It was worth a try ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
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It was worth a try ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Indy car at watkins glen!
http://www.atdhe.net/
I was always a big proponent of Kimi I made the most profound post about him this site has ever had! Predicting his championship win!
And while I was gone I was on a far superior forum that only problem was lack of participation in numbers. In fact there is a link on this forum right now from a contributor that is an engineer for an F1 team. I've returned empowered. I've got your fight hangin' bro'
Here is a nickles worth of free advice "Don't look back"
Have a happy 4th ;)
:wave: :talk:
henners88 I just realized that your last post on this page was not directed at me. Ignore my previous post, you to Ioan Sooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrry! :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Felipe Massa missed out on the WDC in 2008 by a single point and this fighting the might of Mclaren and Lewis Hamilton the first driver in f1 history to have been trained for almost TEN years for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
In 2008, Massa was the best driver in F1 and in 2009 he outdrove Raikkonen until his accident.
Massa is still there and is being essentially shafted by Ferrari in much the same way that Rosberg is now by Mercedes.
Pity that.
It demonstrates the weakness of Ferrari and Mercedes versus the management strength of Frank Williams and Patrick head. Understand this and you understand problems that both the teams have.
And how is Felipe being held back or “shafted”?Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Plus you just repeated a reply I made and twisted it to fit your oversimplified agenda!
The season is at the 1/2 way point.Quote:
I gave Kimi plenty of love when he was with the Scuderia. Now he is history he was beaten by Felipe
in 2008, and was behind (slightly) Massa in 2009 before his injury. Kimi really did yeoman’s duty after that event, but he didn’t excel in that car at the time Massa and he drove it.
I could argue the same thing about "The Boss",
groomed for the team for more years then Felipe, only to have the reigning WDC brought on board. I see no distinction. What seems to have gone over your head is that these guys are all warriors, and like "The Boss" FM has just gotten on with it! Everything else is projection!
Here is my view or projection;
Bunsen, and FM are behind guys who have gotten where they are right now on merit!
I know you gave up on your man Jense already! Personally I think Stefano D and the technical people at Ferrari have done well and it's too early for me to draw such conclusions! Your opinions seem to change daily :p :
You are however certainly entitled to them. I think I agree with most people That Luca di is a pin head. But they have won in the past in spite of him.
And obviously Ross, Jean, and Rory are not setting the world afire at their new venues! :dozey:
Upon consideration, your message above does not deserve a reply because it is sub-par.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Grazie, but I was unaware that you operated a time-served seniority system in this forum which over-ruled others opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Are you a moderator? Your name is not on the list, that is all.
Wow, let's change the title of this forum to "Ferrari Fans bashing Ferrari Fans" Forum. Who needs McLaren fans bashing Ferrari when Ferrari fans are doing a fine job on our own?
Since you've taken the role of a certain Imola corner as the official Kimi-basher here, I've got a question for you: What has Alonso done so far at Ferrari that justifies the huge amounts of money they are paying Kimi for not to race? How has Ferrari improved as a team compared to 2009? Waiving hands about more? Stupid comments after races when a driver cannot control his temperament?Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
I've stated it many times over here but Kimi's "failure" at Ferrari was a cultural thing, it was not about racing a Formula One car.
Scusi, but this is just totally incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
If you are going to talk about the history of the Scuderia, perhaps you should lecture people less on their knowledge until yours is complete?
The F92 and F93s were terrible cars, barely capable of podiums. The F60 was a far better car than those.
Beating his team-mate, for a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
That alone was worth parking your countryman. He hadn't done so for 2 years.
It was also better for Ferrari to have a driver who will bring focus to the team from the cockpit, instead of somebody who did not and never would.
That was worth paying an extra $18million for.
With Kimi in the cockpit, the Scuderia had no direction on the race track. We have that now.
What are you talking about?
I apologise for not reading as carefully as I should.
But still the F60 was not the worst car, the F2005 was worse, it just had a better driver in it.
