Hamilton: Maybe it's because I'm black

Lewis comes across like a spoiled prick in that interview. He should take some interview lessons from Kimi, and just keep his mouth mostly shut. :D

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

[youtube]BzyHNoWP4uc[/youtube]

Onboard view of the Massa-Hamilton accident. Massa clearly takes a different and much tighter line at Loews than the Red Bull and Torro Rosso in front of him and turns in much sooner. Why? Was he trying to overtake Webber? But Webber was already past the corner. Hamilton's nose was at Massa's sidepod when he turned in to him. Surely he could have seen this in his mirrors?

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Hamilton has his car half up the the side of the Ferrari but Massa has already made a move to the left before Hamilton gets there. He makes another move to the left after Hamilton has stuck it up the inside. Hamilton must have seen Massa moving left and decided to chuck it up the inside anyway. Pause it at the 15 second mark, just before the two cars collide. I don't think Massa has anywhere to go. If he goes right he tags Webber left rear with his front wing, which is something that happens anyway when the Ferrari is pushed to the right after the impact with the McLaren. Massa could have given Hamilton more room but Hamilton was being way too optimistic to think that pass was going to stick. Even if he had passed the Ferrari Massa had the line for the next right hander and Hamilton would have had to fall in behind him.

Hamilton should know by now he can't do that with Massa. It's quite usual to see an overtaking on Massa ending up with a contact. He doesn't know how to defend or went to quit. It's a deadly combination.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Hamilton has his car half up the the side of the Ferrari but Massa has already made a move to the left before Hamilton gets there. He makes another move to the left after Hamilton has stuck it up the inside. Hamilton must have seen Massa moving left and decided to chuck it up the inside anyway. Pause it at the 15 second mark, just before the two cars collide. I don't think Massa has anywhere to go. If he goes right he tags Webber left rear with his front wing, which is something that happens anyway when the Ferrari is pushed to the right after the impact with the McLaren. Massa could have given Hamilton more room but Hamilton was being way too optimistic to think that pass was going to stick. Even if he had passed the Ferrari Massa had the line for the next right hander and Hamilton would have had to fall in behind him.

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Your last sentence is exactly what I have said earlier in this thread. If only Massa had been a bit more patient, taken the usual line at Loews, given Lewis a bit more room, he still would have gotten ahead at Portier damage free and would have been the car ahead entering the tunnel. Also agreed that Lewis was a bit too eager. Racecraft error from both drivers there.

I watched onboard videos of a lot of cars going through Loews, and it seems the only proper line is what the Torro Rosso and Webber took through there, otherwise you come out too close to the barriers on the right and you've gotta go extra wide on the left to make the apex for the next right hander. Like I said before, Massa was too far back to attempt an overtaking move on Webber, so it seems that he only moved early to block Hamilton. At which point Hamilton's front wing was already at Massa's sidepods. Also, Massa touched the back of Webber because Hamilton punted him, again as a result of Massa turning in too soon. If he had given Lewis a BIT more room, both cars would have made the corner damage free and Massa would still have been ahead. Or he just simply had to yield because Lewis was halfway through the overtaking and was obviously a much faster car. That's what Rosberg and Lewis did when MS overtook them at the same corner. They didn't HAVE to yield, but they did, showing better racecraft and patience, while taking care of their car understanding that this is Monaco.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

Your last sentence is exactly what I have said earlier in this thread. If only Massa had been a bit more patient, taken the usual line at Loews, given Lewis a bit more room, he still would have gotten ahead at Portier damage free and would have been the car ahead entering the tunnel. Also agreed that Lewis was a bit too eager. Racecraft error from both drivers there.

I watched onboard videos of a lot of cars going through Loews, and it seems the only proper line is what the Torro Rosso and Webber took through there, otherwise you come out too close to the barriers on the right and you've gotta go extra wide on the left to make the apex for the next right hander. Like I said before, Massa was too far back to attempt an overtaking move on Webber, so it seems that he only moved early to block Hamilton. At which point Hamilton's front wing was already at Massa's sidepods. Also, Massa touched the back of Webber because Hamilton punted him, again as a result of Massa turning in too soon. If he had given Lewis a BIT more room, both cars would have made the corner damage free and Massa would still have been ahead. Or he just simply had to yield because Lewis was halfway through the overtaking and was obviously a much faster car. That's what Rosberg and Lewis did when MS overtook them at the same corner. They didn't HAVE to yield, but they did, showing better racecraft and patience, while taking care of their car understanding that this is Monaco.

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Great summarisation post. This is exactly what happened. Unfortunately it is all very easy for us to say this in hindsight. It should be a drivers natural race instinct to know where to place his car in the event of an overtaking maneouvre. The job of the car in front is to make it as tough as possible for his competitor to pass without them both touching. From Hamilton's point of view he was overly eager but from Massa's he clearly moved to block Hamilton, something he surely would have instinctively known was going to most likely end in contact. Either way both drivers were at fault but Hamilton was too far back to attempt and overtaking attempt on the first place.

Personally, I feel Massa won't be at Ferrari for long more. He isn't quick anymore, he shows bad judgement. He then comes out and asks for harsher penalty against Hamilton when he himself was part responsible for the accident. He's not the same Massa we knew and loved in 2008 and 2009. Such a shame. I can't imagine Ferrari being patient with him much longer, he simply isn't performing.

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Originally Posted by X-ecutioner

Your last sentence is exactly what I have said earlier in this thread. If only Massa had been a bit more patient, taken the usual line at Loews, given Lewis a bit more room, he still would have gotten ahead at Portier damage free and would have been the car ahead entering the tunnel. Also agreed that Lewis was a bit too eager. Racecraft error from both drivers there.

I watched onboard videos of a lot of cars going through Loews, and it seems the only proper line is what the Torro Rosso and Webber took through there, otherwise you come out too close to the barriers on the right and you've gotta go extra wide on the left to make the apex for the next right hander. Like I said before, Massa was too far back to attempt an overtaking move on Webber, so it seems that he only moved early to block Hamilton. At which point Hamilton's front wing was already at Massa's sidepods. Also, Massa touched the back of Webber because Hamilton punted him, again as a result of Massa turning in too soon. If he had given Lewis a BIT more room, both cars would have made the corner damage free and Massa would still have been ahead. Or he just simply had to yield because Lewis was halfway through the overtaking and was obviously a much faster car. That's what Rosberg and Lewis did when MS overtook them at the same corner. They didn't HAVE to yield, but they did, showing better racecraft and patience, while taking care of their car understanding that this is Monaco.

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Blah blah blah..... if only that guy hadn't been standing there when the bullet travelled through the same space that his head was occupying then he wouldn't be dead, it's clearly his fault he's dead not :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Blah blah blah..... if only that guy hadn't been standing there when the bullet travelled through the same space that his head was occupying then he wouldn't be dead, it's clearly his fault he's dead not :dozey:

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Actually, in this instance, it's more a case of "If only the guy hadn't moved into the path of the bullet as he saw it coming towards him". Let us get the analogy right please ;)

Is there anything that's happened in F1 in recent years that has been blown out of proportion quite as much as this? Stupid driver makes stupid comment and all of a sudden the sport is falling apart.

What it has got me thinking though is why do we expect drivers to be so professional and always toe the line? Why do we expect drivers to be like Jenson and always speak the corperate speak, rather than Hamilton or Webber who speak out against their team etc. Put aside the issue of Lewis always blaming others (which is just a genuine dellusion on his part), what's so bad about speaking out about the stewards and his team? The rest of us know that the stewards make some weird choices (largely to do with lack of consistency) and that McLaren made a few mistakes during that race, and at a number of times over the years. Why is it reasonable to expect Lewis, or whoever the driver may be, to suck it up and lie about it all?

Incidentally, I'm as guilty as anyone in this. I've moaned about Alonso and Webber blaming their teams in the past, and I still think it's classless, but how many of us can say that we've never had a whinge about our employers at one time or another?

Edit: Oh and loving the 'visitors found this page by searching for..' bit for this thread :D

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Actually, in this instance, it's more a case of "If only the guy hadn't moved into the path of the bullet as he saw it coming towards him". Let us get the analogy right please ;)

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You're missing the point, people shouldn't go around shooting at or around people...... just as drivers shouldn't try and send a rather hopeful one up the inside like Lewis did.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Blah blah blah..... if only that guy hadn't been standing there when the bullet travelled through the same space that his head was occupying then he wouldn't be dead, it's clearly his fault he's dead not :dozey:

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Blah indeed.

OT: Logitech and Microsoft suck serious monkey balls. I hope Microsoft buys Logitech and then goes bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You're missing the point, people shouldn't go around shooting at or around people...... just as drivers shouldn't try and send a rather hopeful one up the inside like Lewis did.

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Yeah, definitely, drivers shouldn't try to overtake in a "race" ever. Someone should have told this to Damon Hill and Jacques Villenueve when they came to overtake the painfully slow moving Schumacher on the track. The resulting accidents were of course their fault.

Now with the latest penalties, stewards have pretty much guaranteed a procession at any track that doesn't allow overtaking. Fans must be so happy. :)