Wikileaks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

No that the leaks exist at all , was the point...

---

Quote:

---

WikiLeaks is part of the phenomenon of the online, empowered citizen ... these are facts that aren't going to go away. Government and authorities need to wise up to that."

---

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ers-government

The over-reaction to "a zit on a gnats ass" among some politicians - that Julian Assange & Wikileaks are terrorists, traitors, spies, and worse - is a knee-jerk reaction to something they didn't and couldn't control, and many would argue shouldn't control.

Governments shouldn't control anything. They should do what the people that voted them into power want them to do, which is to serve the people and the best interests of the counrtry as a whole. Unfortunately, governments do their own thing and do as little as possible to keep people happy to secure their votes at the next lot of polls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

As I said earlier, one conservative pundit, said on a talk-show, in effect, Assange is a zit on a gnats ass, the fact that leaks EXIST, is what everyone should be focusing on.

---

And because I’m a conservative I am suppose to agree with him? Hardly. I belong to no group, have no alliances, and I most certainly don’t trust mankind - regardless of what shape or form of altruistic agendas that one faction, or another, might present.

People here need to be focused on the activities of the govt., (with OUR $$$ ) and the corporations that control it. The same concept that many people had during Viet Nam. Good grief! Are we, as a country, that short-sited?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Simple answer: In America most will do anything for money. Just a question of how much it takes to overcome morals and honesty and everything else.

---

You know as well as I do that people generally don’t open the aperture wide enough to register the entirety of an issue. Especially us Americans with our amenities. I was hoping to see that other Americans would have been a bit more focus on both parties, not just Assange.

I actually thought we were better than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

The over-reaction to "a zit on a gnats ass" among some politicians - that Julian Assange & Wikileaks are terrorists, traitors, spies, and worse - is a knee-jerk reaction to something they didn't and couldn't control, and many would argue shouldn't control.

---

That’s what worries me, is both liberals and conservatives over here have been duped to thinking that Wikileaks is the problem, without even considering the government’s role in the world… all this while we’re going bankrupt, and people will still allow themselves to be led to the slaughterhouse of propaganda.

This clearly shows how vulnerable we are to practices of conditioning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AAReagles

And because I’m a conservative I am suppose to agree with him? Hardly. I belong to no group, have no alliances, and I most certainly don’t trust mankind - regardless of what shape or form of altruistic agendas that one faction, or another, might present.

People here need to be focused on the activities of the govt., (with OUR $$$ ) and the corporations that control it. The same concept that many people had during Viet Nam. Good grief! Are we, as a country, that short-sited?

---

I am not that paranoid, and beyond armed revolt, all the finger pointing in the world does no good.
Political parties or at least- the talking heads- should make a huge point that those in government should be flushing out those embedded within the belt-way that are a cancer rotting the country from within.

Cripes, now we have the pathetic crying man in charge of the Congress.

All the brough-ha-ha about ethnic profiling is just a scam to prevent using something that will expose them as the corrupt forces they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Cripes, now we have the pathetic crying man in charge of the Congress.

---

Do you believe that all men who cry are pathetic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Do you believe that all men who cry are pathetic?

---

No just this sobbing twit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skc

I gave a prime example earlier in the thread.

If you don't accept "Collatoral Murder" and the fact that the only person to ever be punished was the person that released it to Wikileaks as being hugely embarrassing to the US administration, then I am at a loss for words.

---

In reality, you'd be more at a loss for the factual information. The unedited version of the footage, along with all the other information and investigations was made public. Though no doubt the actions of some of the people were not warranted, that is easy for us to judge sitting at a computer and not having scumbags fire RPGs at us.

But if you look at the unedited versions and other information, it's clear that lack of press identification, identified weapons in an unauthorized area, and their actions in event were the primary causes of those men losing their lives., not to mention the suffering inflicted on the children involved.

Assange also claimed that the military tried to keep the children from getting medical help, but it is documented that they were immediately taken to a forward operating base for emergency medical treatment.


If things such as this are taken as the comdemning information being leaked, then I just hope the public actually seeks the reality of thing they leak rather than the edited Clif Notes versions with lies attached.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12141530
"If the Iranian government was to attempt to coercively obtain this information from journalists and activists of foreign nations, human rights groups around the world would speak out,"
Freedom of press?
I guess it must somehow make more sense to harass icelandic MPs than to spend the energy on going after the real baddies :dozey:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by airshifter

In reality, you'd be more at a loss for the factual information. The unedited version of the footage, along with all the other information and investigations was made public. Though no doubt the actions of some of the people were not warranted, that is easy for us to judge sitting at a computer and not having scumbags fire RPGs at us.

---

I have seen the unedited version and it is shocking. Not just this but also the destruction of the building after this event with complete disregard of civillian casulaties.

Throuout all of this, there was never a shot fired by these men and the RPG that was identified was actually a long lense camera which shortly before the incident took a picture of a US Humme less than 100 yards away. There was no suggestion that these people had fired although there were some AK-47's held unfired by the men which I think is quite legal in Iraq.

There had been some insurgent activity in the general area from a rooftop based group which is what the copters were supposed to be looking for but this was obviously not the group.

Quote:

---

But if you look at the unedited versions and other information, it's clear that lack of press identification, identified weapons in an unauthorized area, and their actions in event were the primary causes of those men losing their lives., not to mention the suffering inflicted on the children involved.

---

Lack of press indentification????? The chopper couldn't differentiate between a RPG and a long lense camera, let alone a press pass. What were the reporters to do? Paint their asses red and flash them at the pilots to have a pot-shot at?

The area you mention is a residential place that people live in. Not some killing field and the suffering inflicted on those innocent children was caused by those American pilots firing on a man that had stopped to help the wounded.

Your attitude to those children strangly reflects the pilots who's comments were that it was the drivers fault for being there and not their fault for shooting them.

Quote:

---

Assange also claimed that the military tried to keep the children from getting medical help, but it is documented that they were immediately taken to a forward operating base for emergency medical treatment.

---

No, the order was given to evacuate the children to the US base at Rustamiyah but later this was countermanded and they were handed over to the Iraqi police to take to hospital.

Quote:

---

If things such as this are taken as the comdemning information being leaked, then I just hope the public actually seeks the reality of thing they leak rather than the edited Clif Notes versions with lies attached.

---

FFS. You have journalists being murdered and blame them for not identifying themselves to a Helicopter despite them holding cameras and not RPG's. You have an unarmed father being murdered for daring to offer assistance. You have children being wounded and their injuries being blamed on their murdered father for being in an area the US decided to turn into a battle zone. You have dead bodied being run over and laughed about. You have helicopter pilots being allowed to fire missiles at buildings when it has been identified that civilians were in the firing line.

You have a gung-ho approach with no respect or regard for people that the US obviously regard as not worthy of thought or feeling. It's almost as if the US view the Iraq people as lesser species, worthy of contempt.

Condemning? I think it's utterly shamefull and a disgrace that justifies how the US has descended from being the Land of the Free and a beacon for free speech and expression to being regarded as the warmongers of the world and oppressors of justice.

Shame on you for perpetuating this view with defence of the indefensible :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Do you believe that all men who cry are pathetic?

---

yes