As a fan of neither team, I think a Ferrari civil war is actually VERY Ferrari. It was only the 2000 - 2004 that Ferrari anything was different that way :vader:Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcot
But the results are not better, that's the bottom line. So they are paying one guy 18 millions not to race and the new guy is doing a similar job.... He's outqualified Massa more often than not but so did Räikkönen in 2007 (in his first year) and that was before Massa was almost killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
I haven't seen that many non-native English speakers use expressions like "barren". :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Theres a need for Ferrari to grab lots of points this race at Silverstone.
I´m not so sure they can afford to slip further back.
Probably your memory is a little hazy, let me refresh it. The Mclaren wasn't on par Renault in the first three races, where Alonso built his lead. Kimi's first pole position that year was San Marino, he was leading comfortably until his "car" had driveshaft problems and retired. From then on, the Mclaren failed SIX times, either in qualifying or in race, and he had to do those recovery drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
I don't know why the F1 fans don't understand that if Kimi was a car wrecker, how did he magically ironed that part out in 2007? What a load of bull! Would it be really that hard to admit that for the first time he had a reliable car, and hence delivered a championship?
Really? Wasn't Massa behind both the Mclaren drivers in the championship, and wasn't he already kicking Schumacher's behind in 2006, albeit inconsistently? Oh wait, but yeah, I guess I'm wrong, he would have never been allowed to be more than a lapdog as long as Schumacher was around. So, yeah, I take my words back. Ferrari wouldn't have won the 2007 championship if not for Kimi. Alonso or Lewis would have taken it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
McLaren wouldn'tve won constructors because they cheated, and there's no guarantee that their drivers would've outscored Massa if they didn't cheat.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Adios fella's,
When I came back to this forum and thought I would try to do some research, dig up IMG's of Ferrari's F10B upgrades, and do my level best to do the legwork of compiling it, and presenting it. Only to find that anti Ferrari members only use this as a platform to deride the team from the top down. Then I found myself getting sucked into the,” I can out insult you game”. I think I will just let this thread go the same way every other thread does. Be closed by the Mod's or fade away.
This too shall pass :wave:
I wasn't talking about the constructors championship, but the drivers championship, which I believe Ferrari wouldn't have won without Kimi.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Depends on who would have been instead of him in the car. It's worth remembering that Kimi was struggling quite notably in the first half of 2007 and was as many as 26 points off the lead at one point, so overall his season wasn't that impressive even if the second half of the season was. I personally think that the best performer of 2007 was - as incredible as it may sound - Heidfeld.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Like Homer would put it: you´ve tried your best and failed miserably. Lesson is never try :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Arguably the Mclaren was the best car in 2007, at least on the majority of the circuits, and to win the championship against them is a pretty good feat in itself, and that too in his first year in a new car going against a credible teammate who had been in the team for the previous two years, defeating even Schumacher on various occassions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
At the end of the year, he had 6 victories with both Fernando and Lewis at 4 apiece. Add to that, Kimi had two mechanical failures throwing away points, compared to no mechanical failures for both Mclarens, only mistakes, Lewis in China and Alonso in Japan.
So, IMO in 2007 his performance was a hell of a lot better than what a lot of people give him credit for, especially some races where he won because of sheer speed, like Silverstone where he beat both Mclarens during pitstops due to incredible lap times. Sure, his performance waned in the coming years, but 2007 showed what he can do when his head is screwed on right.
For Kimi, 2007 was excellent, I do not disagree. But it was because his "performance waned" and he didn't always have his "head screwed on right" that he was no loss to the Scuderia at the end of 2009.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
A top driver must deliver 100% all the time, not only when everything is good.
How do you measure that? When everything is not right, let's say car is not perfect, how do one measure if a driver is delivering 100% or not? Are we still expecting a driver to be able to win or is a top 8 result ok? Where do we set the limits for 100% delivery?Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
Lick yer finger then stick it in the air - very accurate apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Attitude and desire.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Results can come and go, but the passion must not.
So if Alonso tosses the car into the wall at Monaco yet fails to bring home a title it's ok if he remains passionate? I don't even think Enzo would agree that performance should take a back seat to passion.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
Kimi and Ferrari have one thing in common that Alonso and Ferrari do not. And that is a WDC.
