hopefully he will moove to MSport next year............
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hopefully he will moove to MSport next year............
M-Sport will not hire him. The only one that they have been interested is already in the team. And they have Evans and Teemu. Meeke is probably nowhere on the list of any team.
We can understand how troubled Meeke must have felt after giving all on the last stage of a frustrating rally (started with an unfortunate mistake of his own), but I honestly can’t get what he gains with this public complains on the car and, eventually, the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
His remarks in last year Germany pre event PC were already beyond any reasonable limit; to see him continuing in this path, giving the press motives to underline a ‘Meeke against the team’ narrative, is a real shame. We can only hope he’ll be able to change this attitude, like apparently he was able to change his driving approach.
Btw, I’m pretty confident Citroen will stay in 2019; not so sure about Meeke.
I can see Hyundai possibly hiring him instead of /if Sordo retires and Paddon does not get back to pre 2017 form.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTR
Agreed, although it depends on this year's performance. But Meeke's current contract is ending after this season. Same for Breen and Lefebvre, as well as Sordo and Paddon. Meeke is also quite old, maybe it's time to retire?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Will be very interesting to hear and see Mr Østberg's feelings on the C3, coming with his Fiesta experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Not sure how much testing he will get before sweden, but he will need a couple of days.
I'm sure Citroen will be more excited to hear about Ostbergs experience in a Fiesta too if they already haven't.
Such a shame they always are so vague.. "Made some improvements"...yeah yeah but say what they did. Deatils are always more interesting..soften the damping? Bars? what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Citroen boss now interviewed:
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/ne...ked-to-budget/
Nothing wrong about the way he's speaking, he's a competitive driver who wants to win so wants the best and is honest. The bosses agree with him that improvements need to be made and have said it on numerous occasions. There's no point sugar coating anything when every man and his dog can see the problems and everyone in the team will be pushing for better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Andruet
Last year (particularly at the start) Ogier was moaning a lot about set up issues and changes he wanted made to the car. This is just what drivers do, even when they have a good car under them like Seb did. They're always wanting more performance from certain areas and for development to increase.
In this specific case here, things are worse as it's the 2nd year in a row the C3 has had the exact same issues as it did 12months ago. The minute you start hearing a driver like Meeke saying the car felt good and he's happy with being nowhere in terms of pace, that's when you can really start worrying about Citroens future and Meeke being resigned to not being able to compete properly at the front.
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So it's Ogier, I think that Neuville too. Latvala maybe and Lappi. Only ones that I'm sure that have contracts until 2019 are Mikkelsen & Tanak.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
There will be no chance for Meeke, quite sure if there is more drivers free on the market.
Ogier didn’t properly moaned about the car, he just justified feeling unease with it by not having been involved on its early development; Neuville made some inconvenient remarks about his team some years ago, but latter he apologized and calmly accepted being 3rd driver in a couple of events; Latvala only talked about his lower status in VW after leaving and the same did Tanak regarding MSport. Most works drivers realize it’s not in their interest to be in constant public complaining mode about their car and/or team.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
There’s no doubt Meeke is a fantastic driver and it’s great to have him in the WRC, but honestly I fear he doesn’t have the right profile to be a leading driver in a WRC team. I also don’t believe he’s an unfortunate victim of a disarrayed French team, like the British press has been eagerly portraying since the problems started; most likely, he also has a share of responsibility (even if small) in Citroen’s current low record.
With or without Meeke, Citroen is one of the most important manus in WRC recent history; I hope they manage to get back into a higher level ASAP and stay in the series for a long time.
Meeke would drive for nothing, to be world rally champion, that i am sure.
He has more desire and heart than any other WRC driver.
He says what he thinks, and what he believes to be honest. If people don't like that, that your problem.
If you want a politically correct rally driver, you have chosen the wrong man
He would gladly walk off into the distance, if we wasn't competitive or able to win.
All things being equal and fair, I think every other driver knows, Meeke is hard to beat.
So for this, he more than deserves a car cabling of competing for WRC title. I think that's all he is asking
How do you measure this? I think all current works drivers are quite equally motivated, perhaps save for Sordo who has said he will never be a world champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with that. Quite opposite actually. What I meant was that it's rare to see someone (say "regular WRC driver") talk in a such candid way about his own team. In this era of highly-monitored PR, it's nice that we have guys like Meeke, but I don't think these kind of statements in public are necessarily good for Kris himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Meeke isnt stupid or some loose cannon... even he wouldnt speak like this if he had a long-term future. I think he's just had enough and cant be bothered playing the PR game any more.
The look on this face on one of the regroup interviews on all live on either friday or saturday said it all. The guy is a broken man. He doesn't believe in the team anymore. Maybe it is a bit premature, the PSA boss sounds like he has his back. Or Kris knows more... who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
What are Citroen doing with just (mostly) two cars this year... what can they do against the other teams with this philosophy. Weird unless its a money issue.
Was it ‘weird’ to see MSport running a low budget entry after Ford pulling out in 2012? Would you prefer Mr. Wilson to have quitted WRC back then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Despite budget restrictions, Citroen guys also didn’t quit. They’re bravely trying to recover from their worst season in many years; as rally fans we should praise their effort and hope they’ll succeed.
M-Sport was a private team and a much different situation. Anyway I think he is talking about who decided to use such a limited budget for a factory team. Everybody is happy they are there but it's ridiculous they're trying to save money everywhere while other are making proper investments for a WRC manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Like I understand from that article from some boss from Citroen (I don't know her name & it doesn't matter) is that they don't need big budget to get recognition. That include Ogier or Mikkelsen. And a permanent third car. Their C3 is selling good despite their bad season and last place and now the slowest car currently. They are following last year's private achievement with low budget (for me quite stupid answer). They need to first build strong competitive car (driveable), then compare to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Fact is a lot of the budget is made up of Sheikh Khalid's money too, so the actual money Citroen is putting in is low compared to the other teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.
However with Meeke being able to win rallies last season and help create good enough publicity, it's clear from what Linda Jackson has been saying that they feel they get enough out of the WRC. Especially for the financial commitment they make.
And in their eyes this year, why run 3 cars? Even if they bring the budget to run 3 cars in every event, they still wouldn't win the manufactures title. I mean Ostberg, Tidemand, Lefebrve or whoever else they could sign as 3rd driver, wouldn't elevate them to potential champions. Ostberg will only contest more rallies in a 3 car if he brings budget to pay for it. So just run two cars on most rounds, and hopefully they push some of the left over budget into extra testing and development which is what they need for that car (as has been shown yet again in Monte...)
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Obviously the situation is far from ideal, but it seems too harsh call it ridiculous, especially at this point of the season. Again: if their choice was between continuing in the series with a smaller budget or to pull out, I’m glad they’ve choose the first.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
I don't believe the tech issues were result of having more or less money than the others (wealthy manus making crap cars is not rare in motorsport) and what has been talked is this year unexpected budget cut (possibly linked to PSA overall situation after Opel buy).Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
[QUOTE=er88;1171150]Fact is a lot of the budget is made up of Sheikh Khalid's money too, so the actual money Citroen is putting in is low compared to the other teams.
They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.
Are you sure that they took risks in design and engineering because they tried to do it on the cheap? or did they just build a crap car? Without sounding funny, I'm guessing you haven't got car-budget development comparisons for the different teams?
[QUOTE=T16;1171155]Hyundai I believe have greatest budget and probably spend way more for development than it's rivals last year. But we all know where this goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Citrën openly admits that this year they are the team with the lowest budget.
[QUOTE=ESTR;1171164]Judging by test kms Citroen used most money for 2017 car development before start of the season. (Ignoring VW). Hyundai was next. (There is a table showing "official" test km before 2017 start)Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
During first half of 2017 Hyundai and Toyota looked similarly committed, but from mid-2017 it seems like Toyota is the biggest spender.
(This is just my speculation based on visible number of testing days)
[QUOTE=mknight;1171177]Compare to Hyundai they include 3rd car from portugal. Then send only two cars to Australia later on. And Hyundai is not somehow commited. Oh yeas they have 4 drivers under contract (Mikkelsen probably isn't cheapest).Quote:
Originally Posted by ESTR
Yes that's some good points. Toyota focused the budget more on development at the second half of last year while Hyundai got Mikkelsen and 4 cars in GB to try to get title(s).
Still so far this year it does not seem like there is a big budget difference between them (and if then not in favor of Hyundai). Impossible to know for sure of course.
Anyway it also matters a lot how you use the money. As mentioned it looked like Citroen had ample funds during C3 development. But they choose not use the money on experienced (development) drivers, which in hindsight might have been clever.
As I've understood, then when it comes to French teams, the engineers are the kings and the drivers can f...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
So when is the next time Citroen will be allowed to make changes on their cars?
2019. The same homologation must be used for three years (2017 – 2019). During the three year period they can only use jokers and probably variant options (VO) for some parts. Current rules are valid until the end of 2022.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Only in Finnish:
https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-200000...ef3ede44802329
And Meeke probably don't have motivation if he already knows where he will be next year(s).
I was talking about the Jokers.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Money for car design and development isnt everything, as M-Sport proved last year (although paying for the best driver helps).
But Citroen going into the 2018 season with a two-car team against everyone else with three and expecting to compete is just madness.
Maybe they want to be last on standings and that they are there just for show and drama...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Feel free to do that. (just kidding ;))Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
They have a limited amount of jokers per year / homologation period. Looking at the list of homologations for Hyundai, it’s possible to make a new joker homologation every month if they want to spend all the jokers right away. Citroen’s Patrice Davesne said in an interview (RallySport Magazine October 2016, page 44-45 https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/...e_october_2016) that regarding the engine they have 3 jokers per year.
“We can make changes, but some parts of the engine are frozen by regulations for three years. For example bore is not allowed to change, the distance between cylinder and the distance between camshaft can’t change. But we have three jokers per year and, for example, we can change in the same year the pistons, connecting rods and oil sump. Each year there are three jokers and we can use as we want.”
Davesne said three jokers but Hyundai have made four jokers for the engine?
https://www.fia.com/file/65105/downl...token=P01P9A00
HYUNDAI (page 33):
01.01.2017 400/01 WRC VARIANTE KIT WRC 2017 01.01.2017 401/01 VO VITRAGE / WINDOWS 01.01.2017 402/02 VO MOTEUR / ENGINE EQUIPEMENT ELECTRIQUE / ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.01.2017 403/01 VF MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.02.2017 404/01 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.02.2017 405/03 VO CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.03.2017 406/04 VO SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.04.2017 407/02 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN 01.04.2017 408/03 ER SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION 01.04.2017 409/04 ER SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.06.2017 410/05 VO CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.07.2017 411/01 ERJ MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.03.2017 412/06 VO MOTEUR / ENGINE SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.08.2017 413/02 ERJ MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.09.2017 414/05 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.09.2017 415/03 ERJ MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.10.2017 416/06 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.10.2017 417/07 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE 01.10.2017 418/07 VO RANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.10.2017 419/04 ERJ MOTEUR / ENGINE CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK 01.12.2017 420/08 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE
Thankx for the extended info :)
Mads left for France to meet the Citroen team today, and the plan is to get first test tomorrow, Mads told a Norwegian newspaper during Rally Finnskog yesterday.
Not sure where he will test tomorrow, but probably at a Citroen Test venue.
He need to find some snow and ice asap! How much is he allowed to test before sweden? Are there limitations?
If this becomes more than a one off, he needs to get a C3 R5 to get familiar with size and form, and get Citroen km.
Well, outside of a certain circle of distance (I forget how far) to the team's main base there is a limitation of test days (which I forget the number of as well). All teams except Toyota have to leave that circle to get realistic test conditions for Sweden. Given that Sweden is such a specific rally and that Mads will play a far smaller roll in Citroen's makeup I fear he'll not get an awfull lot and therefore probably not ideal amount of testing. At least he'll be able to risk a bit more since he doesn't have to finance each piece of the car he breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland