WRC main class in 2025

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

You cant expect Ford to accept ditching the hybrid early.

Ford are killing all their ICE road cars fast and going for EV only. Plus they are the only ones with Eco-Boost HYBRID plastered on their WRC Rally1 car.

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I'd just like to see something official, I can't see any evidence of Ford the consumer car maker/seller giving much of a shiny shit what powers a Rally1, or even WRC in general. There's nothing except the pressers M-Sport kick out. Back to the point of my question - they certainly are not relating WRC technology to road car technology.

M-Sport are good customers of Ford through Rally2-5, would they jeopardise that loyalty for the next two seasons? Nah.

I can understand M-Sport not wanting to rid hybrid and Ford backing that positioning if pressed, but that's for different reasons.

TBH it's pretty amazing that Ford is even still supporting a WRC Team at all given how they've not made a new RS road car since the Mk3 Focus in 2016.

And even with that car it wasnt used to promote WRC, or vice versa, as the Fiesta was the rally car used.

This was the last Ford rally-reference advert I remember...

https://www.focusstoc.com/attachment...45-jpg.874225/

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

WRX is not a manufacturer series, WRC is not a privateer/teams series, they shouldn't be compared. Privateers and teams aren't travelling the globe as WRX shows, so why suggest privateers are the answer for WRC? Without manufacturer investment in WRC, the promoter has to step in and these working group decisions show they still choose a Rally1 top tier with the fewer cars.

WRC2 already exists and Rally2 is very popular to the point of oversubscription on European events, but it cannot sustain the series itself, nor multiple events for much of the participants. Why do people expect making either it or something indistinguishable from it as the 'main class' will a) attract privateers to compete globally full time when they weren't already, and b) save the series?

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fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc. to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?
my comparision with wrx is because they went full evs. there where only 7-8 cars. people DONT WANT TO WATCH a championhsip with 7 cars, so they start complaining, then they stop paying for the rallytv app, then they stop watching, then one event promoter stop paying to host the round because "no one is coming or watching", then its a snowball.
wrx got to this point where most of the event/track promoters gave up.
wrc is on the "fans stop paying for the rallytv app".
its a really quick snowball.
wtcc died but tcr is doing really well. rallycross is allowing ice cars again so theres good expectations again, cuz more privateers may be able to compete (unless they all gave up for good, because - as i said - it is a quick snowball)
wrc is not doing well. they cannot keep rally1 hybrid cars because manufacturers WANT TO LOOK MORE CLEAN on their P.R. its not even their own hybrid unit, its all a spec thing. this is all a joke

edit: im not angry, sorry if sounded like that. im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc. they want to "look green" instead of working to improve the sport. fine, its not their job to improve a sport, but then its the sport's job to "not let manufacturers' egos' ruin the championship". 8 cars is bad and the hybrid unit is SPEC, so theres no developmente or anything. its just a sticker for them to post on instagram.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc.

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I know. This form of rallying is waaay passed it's heyday for manufactures but the ordinary human loves it still, the promoter is still in business making money - for the non-profit FIA lol. It's a privateer sport but a manufacturer series. I'm probably the only person on this forum who would entertain the notion that a WRC backed by manufacturers could look radically different in future and that speed might not be the sole factor, while speed rallying continues privately - ERC/regions could be the highest form. It's unlikely...

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Originally Posted by saco0o

to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?

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It's healthier than death. The promoter has been backing entries since it was installed 15 years ago and it's blurred how much they put in and how much the 3rd/4th manus do. There's always been a middle ground and deals struck. I know I said without manufacturers the series dies, but also without the promoter support the series would have probably died in appeal. That support was propelled chiefly by the other manus and sponsors. With zero manus though it could go full FIA spec car, unbadged if they had decent sponsors, as radically odd as WRC would then be. But it would probably die like WRX you describe IMO, subpar to ERC.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

im not angry, sorry if sounded like that.

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No worries, it's a concern that gave 105 pages in this thread and many more. Fascinates me. Perhaps WRC dies, perhaps just the appeal dies... I'm not sure there's an easy answer for us to say they should have done this or that. Likelihood is, deals will be struck and things don't look too different to us the next few years, only to the moneymen at the non-profit.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc. to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?
my comparision with wrx is because they went full evs. there where only 7-8 cars. people DONT WANT TO WATCH a championhsip with 7 cars, so they start complaining, then they stop paying for the rallytv app, then they stop watching, then one event promoter stop paying to host the round because "no one is coming or watching", then its a snowball.
wrx got to this point where most of the event/track promoters gave up.
wrc is on the "fans stop paying for the rallytv app".
its a really quick snowball.
wtcc died but tcr is doing really well. rallycross is allowing ice cars again so theres good expectations again, cuz more privateers may be able to compete (unless they all gave up for good, because - as i said - it is a quick snowball)
wrc is not doing well. they cannot keep rally1 hybrid cars because manufacturers WANT TO LOOK MORE CLEAN on their P.R. its not even their own hybrid unit, its all a spec thing. this is all a joke

edit: im not angry, sorry if sounded like that. im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc. they want to "look green" instead of working to improve the sport. fine, its not their job to improve a sport, but then its the sport's job to "not let manufacturers' egos' ruin the championship". 8 cars is bad and the hybrid unit is SPEC, so theres no developmente or anything. its just a sticker for them to post on instagram.

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You're a 100% right. FIA should rattle the manufacturer's cage. Take the compromise or go. Rally 1s are dead in the water. If manufacturers don't agree, make Rally 2s as they are now the top category for 3 years. Work a sustainable package (max $250k cost) for 2028 onwards.

hmmmmm bad news
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX
we know wrc wanta to have an electric class as soon as possible and "the future is electric" bla bla bla. and even being super open minded about that (im all for all eva and hybrids for public transportation and autonomous shared vans-ride) i still think electric racing cars will never excite people. i feel like the motocross scene is reeeaally close from being overloaded with e-bikes in the next 2 years, but im not so sure they will keep the audience this time.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc.

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Manufacturers always have a big ego for sure, look at Huyndai's massive service park which is totally irrelvant to rallying in general and to the state where it is in particular.
But don't you think they are also happy with only 8 cars running in the top category ? Combined to super-rally, tis is a guaranteed result at every event. Cyril's comments made it very clear ("« Nous ne pouvons pas nous permettre de rester dans un sport où nous serions des faire-valoir » = We cannot stay in a sport where we would be stooges). This is clearly fear of looking red-faced on monday morning ...
The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

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Originally Posted by djip

Manufacturers always have a big ego for sure, look at Huyndai's massive service park which is totally irrelvant to rallying in general and to the state where it is in particular.
But don't you think they are also happy with only 8 cars running in the top category ? Combined to super-rally, tis is a guaranteed result at every event. Cyril's comments made it very clear ("« Nous ne pouvons pas nous permettre de rester dans un sport où nous serions des faire-valoir » = We cannot stay in a sport where we would be stooges). This is clearly fear of looking red-faced on monday morning ...
The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

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If we lose Hyundai but get Lancia & Skoda, it’s something I think we can live with but if we just lose Hyundai….the FIA has got to find a balance.

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Originally Posted by macebig

You're a 100% right. FIA should rattle the manufacturer's cage. Take the compromise or go. Rally 1s are dead in the water. If manufacturers don't agree, make Rally 2s as they are now the top category for 3 years. Work a sustainable package (max $250k cost) for 2028 onwards.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by djip

The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

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:rolleyes:

damn. i read on facebook: ''rally fans are still discussing this? fia has decided already. its rally1 without the hybrids, less aero AND rally2+ with the kit. its decided. they are just negotiating if the kits can be build independetly or if its going to be spec"
i mean, if you think, they even posted on instagram the decisions 2 months ago or so, so arent we beating a dead horse? haha this post got me wondering haha
(oh, and the ev class in case skoda wants to run this new thing
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX and maybe hyundai too, since they are shifting to evs only, right?)

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...ure-wrc-rules/

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Originally Posted by saco0o

damn. i read on facebook: ''rally fans are still discussing this? fia has decided already. its rally1 without the hybrids, less aero AND rally2+ with the kit. its decided. they are just negotiating if the kits can be build independetly or if its going to be spec"
i mean, if you think, they even posted on instagram the decisions 2 months ago or so, so arent we beating a dead horse? haha this post got me wondering haha
(oh, and the ev class in case skoda wants to run this new thing
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX and maybe hyundai too, since they are shifting to evs only, right?)

