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Ogier gets all the hate simply because he is the CHAMP!
How would you feel after plenty of seasons opening the road on most gravel events?! Im willing to bet, without even looking at the stats, that in the seasons where we had championship order on first day Ogier was likely starting first on 70% of the races. It would drive anyone mad.
Here in Portugal it was actually not that bad but in certain rallys (Sardinia, Catalunya) you are almost guareented to be out of contention on 3 bloody stages.
When Sordo will be asked and will deny this ,who are we going to believe?
Full denial or silence, he wants to drive a WRCar. This is just something that will stay in the air I think.
Sordo will say no comment for sure. Personally for me it's like 50 / 50. But I don't think Adamo would "order" Sordo, just ask if he was ok with it.
Same place of Lappi's roll?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Q:
On the Power Stage today, it appeared that you were faster that Sébastien Ogier. Did you slow towards the end?
OT:
It was a long story. The Power Stage was a long one. At first, we were thinking about the strategy a little and we thought that every point would be important at the end of the year. We were going to be three ahead of Seb without the Power Stage points. I thought that I should be faster than him. The plan was to collect as many points as possible but Kris made his mistake and that changed everything. Seb was on the podium and we were on the same level on points. I knew I needed to be a bit slower to avoid opening the road in Sardinia. Then Thierry got in between us and I lost another point.
the rest https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-o-tanak...s-i-have-taken
Ogier's road-order tactics were just to help himself where he felt 'hard done by'. His Sweden snow-ploughing had reduced him to 10th place !Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
M-Sport only used team-orders to drop their own driver(s) back to increase the points scored by their No.1.
None of these were to deliberately disadvantage an opponent, like Hyundai did here (and Adamo wanted to do even worse).
yesQuote:
Originally Posted by JRodrigues
Looking at Meeke spin on the power stage, you have to have some sympathy for him. The tree stump was getting more exposed with each car, otherwise he would habe had it in his pacenotes, and he commited to the angle of attack well before the apex, and most likely the wheel was open, and just snagged the tree stump. Tough one, he maybe was cutting too much, but very fine margins. Dont think he should be too disheartened. He was only 2s off the lead couple of hours earlier. Strong performance, and glad to see him up with top 3 again.
And we are back in 2018.... Eddie saying how Ogier "had to" do what he did, cause he felt bad.....anyway that's not what we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
This year (2019) in Sweden Ogier did exactly the same thing as Hyundai did here.
He drove on purpose after Neuville/Loeb and before Lappi... to disadvantage Neuville/Loeb (less roadcleaning) and give advantage Lappi (more road cleaning). 100% exactly same situation.
ONLY after what, Neuville/Hyundai said they`ll do the same when necessary...and now got the chance. Playing with rules has always been started bu Ogier and in orer to benefit him or his team. Surely Eddie can`t expect other not to follow?
Adamo letting everyone know the real mobsters come from Italy, not France. Lol.
I don't blame anybody for using the rules to advantage. But I want the rules to change so this bollocks stops. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem easy.
No, came in too hot pulled the handbrake and went too tight. The stump was there when Mikkelsen rolled in 2017Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Uh oh. Playing with rules has always been part of any sport. Ogier didn't invented them, and certainly didn't killed all the dinosaurs, nor Kennedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Let's be fair, Hyundai already imposed these 5-6 years ago. Sweden 2018 in everyone's mouth sounds just ridiculous, heloooooooo, make your senses sorted.
Hyundai definitely played some naughty tactics this rally, perfectly legal but not very nice. Ogier's comments could very well be true, Hyundai seem to be a bit desperate this year and desperate times call for desperate measures. At the same time, drivers like Ogier have enormous egos and self-pride and will most likely twist some comments here and there for their own good about stage times, car performance etc. With no real proof of the Sordo situation it's hard to believe either side.
I doubt we will find the exact truth anytime soon, the only people who know for sure are in the employ of Hyundai (everyone else is hearing it from someone else).
Who knows if it was a serious suggestion to perform such a tactic, or just a jokey comment made amongst the guys, or never happened at all...
If it was a serious suggestion and what Ogier is saying is correct, then we all as rally fans should applaud and respect Sordo for refusing it. I don’t have a major problem with the shuffling order tactics as it’s kind of part of the game, and has been in one form or other for decades, but something that would actually place a competitor in a dangerous situation by design (thick dust) is another matter, and actually the WRC/FIA should investigate it.
Moving forward if they want to stop the shuffle of order, I guess they could impose a more severe time penalty for each minute of lateness, and insist that any car missing its start time move completely to the back of the field (within its own class) so it can’t affect anyone more than another one.
Time penalties don't matter when the cars are last WRCs running. Not sure it's possible to realize the "moving them to back of the starters" part in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Removing manu points might help, but for example here Hyundai could then still do it with one of the two cars and risk that they don't score if the other one crashes/retires. Similarly Citroen could still have done it in Sweden cause they don't care about manu points.
It would be better if the teams and drivers agreed that "We'll stop doing it if you stop doing it".