I'm surprised that so called tifosi are using this thread to bash Kimi, or any driver, especially if they bring home a title for Ferrari. I've openly stated that I can only consider myself borderline tifosi, and I really don't think that greatly of Alonso, but I'd still like to see either him or Felipe come back strong and bring the WDC to Ferrari.
Someone please help as my memory isn't so good.... but when was the last year the WDC was won by a Ferrari driver, and what was his name?
You need to know more about Enzo Ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Had Kimi won a WDC in a Ferrari by the halfway point of a season?Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
The answer is "No".
Only Schumacher achieved that.
Kimi came into a team that knew how to win, something that Fernando has not been so lucky to do. Kimi was lucky his predecessor left him the legacy of a championship-capable seat. Fernando has received no such charity.
lol, priceless analysis here
and you know him personally right? you know his thinking, his knowledge his passions,Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
ridiculous
Is that your standard for being a Ferrari driver?Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
and exactly how many times did MSC achieve that?
I guess the other 5 championships were below your standards then and were not worthy of being a "true" ferrari driver :down:
what are you talking about, Kimi came from Mclaren a team that knew how to win pretty darn well, with drivers like prost, senna, lauda, Hakkinen, all driving for them. Meanwhile alonso came from a team that knew how to win as well, after winning 2 championships with them and the same team that gave MSC his first 2 WDC's. But I guess a little thing like history or actually knowing the facts gets in the way of your red mist.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
Btw in 2005 & 2006 prior to Kimi joining them, Ferrari were according to your reasoning, losers.
So kimi actually came to the team and made them winners (by your logic)
Enzo Ferrari was along those lines - but you also have to remember he only hired good drivers, so in addition to crashing they would also win.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I realize this is not the history section so - the best illustration of his attitude to drivers that people here might be able to relate to is how he was with Gilles.
Between Raikkonen and Alonso - he would go for Alonso everytime I think, and would have tried Raikonnen but then fired him well before Luca pushed him out.
The secret to being a Ferrari driver was knowing when to leave. You do not just driver for a team there, you are co-opted to drive for a nation.
Absolutely :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
At Mclaren drivers can be like dead fishes.
I see that everyone here is anything at their disposal. History, geography, nationa;lities, etc.
I had not idea that F1 required so much knowledge. For the Mc:aren fans you are buring tyhe Ferrari team way too early. And the fact that you mightr be haed of the red cars does not mean you are going to finish in fornt of the RB team. So, relax. And save your ammunition for later. Who knows, somebody might just lose by.......ONE point again :) )))
That's a good one - championship capable seat my @r5e.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
Shoe couldn't win since the dominance of 04. So it took a change of pilot in 07 to bring the championship.
Twit.
As posted in another thread...quit personal comments/insults right now or you'be sent on vacation for a long time ! And yes I am sick and tired of asking this all the time :mad:
Perhaps you can give examples of the Enzo Ferrari that didn't take the attitude of win at all costs. I certainly haven't seen reference to them. He even went so far as to have race schedules changed to retain the title the Shelby Daytonas were about to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
In what season had Schumacher won the title half way through the season? Unless you are looking at date lines rather than half the races, I'm not seeing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by pallone col bracciale
Granted that Alonso came into a seat not as capable, as the Brawn and Red Bull cars made up and surpassed the Ferrari in performance in 2009. But regardless of that, I see no reason to degrade Kimi for performing very well and winning a WDC in a car that was among the best at the time.
As for 2008 Kimi finished just one position behind his team mate Felipe in the WDC standings, so it's not as if he didn't perform at all.
Exactly right. Winning at all costs, yes, that was Enzo. Everytime his cars raced.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Which was what I was saying. Which is why the Raikkonen of 2008 and 2009 would not have pleased the great man. 2007, nobody was being critical....but since then, Kimi did not show the hunger. A Ferrari driver must display passion, attitude and desire.
But, even though I expect you will not agree, I thank you for being polite and discussing this in a sensible manner.
Despite Ferrari having basically the car-driver combo to beat in '75-'77, Enzo and Niki Lauda fell out in 1977. So that's what I would call one example. Another former WDC, who suddenly left Ferrari, was Surtees in 1966.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter