i assume this is the first year you have followed the wrc?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
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i assume this is the first year you have followed the wrc?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
So you think in a straight fight Ogier is as quick as Tanak??
OZ Citröen Press Release.. Full committed to 2020
REACTIONS FROM…
Pierre Budar, Citroën Racing Team Principal
“We have learned the lessons from Spain and everyone on the team is totally committed to the goal of getting back on the podium in Australia, as well as continuing to plan for 2020 so that we can start the new season in the best possible shape. If the weather stays dry, then Esapekka and Janne will have a great chance here. It’s an event they really like. Meanwhile, although Sébastien and Julien aren't as well placed in the running order, they have already proven in the past that they are capable of producing very strong performances from that kind of position.”
Interview with Adamo about securing Tänak signature : https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actuali...es-207201.html
Google translate helps somehow.
When did you think about recruiting Ott Tänak?
In January.
:laugh:
I believe that in a straight fight in the same car ogier is faster than tanak. Just like has been proven in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Ogier is the man who was faster than loeb, the man who ridiculed everyone in his s2000 year, the man who demoted every single team mate he has had. And most of all, ogier is the man who has won 6 championships in 2 different cars.
Tanak is the man who just happens to have a very dominant car and bad teammates this year.
Next year will be exciting, because now we will really see how much of his speed was due to the toyota. Perhaps i will have to adjust my opinion after a few rally's, but untill then there is not a single reason to think that tanak is faster than ogier.
Seems that we follow different WRC :)Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Proven in 2017? Can not agree. I remember some team-orders in place. Ogier was clear number one by team-orders, had often improvements and new parts on car (so not 100% equal always).
Ogier is fast, no question about that, 6 titles didn't come as gifts. Is Ogier faster than Tänak in 2019+, I doubt. So, I have different opinion. The truth here is something we will never know.
no ,he was slower all year ,with better road position at same car.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
2017Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Rally wins
Ogier 2
Tänak 2
Stage wins
Tänak 30
Ogier 22
Rally leaders
Tänak 40
Ogier 14
Yeah, because there were no signs of any speed when Tänak was at M-Sport...Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
And the Yaris is driven flatout and occupies the podium all the time by others also...
of course there were. there were however no signs that he would suddenly be much faster than ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
remember that mighty dominant polo? in 4 years ogier collected 1088 points, latvala collected 675.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
by comparison, in the last 2 years tanak collected 444 points. latvala 222.
its not tanak who has suddenly discovered something magic when changing cars, its just latvala and meeke who are utter failures in driving that dominant toyota.
No need to throw some numbers around, you can say exactly the same about Neuville/Hyundai as you can about Tänak/Toyota. I think that at this point you can put Tänak in any WRCar, and he'd be the quickest driver. It's up to Neuville to make his homework now, fast... ;)
let him be, its clear to see he wont change his mind
im sure IF Tänak next year SHOULD be as fast with the Hyundai, then people will start talking that the Hyundai is the most dominant car and etc
Well the second part is rather obvious:Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Podiums:
Tanak 9 (6 wins), his teammates: 3 (33%)
Neuville 8 (3 wins), his teammates: 5 (62,5%)
Ogier 7 (3 wins), Lappi: 3 (43%)
Latvala and Meeke have 3 podiums from 26 starts (8,6 starts per podium!, 13 for Meeke, 6,5 for Latvala)
Lappi has 3 podiums from 13 starts (4,3 starts per podium)
Mikkelsen has 3 podiums from 10 starts (3,3)
Evans has 2 from 10 starts (5)
Sordo has 2 from 8 starts (4)
Even assuming the 4 cars are exactly the same Latvala and Meeke numbers are devastating. As to the cars... between Turkey 2018 and Turkey 2019 Toyota had highest number of stage wins on every single rally, out of 13 rallies this year they had highest number of stage wins in 11. (but yes, lot of these are off course due to Tanak)
is NOT back?
I also think at the moment Tanak is faster than Ogier but you have to take into account that Ogier is near the end of his career while Tanak is at his peak. Also in the past Ogier was not always the fastest, maybe also in part due to road position, but he was fast enough to get on the podium and error free, that's why he won a lot of championships, being the fastest is not the only thing that matters. Tanak has had the speed for years but only a couple years ago he started to be consistent. Maybe he learned some things from Ogier too?
Interesting in those stats about number of podiums for number of starts, Mikkelsen is doing well, sure road position counts but in a world where the top 3 are taken and also based on his past form in the Polo I would like to see him in a different car.
Last year Tanak got fast on every rally. First this year he learned not to push 100% all the time. Or as Tommi said in Spain after the championship win he stopped trying to win every stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Well, yeah, that wise talk again, maybe, BUT the top 3 was the same last year and unlike last year, he was the chasen one, previous year he was the chaser...behind two of the top 3. Quite a simple option, if you want top be ahead of someone, you have to go faster than the ones ahead of you. Lets also remember, that before his 3 in a row, it looked like he was out of the game, pretty much.
Now you can ofc talk how the best rallycar in the world is supposed to break 4 times with the same issue etc (most of the time chasing the other top3 members) , but hey, be my guest.
I quoted Tommi, but off course who is he to know...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Well, everyone makes mistakes, maybe i could be wrong in this also, but when you have three men fighting for the wins (apart from latvala in Australia) and you are in third position, only way to get in front, is to be faster than your rivals, who happen to win or score big on every event... When you are already at the front, it is about controlling and not going flat out all the time...and he managed that quite well, if you look at the standings throughout the year. Ogier himself has said, that the last rounds he was in all or nothing mode aka going for it at all cost or binning while doing it.
