Nice; it seems they’re debuting the 124 gravel kit, that Abarth has been promising for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboar
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Nice; it seems they’re debuting the 124 gravel kit, that Abarth has been promising for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboar
Yes, Ciamin is going to drive it on gravel in France too.
Yes, he is :) He is 17th overall after the first leg and says he is very happy driving this car on gravel stages :)Quote:
Originally Posted by wildboar
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1879/...124f7182_b.jpg
Are you sure it's a debut? Andrea Modanesi has been driving Abarth in Italy for a long time. Today he was 27th in Rally Adriatico and it is a gravel event, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=198070
I think it was also driven in gravel in Romanian championship in May...
In their press release FIAT says that their Abarth 124 Rally already scored 30 category wins this year :)
http://www.abarthpress.com/press/art...he-2018-season
Wrong me. Modanesi apparently used the gravel kit once before, last June on San Marino Rally. Anyway, as promised 2 years ago, Abarth is making the 124 Rally more versatile and competitive, which is great for RGT. Well done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Btw, no records on eWRC of Tempestini using the 124 in Romania (gravel or tarmac) events.
Arad Rally end of May with Tincescu...
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/4...ului-kia-2018/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/413451/
Great to know there are so many 124’s rallying nowadays; it’s a proof that RGT is becoming popular!
So, will someone find out another unfamiliar driver from a remote location who has run a 124 on gravel before or can we confirm Tincescu was the first one?
So Tempestini and his Abarth finished Rally Poland in the 16th position. Now he also entered the 8th round of European Championship - Rally Liepaja in Latvia - also on gravel :) Good luck!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1854/...3126d041_b.jpg
https://b.jcms-api.com/media/712102c...p-1140x814.jpg
Holly cow! Jaguar has made an RGT!
Ok, it’s just a demo F Type created to celebrate the XK 120 rally heritage, still it looks wild and it’s great to see the brand somehow associated to the sport. It’d be even greater if they put a hardtop on it, get the RGT homologation and start competing on real rallys. Go for it Jag!
Full PR: https://media.jaguar.com/news/2018/1...s-car-heritage
Video: https://youtu.be/YsUcDmCmLMg
https://files1.porsche.com/filestore...port-image.jpg
The new 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport (base for the possible RGT homologation) is finaly out; it’s a mild evolution of the previous model, using the same 3.8 boxer engine (now with 425hp) and 6 speed PDK gearbox; it weigths 1320kgs (20 more). Fingers crossed for seeing it on a rally!
Full PR: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ort-16733.html
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40u4SXYHjAE
R-GT version is coming, green light from Porsche
718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport
https://www.rallye-magazin.de
That's fantastic! Hope other GT4 manus (Alpine ahead) will follow Porsche example!Quote:
Originally Posted by CWJ
An interview with Luca Napolitano, Head of Fiat & Abarth. He speaks about record year for Abarth, in terms of both sales and racing successes and discusses changes in the Abarth 124:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-qa-luca-napolitano/
Has it ever been posted here? A video showing Abarth 124 Rally on the stages of 2018 Rally Liepaja:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OprJHs6M4nw
Kris Rosenberger was driving Porsche 997 GT3 in the Rebenland Rallye, the first round of Austrian rally championship. He was 7th overall. A video showing his performance in this rally can be seen below:
https://vimeo.com/324808729
Final results of the 2019 Rebenland Rallye:
1. Hermann Neubauer/Bernhard Ettel (A) Ford Fiesta R5 1:46.05,7
2. Julian Wagner/Anne Katharina Stein (A/D) Skoda Fabia R5 +25,3
3. Günther Knobloch/Jürgen Rausch (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +2.57,0
4. Kristóf Klausz/Botond Csányi (H) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.05,3
5. Johannes Keferböck/Ilka Minor (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +6.05,0
6. Hermann Gassner/Karin Thannhäuser (D) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X R4 +8.12,1
7. Kris Rosenberger/Christina Ettel-Kaiser (A) Porsche 997 GT3 +9.04,2
8. Hermann Gassner Jr/Ursula Mayrhofer (D/A) Toyota GT86 CS-R3 +10.09,7
9. Jan Černý/Petr Černohorský (CZ) Skoda Fabia R5 +11.46,1
10. Robert Zitta/Peter Stemp (A) Skoda Fabia R5 +14.09,7
Still a bit amazed that the Alpine factory or a tuner has not made a RGT car yet.
The name has some heritage to defend!
Defend against what? There is nothing to be won in RGT for GT brands! Their is a shame if they loose with cheap brands like Škoda or Ford. I am amazed that some people still don't get why GT brands aren't eager about being involved in rallying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
That's ridiculous statement. Rolls Royce/Bentley/Bugatti also are not rally cars, but rich people pay loads of money to buy them. Some people enjoy the variety GT class brings in rally. Such statements are useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
When did those race against Škoda or VW and loose?Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Come, on. How can you sale such a result like shown above being a Porsche? Why should you invest any money for such an advertisement?
These brands need to spend money fighting their peers, i.e. Ferrari, Lamborgini, Aston Martin etc. not shopping bags for ordinary people.
Porsche has some (successful) heritage in rallying, even in the toughest one - Safari, the others don't. Call it nostalgia if You wish, people still enjoy seeing this brand on the stages, moreover it has something different to offer from the shopping trolleys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Brands get nothing, yes.
But me as spectator, I wan´t to see more different modern rally cars.
Exactly. Why does rallying have to be boring? All R5 cars look nearly the same, also the latest group N Mitsubishis and Subarus look nearly identical from the distance. Both Porsche and Abarth add some variety to this sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
This is how they buildt their name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyPb_24ThUQ
Not everyone need to win overall, for some it is enough to win in class.
