Your opinion on 'Drag Reduction System'

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Wouldn't you MUCH prefer it to be more or less impossible for a driver to get by and to almost need to risk an accident each overtake? That's muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better!

I'm being sarcastic btw.

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Not only sarcastic....

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Originally Posted by ioan

Not only sarcastic....

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Do you honestly prefer what we had before where a much better driver could be held behind by a far slower driver purely because of the way the aero works?

It reminds me a bit of the Hanford device they used in CART on the super speedways for a few years. The device was used to create drag to slow the cars but it also created a huge hole in the air for the following car and it wasn't long before a similarly fast car would be able to draft by it. "Draft" doesn't really describe the huge slipstream effect it had. The referred to it as slingshot drafting as the tailing car appeared to have a JATO attached to it as it blew by the leading car. All cars had it and there was no switch to turn it on or off. It made the race a pretty exciting affair as lead changes took place almost every lap it seems. But, it was kind of a guilty pleasure for me. It was kind of like watching a high scoring hockey game with no goalie in the net. The team who had the puck last was likely to be the team that won. Sure the drivers had to be fast but the outcome was almost like something they had little control over.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Do you honestly prefer what we had before where a much better driver could be held behind by a far slower driver purely because of the way the aero works?

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That never happened. A driver was kept behind because the slower drive in front had good defending skills or the one behind had less overtaking skills then what was needed, it was not only up to aero, and many drivers demonstrated that it is possible to overtake if you do it right.

Just think about Webber and Heidfeld against Alonso back in Monaco (2005?) where Webber was tooling around behind Alonso's Renault for endless laps, than Heidfeld in the very same car overtook Alonso at the 2nd attempt. Driver skill came into play there and that is what I want to see in racing.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That never happened. A driver was kept behind because the slower drive in front had good defending skills or the one behind had less overtaking skills then what was needed, it was not only up to aero, and many drivers demonstrated that it is possible to overtake if you do it right.

Just think about Webber and Heidfeld against Alonso back in Monaco (2005?) where Webber was tooling around behind Alonso's Renault for endless laps, than Heidfeld in the very same car overtook Alonso at the 2nd attempt. Driver skill came into play there and that is what I want to see in racing.

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I think what we want to see is a middle ground. A little bit of DRS to purely overcome the whole turbulence issue would be nice, I don't want DRS doing 100% of the work for the driver :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You're new to this F1 thing aren't you? Sometimes when a faster driver pits, he sometimes comes out on the track behind a slower driver. Hope that's not too complicated for you!

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I've been a spectator in the crowd to watch Prost, Senna, Mansell etc. so don't see myself as "New to this F1 thing...".

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Why should a faster driver be able to get past a slower driver? Ummmm, well.... are you really asking this question?

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Yep, that's exactly the question I'm asking.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Whilst in Turkey it was too easy for faster drivers to get past, in the past you had to be stupidly quicker than the driver in front to get past and even then it was difficult. Some of the people on here seem to want to go back to the days where you had an overtake or two to talk about per half a season. That was boring, what we need is a happy medium. The FIA did something to make overtaking easier (which pretty much everyone asked for) and people are whinging about it not being perfect after a few races. Give it time and F1 will be better for it.

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It was too easy for faster drivers in Turkey because they got the DRS zone wrong. I would argue that they will get it wrong more often than right unless they dynamically adjust it throughout the race. Changing track conditions mean that the effectiveness of the DRS may always be changing. We haven't had a really wet race yet and the DRS could be a whole new animal during a race that starts wet and ends dry. In fact they may have been expecting rain in Turkey and that was why the DRS zone was so early.

As to "stupidly quicker" in the past I don't believe that has ever been the case in any motorsport. The "problem", if there is one, is explosive acceleration, traction and driver reflexes. The "solution" may be found in tools to address those three. The DRS addresses none of them as it makes cars "stupidly quicker" and that is why it is wrong.

Traction control, active suspension or myriad other mystery tricks coupled with the "one second" rule could overcome the acceleration and traction issue and driver skill will finish the job. At least this approach allows the lead driver some hope of defending the track position he has earned. As you say, it was too easy in Turkey...

^^^

So just to clarify, you are against DRS, but not some other form of 'artificial' engineering solution to permit the following vehicle an opportunity to pass?

(not being sarcastic - truly interested).

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Originally Posted by Sonic

^^^

So just to clarify, you are against DRS, but not some other form of 'artificial' engineering solution to permit the following vehicle an opportunity to pass?

(not being sarcastic - truly interested).

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Don't know about Whyzars standing on this, but I want to see a move away from modern F1 cars aero reliance to more emphasis on mechanical grip, which will automatically make it easier to pass. That's how it used to be, until Williams started with their wind tunnel testing and car designs that changed F1 from mechanical grip to aero reliance.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

I've been a spectator in the crowd to watch Prost, Senna, Mansell etc. so don't see myself as "New to this F1 thing...".





Yep, that's exactly the question I'm asking.




It was too easy for faster drivers in Turkey because they got the DRS zone wrong. I would argue that they will get it wrong more often than right unless they dynamically adjust it throughout the race. Changing track conditions mean that the effectiveness of the DRS may always be changing. We haven't had a really wet race yet and the DRS could be a whole new animal during a race that starts wet and ends dry. In fact they may have been expecting rain in Turkey and that was why the DRS zone was so early.

As to "stupidly quicker" in the past I don't believe that has ever been the case in any motorsport. The "problem", if there is one, is explosive acceleration, traction and driver reflexes. The "solution" may be found in tools to address those three. The DRS addresses none of them as it makes cars "stupidly quicker" and that is why it is wrong.

Traction control, active suspension or myriad other mystery tricks coupled with the "one second" rule could overcome the acceleration and traction issue and driver skill will finish the job. At least this approach allows the lead driver some hope of defending the track position he has earned. As you say, it was too easy in Turkey...

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Thanks for that quite frankly nonsensical post. So basically it seems like DRS did sleep with your wife/girlfriend :mark:

You have fail dismally to actually prove that there is something inherently wrong with DRS, merely the way it was executed in Turkey.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Don't know about Whyzars standing on this, but I want to see a move away from modern F1 cars aero reliance to more emphasis on mechanical grip, which will automatically make it easier to pass. That's how it used to be, until Williams started with their wind tunnel testing and car designs that changed F1 from mechanical grip to aero reliance.

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I think that's what everyone wants. I don't think that having aero is inherently good in terms of spectacle and I think if the cars can be kept rougly as fast (and safe) without it then all the better. Wider tyrs and active suspension would make for much racier cars IMHO. I still think DRS is a step in the right direction if aero is going to be kept, it just needs some tweaking.