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Nice example of how random social media posts drive an opinion while being completely wrong. The decision is about to be taken on June 11th at the next WMSC meeting. Nothing has been decided yet.

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Originally Posted by djip

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...ure-wrc-rules/

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How?

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

How?

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correct me if im wrong, but it seems like hes saying they are working with rally1 hybrid cars and if that changes, they are out.

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and i understand and agree with Mirek's point regarding random msgs on social media that i just mentioned, but cyril saying this now sounded (in my head) just like what that guy said. fia made their decision and hyundai is battling against it since that day. toyota is even testing rally1-, Latvala wants the removal of the hybrid, and msport/promoter are about to already run a "rally1-" car. so idk, maybe the decision is made for good? why would cyril be saying stuff like that? also tierry, evans, tanak have been souding "angry"(?) when dirtfish asks about that. idk, maybe its just inside my head

To me it sounds as if Hyundai has already made the decision and if next year’s cars are anything different to what we’ve had since 2022 they are out, end of story.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

correct me if im wrong, but it seems like hes saying they are working with rally1 hybrid cars and if that changes, they are out.

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and i understand and agree with Mirek's point regarding random msgs on social media that i just mentioned, but cyril saying this now sounded (in my head) just like what that guy said. fia made their decision and hyundai is battling against it since that day. toyota is even testing rally1-, Latvala wants the removal of the hybrid, and msport/promoter are about to already run a "rally1-" car. so idk, maybe the decision is made for good? why would cyril be saying stuff like that? also tierry, evans, tanak have been souding "angry"(?) when dirtfish asks about that. idk, maybe its just inside my head

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Originally Posted by Eli

To me it sounds as if Hyundai has already made the decision and if next year’s cars are anything different to what we’ve had since 2022 they are out, end of story.

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I think everything is decided too but these details have to stay private. Maybe Hyundai are playing a pr game, making it look like FIA are giving them reason to quit when the FIA aren't going to speak truths, but that's not blackmail. There's nothing Hyundai want FIA to do.

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Originally Posted by djip

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...ure-wrc-rules/

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No, it just shows decision has come from higher up to pull the plug if this scenario plays out.

Repeated humiliations by their regional arch-rival Toyota wont be going down well at Hyundai HQ.

They certainly wont be throwing any more good money after bad if the Regs are changed. They can see Toyota would have a Rally1 Minus car ready if necessary and Hyundai would be in for another beating.

Hyundai will have the opportunity to deliver 50% of its new-for-2025 car after a deal was struck with rival manufacturers allowing the Korean manufacturer to use two years’ worth of homologation jokers next season.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...tion-for-2025/

It sounds like they were threatening to quit WRC if they didnt get this deal. But strange to announce it when the Regs for 2025 still aren't decided.

Would they have needed permission to build the 100% new car?

Hyundai behaving like spoilt children once again (see WTCR Nurburgring 2020...) and getting away with it... Disappointing...

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Hyundai will have the opportunity to deliver 50% of its new-for-2025 car after a deal was struck with rival manufacturers allowing the Korean manufacturer to use two years’ worth of homologation jokers next season.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyund...tion-for-2025/

It sounds like they were threatening to quit WRC if they didnt get this deal. But strange to announce it when the Regs for 2025 still aren't decided.

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It doesn’t sound like that but Rich literally confirms it

“I totally understand that perspective, but at the same time if we actively push back on everything and force a manufacturer to leave [WRC] because they don’t feel like they’ve got a chance, then what’s better?

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Would they have needed permission to build the 100% new car?

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Not if the Regs didnt change, they'd just need to get it homologated under the existing Regs.

Mind games keep going..

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ABITEBOUL: We won't spend ONE euro testing a Rally1 alternative

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https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abite...y1-alternative

And if it happens, 2022 repeats and they start the season with a flinstones car once again :D

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Mind games keep going..



https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abite...y1-alternative

And if it happens, 2022 repeats and they start the season with a flinstones car once again :D

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I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

It really is a stupid strategy of the FIA to spend more money on these cars when it's clear it won't result in any more manufacturers, and will likely mean less cars because they'll have wasted money redeveloping current cars.

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

.

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Plus the possible WDC Neuville will retire.

But if they do stay, I'll be pretty used to it as I've been driving it in DR 2.0 ! ;)

https://i.imgur.com/JlWpNtM.jpg

All 3 manufacturers are pushing for things to remain until the end of the 26. Not even the goons running the WRC will be stupid enough to push them out by forcing new regs for 25

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Not if the Regs didnt change, they'd just need to get it homologated under the existing Regs.

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Yes makes sense. Just the regs are changing but technically no new cars confused me.

At the same time, I find Cyril's attitude pretty childish ... In no sport are the players making the rules.

I understand that Huyndai may retire if changes are called for. However if this is really in the balance, then it is only a matter of time before they call it a day. Given all the critics, I would very much doubt they would stick around when the new regs kick in ...

Long story short, if I would be the FIA i would not listen to such bully arguments and stick to what I believe is best for the sport (whatever it is). My five cents : As someone suggested, keep Rally1 cars as is until the end of the homogation cycle, with no hybrids and benefit from the weight saving by replacing all the expensive carbon aero kits. This may cut costs enough to bring in private cars. Don' touch Rally2 which is very healthy as is. And "force" manus to enter 4 cars each, including one for young guns.

mate you cannot FORCE Msport to run 4 cars. they have no money.
and cyril is from f1 and in f1 everyone is a crying baby.

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Originally Posted by djip

In no sport are the players making the rules.

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Of course they have some power. Lockouts happened in NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL many times. In F1, drivers boycotts led by Jackie Stewarts end with 1969 Belgian Grand Prix being cancelled and 1970 German Grand Prix being organized in different location.

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Originally Posted by djip

Long story short, if I would be the FIA i would not listen to such bully arguments and stick to what I believe is best for the sport (whatever it is).

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What if taking care of that small amount of participants still interesting to be engaged in this sport is something "best for the sport" right now?

Not considering Toyota's, Hyundai's and Ford's/M-Sport's opinion looks more like power-driven ego than something that could actually help sport thrive.

How would you "force" manus if there will be no manus?

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Originally Posted by djip

At the same time, I find Cyril's attitude pretty childish ... In no sport are the players making the rules.

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It's a commercial series, not the rules of a sport.

Comparable and in today's Premier League news: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/c4n1ndjd7nmo

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

It really is a stupid strategy of the FIA to spend more money on these cars when it's clear it won't result in any more manufacturers, and will likely mean less cars because they'll have wasted money redeveloping current cars.

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Of course Hyundai will pull the plug, Mikkelsen is in the team...


Jokes aside, everyone is agreed that todays rules not working, so something has to be changed.
New rules has to make shure new teams shows up, if its official manufacturers or private teams with support is not that important.
Easier for a manufacturer to support a semi-official team than a full works team i think.
M-sport is one of them, the history of WRC has lots of these teams, prodrive/subaru as a good example thats its possible.



Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

All we need is to get rid of the homologation bullshit so we can have privateers building cars.

WRC team boss delivers scathing critique – “It will be a pretty crap car”

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-bo...etty-crap-car/

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

WRC team boss delivers scathing critique – “It will be a pretty crap car”

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-bo...etty-crap-car/

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Article taken from Motorsport.com

Which this site does all the time (not only Motorsport.com) and that’s why I don’t like them at all

Credit to Motorsport.com

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...boul/10611418/

jezz, cyril has gone full f1 mode with all that crying. hes worst than us here, honestly lol.
f* hyundai, i cant even cheer for tierry to lose that virginity (title) anymore because of this guy.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Article taken from Motorsport.com

Which this site does all the time (not only Motorsport.com) and that’s why I don’t like them at all

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I was sent a screenshot and had to log back in to clear out this nonsense.

This interview stems out from a media event in Rally Portugal where multiple journalists are standing with their recording devices. Tom Howard (Motorsport.com) and Aki Hietavala (Rallyjournal) both had recorded the same answer from Cyril and both can write a story about it. RallyJournal or Rallit.fi might cite sometimes other publications but when they do, it's credited and linked correctly. They don't "take articles" from other publications, it's written in their own words. And there's also original content written, and stuff that's coming from non-English publications so there's a fair amount of value to cite them into the English speaking media.

Carry on.