Times changeQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Well, like your video shows, Alpine built their name by winning overall, and becoming world champion. Not by winning a class where they're the only competitors, 15 minutes behind the overall leaders... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Different technologies in time. If FIA makes RGT rules more appealing, there would be more willing to join.
For a long time Skoda has not been runing for WRC overall wins and still they seem quite pleased to continue involved on a WRC secondary category.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Besides privateers teams efforts to keep GT’s in rally, Abarth is also doing a nice work building the 124’s and Porsche is going to provide a huge contribution with the 718 RGT homologation. With a proper regulation maybe some others would also join, but those already in deserves to be praised for adding a greater diversity to rally. Thanks to all of them!
When you talk about Skoda, you must not forget to mention that their motorsport department itself is profitable, thanks to the many privateers running a Skoda. So for Skoda it's not really an investment. If you compare for example Hyundai and Citroën, where the customer department isn't as successful, and the project actually costs money, we see how long the involvement lasted...
You just proved my point. They were involved when they were winning overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
You clearly missed the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
1) Škoda has been directly fighting their market peers.
2) Škoda has been fighting for overall victories in IRC, ERC, national championships, MERC, CODASUR, APRC. It only has not been fighting for overall victories on WRC events but nevertheless it took world championship titles in WRC2 which has a reasonable marketing value.
None of this applies for any GT manufacturer.
Well, the talk was about the brand involvement. Imagine to come to the managing board of Porsche and say that you want a budget to make a project which will bring them nothing but it will be fun. Motorsport is a business activity not a reenactment of historical events. Even those forty years a go it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Sure but it's the brands who need to get something to make it worth their money and there is nothing rallying can currently offer to premium brands.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Nope. I’ve responded to a direct comment mentioning RGT as a lower class with no interest to manus and use Skoda example once they got involved in rally, including in the WRC, throught lower classes, long before producing state of the art rally cars; actually, just like most manus historically did, including Alpine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I imagine this will go into an endless (and possibily boring) ping-pong debate for which I won’t have much time today, so I’ll try to be clear giving my view on RGT.
GT brands didn’t quit rallysport for elitist reasons; they were forced to leave after Gr.B ban, once their cars didn’t cope with Gr.A (or WRC, S2000, R5) rules. Besides, WRC manus weren’t later eager, probably having the 2L Kit-car example in mind, to allow part time GT entries in the series.
Nevertheless, some ASN’s let private drivers and teams to run low tuned GT cars in national series, for the joy of local fans. Surprisingly, or not, this few GT outings become notorious and the videos of modern 911’s rallying got viral, raising the interest of more drivers and fans in other countries. At same point the low tuned national GT cars turned into competitive rally machines and start wining overall national rallys and even championships, which probably wasn’t very appreciated by WRC or S2000 brands.
Soon the FIA started to follow the matter and restrictors were imposed to the private GT cars, making them clearly less competitive. At the same time, the FIA launch RGT class for international use, but its limiting rules immediately make clear it wouldn’t allow GT brands to make especially competitive rally cars.
Anyway, thanks to the passion of private drivers and teams and even a few brands, GT’s are still runing in special stages and making rally fans happy, at least until the FIA decides to ban them again.
Surely it'll bring them some popularity among those who go to watch the rallies. Or You think they're dumb enough not to realize there are class differences? It's the same handicap with the GT Am class in Le Mans races. They have no chance even competing with the GT Pro class, not to mention the LMP classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Oh come, on. You can not be serious thinking that this is worth investment. The marketing value of such existence on stages is similar to the marketing value of the car being parked on the street. It's there and it's nice. But motorsport is about sport success and there is no success to be achieved.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Seriously - the people running the companies are not dumb. They know what brings them something and they know why they have not been involved for decades.
The problem with your theory is that you use completely incomparable cases. Škoda was a cheap brand from the Eastern block which actually was involved on the top level of the sport in its country and in the Eastern block. It competed in the west with what it had and the prime reason why it was successful was that it was involved on the works level in the field where mainly privateers competed against it. But this was pure necessity because the company was working in the pre-planned-economy of the Eastern block and not allowed to produce large engines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
All of that makes its story completely irrelevant to premium brands such as Porsche or Ferrari.
As You said yourself - the environment for GT brand success in rallying is gone. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
As far as I know GT cars managed to win exactly two important national championships - Spanish asphalt one and German (with a competition level nowhere near Spain). Out of hundreds of championship. That small success was achieved thanks to basically no limitation in the rules. That means that in this case the GTs were placed into the privileged role against the others - and that's exactly what I talked about all the time. This is a place where premium brands belong. However even this can work only in very specific environment which is best shown by lack of success of similar cars anywhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
True and again that's what the talk is about all the time. GT can work only if placed in privileged position against the competitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Yes and how is that relevant to the discussion about brand involvement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
If they can build a good reasonable priced car, they could sell al lot of them. Thus making them profitable. Just like you mentioned skoda does. Just like basically every rallycar manufacturer does, with the exception of the wrc cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Do You actually believe you can sell enough of GT rally cars to make profit of it? Good luck then.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
The reason, why R5 or R2 is so popular (or not so popular, compared to gr. N) is that it is an allrounder. Be it ERC, WRC, MERC, APRC or some nationals, on snow, on tarmac, on gravel...it`s created for all of those. If you want to have fun in a fast RWD rallycar, you build yourself a M3 for less...many other suitable donors in addition ofc.
And what is with the new Cayman GT4 project? Porsche will build this car for rally customers, won't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
They admit openly that they need to sell at least 100 of them. We'll see if they succeed or not. Anyway since it's a production car it won't cost them a fortune if they fail so not that big risk for them.