Too much to ask...
The problem is the rule is there currently to penalise a bit guys who are genuinely late to a time control, not ones who are using the rules to gain an advantage for either themselves or a team mate. How do you distinguish between the genuine one, and the tactical one...very difficult in practice to say the guy stopped with his bonnet up on the road section is playing games.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
If you move anyone late to the back, they can’t influence one car more than another...
Yesterday's small exit of tanak was related with the suspension issue he had? i was not reading the forum during this rally and i could not understand from what i have already read and seen.
Yes you are right. I am not so sure if moving behind is always physically possible (i.e. timecontroll on a road/street with one-car width), but that could be changed to accommodate this.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Here we go again, "the stones are in your garden". If you pretend to be better in every aspect, for sure you wouldn't do it, period. Everyone takes his own responsibility for his actions, endangering others is criminal. Hats off to Sordo not complying with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
What I dont understand: when Ogier done tactics, most of forumers called him really nasty names so to say... now hyunday done it - most over here says 'its ok' and some still blames Ogier... go figure 😀 love and hate...
Anyhow, great rally and not often top places are decided in a last day - we live in a really nice era for rally!
Nice in principle, but unwritten rules aren’t rules and this is professional motorsport where companies have invested millions. I wouldn’t want to explain to the board that we didn’t win a World Championship because we didn’t do something, that wasn’t against the rules because we wanted to be nice guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
did Sordo said that Ogier was right?Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
If you mean him running wide on the tarmac corner it probably wasn't directly related to the damper as it was right corner and it was front right damper that was damaged. But certainly the damper could have distracted him.Quote:
Originally Posted by nafpaktos
I don't think it's fair to blame anyone. The rules are like they are, it's up to the teams and drivers to use them to the maximum. The simplest way to solve this issue, is bringing back some rules of the past. Either make the starting order the order of championship, but reversed, or let them pick by qualifying stage again. Now the fight for the championship really only starts in the last few events. They're waiting and know being first now could actually be a disadvantage in the long run. That should change, they should be fighting for each and every point, from the first to the last event.
Ogier's words are good enough for me. I know he puts Sordo in difficult situation, but perhaps that's for good. On the other hand if Sordo really didn't do this insanity, he knows what he's doing. Ringing a bell?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Guys help me to understand the situation. According to Ogier sources, Adamo told Sordo to start the stage and stay stopped for a while to give Neuville less dust? How is it possible? It would just give Meeke more dust but I don't understand how this would help Thierry to have 4 minutes of clear road ahaed of him.
Thanks Antti. Was crazy to watch that happen. Shame for Gus.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Only saw the video and read the comments a few minutes ago but it seems it would give Thierry the 4m gap from the place where Sordo was stopped (the closest possible to the start). Btw, this tactic was used by Lancia in the 80's.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Anyway, maybe the info it’s true, maybe it isn’t, but to turn it public on a PC seems an act of desperation from Ogier. On the other hand, Adamo must also feel highly pressured if Hyundai pull out rumour, in case of not achieving a title this year, is correct. Hope this silly tactics will end soon, for the series sake.
very very trueQuote:
Originally Posted by drive
As far as i understand, they wanted sordo to pull over and start again right after neuville. So neuville wouldn't be in sordo's dust, but meeke would have had a little bit more dust.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
They could easily solve that by always giving 3 or 4 minute gaps on rally's with a lot of dust.
If true that's awful, personally I don't see Ogier making this up and creating this mess if there's nothing in it.
I dont believe any driver would do what Sordo was potentially asked to do, nevermind Sordo doing it to a really good friend like Kris Meeke. They've been friends for years, they hang out away from rallies and the families are close.
Hopefully Ogiers sources are wrong, because I don't beleive Ogier himself has just flung these accusations out there by concocting them himself
Ofc teamorders are ok, when in the limits...and they were this time also. Point was, that it was implied, that it is ok for one man, not ok for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
It will be interesting to see how mr. Adamo handles this within his organization (assuming the allegations made by Ogier are indeed true). The request, so to say, most likely hasn't been presented to Sordo around the breakfast table, i.e. in a place where there would be uncontrollable amount of ears around. In Adamo's view, the list of suspects is probably somewhat short.
Well it would be insane for Ogier to just come up with a story like that for a PC. How would he talk to Sordo after that.
More tinfoil hats on!
While I don't discard Ogier as beeing 100% sure he is wrong I have no belief it would happen with Adamo "secretely" phoning Sordo right before stage and him refusing basically on the startline.
The course of action I could somehow believe is exactly the type of talk around breakfast table. Like: "There are 2 mins gaps on first stage". A: "Well Dani could start and wait for Thierry to pass". DS:"Nah that's too dirty".
Ogier is no stranger to dirty tactics though. Remember Corsica 2017 where he had issues before PS and refused to say if he fixed them? Then Sordo "cruised" on PS and Ogier overtok him driving at full speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by flykas
Also this story makes Sordo look like the nice guy.