But being points behind, you can`t count on your luck/ others bad luck like some championships have been decided...
I think Neuville V Tanak in the same car will be very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Neuville starts with the advantage of knowing the car inside out, and as we have seen it is clearly a car that needs a certain finesse to get the best out of, particularly on tarmac. If Tanak can get the better of Neuville consistently it will be a bloody good effort.
On (dry) tarmac the big question is what Hyundai is going to do if the car as is doesn't suit Tanak (like Loeb and Mikkelsen) while it suits Neuville (and Sordo). That will be the real test for Adamo imo. Since it will be Tanak and Loeb vs Neuville and Sordo it is likely he will go for changes. Question is if they are possible with just homologation jokers.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Then again on tarmac there is only Monte (which is unlikely to be dry and warm most of the rally) and then a very long break for 10 months until Germany. By that time it is possible Hyundai has completely new car based on the new I20 and this problem might be completely moot. Starting to wonder if next year calendar with much reduced tarmac rallies might have had something to say for Tanak's signing.
I’m not sure it suits Neuville and Sordo, I just think that perhaps the guys that have struggled more with it on dry tarmac, would find a bigger improvement in time. I happen to think Neuville in particular has been mega with it on tarmac, as I don’t think in real terms it is a match for the Toyota or Ford.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Not sure about Hyundai, but maybe Tanak considered the lack of tarmac in his thinking. I’m sure he is probably expecting it to be worse than the Toyota on dry tarmac.
It's not that Neuville and Sordo are tarmac specialists...
Loeb is historically a much better tarmac driver than Sordo. He was also faster on same tarmac rallies last year when he drove C3 and Sordo drove i20.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Sordo is not tarmac driver anymore. He is pretty fast on gravel as well.
Has there been any new rumors since Evans -> Toyota?
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Is there any better driver to get to Toyota?Quote:
Originally Posted by Katvala
And plz dont come with Mikkelsen - his place is wrc2 as age has been shown. Best quote from his midseason stageend interview was something like that : "I need to learn how to drive". And that says everything about that.
What is Evans good side why Toyota might get him? :
Stable than Meeke and Latvala.
Can drive gravel and tarmac rally-is and even win those when god doesnt thing otherwise.
He is right now "Free agent" with some money to Malcolm.
He has pretty good car know-how from previous team(Meeke and Latvala is lacking on that) what helps with some development.
ETC....
I think the question is again whether Toyota wants him. They let Lappi slip, Sordo slip, Tänak slip and ignored Ostberg, Paddon, Breen and pretty much every other driver that was on the market. With their budget they could get anyone, but somehow they ended up with aging Latvala and Meeke and I doubt that's going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by reff92
They may be waiting to suss the Ogier situation before they make any further plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katvala
Budar confirmed Citroen will be continuing in the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Mikkelsen has pretty much exactly same performance as Evans this year and much better historically. In direct fights this year their score is also pretty much even. They have about same ammount of WRC starts (Mikkelsen about 10% more) and are about same age (Evans 1 year older).Quote:
Originally Posted by reff92
Furthermore Evans has never driven any other WRC car than an Msport one (and without checking I don't think he drove a different R5 either). Mikkelsen drove multiple including 3 out of 4 current ones and two current R5s.
So picking between them is certainly not an obvious decision. The WRC2 comment is ridiculously retarded given that Mikkelsen just finished 4th in the championship with highest number of podiums outside of top 3. Beating 4 other drivers who had 3 more starts than him and Evans who did same number of rallies.
Since Toyota didn't win manu champs. I expect a bit more pressure on Tommi to bring new drivers.
Citroen, Hyundai, ??Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
VW 2017, but that is 3 out of 5. ThxQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Citroën is out of the question unless they for some reason decide to run three cars.
Although, it would put them in a good chance for next year to win the Manu title, with Ogier, Lappi and Mikkelsen. Andreas also did well in the C3 in Germany with his second place. And after Ogier retires, I don't see them being near a title for a long time anyway (assuming they remain for more years)
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Unless Citroën gets more money ( say from Abu Dhabi) I think they will just use what they have for development and testing for Ogier.
Indeed. But it wouldn't be completely out of the picture that they allocated more to the budget for a one off season for a chance at the title, even though it would be tight on money. Another driver could also potentially bring in some money as well..
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Few toughts on Mikkelsen vs Evans topic.
Mikkelsen - for me it seems (and it clearly assumption not any fact-based knowledge) that he is lacking master-mind for how to setup car for his style. If setup accidentally (copied from others?) suits him, he is fast, we have seen that. But with those skills you can be in the team no 2 or 3, not have responsibility on no 1 driver.
Evans with mechanic skill in this term is more valuable (does not have limits on that area) in my opinion.
This is hard to tell from the outside though.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
At Hyundai in 2018, Mikkelsen was supposedly not listened to/allowed to make changes. This year the upgrades for Finland were told to be his work and he was fastest Hyundai matching their best ever result there. On tarmac Loeb is struggling with same issues as Mikkelsen.
What is true is that Mikkelsen has had rallies where he struggled and complained about setup.
With Evans it's really hard to tell, cause as he said he only drove Fiesta (with Ogier in team). Don't think it changed much from last year to this.
So I agree that this kind of reasoing can play a role, but again it's not a clear cut.
IMO Toyotas best choice for next year is to get both, ditch one of Latvala/Meeke and put kalle in 4th car.