ec9a41ea5c.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mise

From your article:
(Petter Solberg started stage seven in second overall in his 207 after demoting Freddy Loix when the Belgian spun his Fabia six kilometres into stage six. Solberg gambled by choosing intermediate tyres for the afternoon stages and fell back to seventh, while Loix chose a combination of intermediate and snow covers and managed to hold onto third place as he slithered through the falling snow. )

I think Loix had 2 snow tyres in front and intermediate in the back in ss7.
In ss8 he took two snows and switched those intermediates away.

Hänninen and Solberg had 4 intermediates and 2 snow tyres.
So they could change snow tyres into front and intermediates to back.

All though I think Hänninen had them snow & intermediate tyre in front
and intermediate tyre & snow in th back.

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Loix had four snowtyres both in stage 7 and 8, unfortunally he had puncture for last 10 km in stage 8, but hey that is Monte.
I think analyses of Pluto and Mirek are quite correct. Only thing is that gravelcrews don't decide tyres in Skoda team or in Peugeot team, they have weather crew for that on stage's. The time gravelcrews can go on the stages is too late, as cars are allready left servicepark in Valence. But it is typical Monte Carlo issue.
The time gravelcrew went trough stage 7, the first 8 km of stage was still completely dry as you can see on Kopecky's split after 7 kms. Also stage 8 first part was absolutely no snow, but it got only worse after that, but that time crews allready had to make tyrechoice. But anyhow it all belongs to Monte legendary changing conditions. Today is another day and let's see what will happen with weather today. :)

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I don't understand using one snow tyre in front and one rear together with one intermediate infront and one in rear. Such car must be very unstable in braking and acceleration.

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For the finn it is normal :-P
Anyway, I have done it with road-car once (in my village house I had a car with summer tires two winter tires and two winter tires on the rim and I had to cover 15km to reach to the tire service) and it was indeed much better than winter tires only in front. When the winters were only in front then the back end just didn't had any grip. On the corners it was really hard to slow the car down. When you put one to the front right and other to the rear left, then you have much more control while braking. Otherwise you are like traging the sledge when you slow down, then the sledge passes you :-P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...1/_MG_9749.jpg

Can't forget last night watching the two last stages! What a drama, what an adrenaline!! My phone was ringing all the time, friends were calling-look ''your'' Delecour as he was playing games with others. Still, Buffier was faster!
But I'm proud as hell, as I was the only who belived in him and I wrote that he is capable finishing top3. Guys like Martijns, dimviii, FabraFan, urabus-denoS2000, Barreis and big Pug fan Tom206wrc-you were laughing after my post-I expect at least one apology...You forgot one fact-Delecour was already leading MC in 1991 with Sierra, as half of his today's competitors were filling diapers and drinking breasts milk.....
I'm fully aware that in a ''normal'' rally top IRC regular drivers are faster and so I would not count FD among fastest, but as MC is a special rally, demanding a lot of experience, he was and still is benchmark for others.
So, good luck to all !!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...1/_MG_9642.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7..._MG_1815-1.jpg

Awesome pics Piquet20!

So this morning stage won't be on Eurosport? Or...?

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Originally Posted by Hartusvuori

So this morning stage won't be on Eurosport? Or...?

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Not this morning only for the 10, 11, 12, 13 stages... ;)

So lets start the game again.

-6 to -10 degrees, blue sky and no snow on the stage