How Rally2 is helping Suninen prepare for WRC’s next era
The Finn is focusing on the hidden benefits of driving a Rally2 Fiesta
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-r...wrcs-next-era/
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How Rally2 is helping Suninen prepare for WRC’s next era
The Finn is focusing on the hidden benefits of driving a Rally2 Fiesta
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-r...wrcs-next-era/
https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/1390215125404164097
Tänak continues with Hyundai from 2022.
I knew that one of them will sign early to secure main development driver position for the new car. What will Neuville do now?
Quite unexpected I´d say... Or?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Oh, Neuville continues with Hyundai as well!
https://twitter.com/thierryneuville/...15052326838272
so much of not getting along with the boss and not thinking much about the team, lmao
I think this settles silly season quite far...Toyota is looking forward to keep the same drivers as well.
Quite boring silly season isn't it? :D
But yeah, so much talk about sour relationships and they didn't even let the silly season start.
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how come, he can now develop the new car together with the team, he would have had to jump into unknown when leaving. same for NeuvilleQuote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
it totally killed the silly season i would say, cant see anyone from Toyota moving to elsewhere....shame that Msport didnt get one of the big names.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Now it remains to be seen as if Lappi and Ogier will share 3rd car, Mikkelsen to MSport, fight between Fourmaux and Suninen to the 2nd car at Msport , how will Hyundai solve the 3rd car roulette?
My guess:
Lappi and Ogier share 3rd car...unless Ogier wins his 8th Championship (which is very likely!) and decides to go after Loeb's record
If Sordo decides to continue (and he keeps his pace) Breen will be dropped by Adamo, Oliver and Dani share 3rd car
MSport - Mikkelsen and Fourmaux, Suninen will have the 3rd car when available
Well...the Silly Season isn't completely dead after all :D
Was there really anywhere else to go? Was Toyota ever likely? It seems not. M-Sport can't afford top drivers....
My first concern with Tänak going to Hyundai was that the car is difficult on tarmac. This problem will go away for next year since the car will be a completely new one (not just current car with hybrid unit).
My second concern was how Neuville and Tänak will get along with both trying to be driver #1. So far there hasn't been issues, but then again last year's title fight was between Evans and Ogier. How would the atmosphere change in the team if Tänak would have to start giving points to Neuville come the end of the year? But again, Toyota also has two title contenders, so it's the same in both teams.
LAppi?! Really....?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
That's from JML, he's given statements that he would like to bring Lappi back to the team. Now with Tommi and Mia gone it's very likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
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Hyundai state 'Multi-year deals' - why dont they give the exact duration of the contracts ?
Maybe the details are not yet confirmed or have a some sort of condition? I read on twitter it would be 2+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Neuville signed a three year dealQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I think it was that JML told Finnish media that Ogier is interested in a half season. Then the media asked if Lappi would be a good pair for the other half, and he said something like "possibly".Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
I don't think Katsuta would yet be on the level of that job.
I think Breen needs a full season now for his sake, so I'm sure he might talk to Malcolm if Hyundai can't give him that ;)
Sordo and Solberg would be a decent pairing for the 3rd car, although maybe Adamo will think it's a year too early and try to keep Breen.
Mikkelsen's only option i guess is Msport. Malcolm was asked about signing Mikkelsen, and went off on a tangent saying he wanted one of Ogier, Evans, Tanak or Neuville, but would keep an eye on Mikkelsen in wrc2 this season. But now with the big 4 pretty much nailed on to remain where they are, Mikkelsen's position is strengthened (especially if he has some funding too).
Fourmaux nailed on at Msport, and Suninen really needs a strong rest of 2021.
Right now I'd agree it looks like something like this, though I am not very sure about Lappi at Toyota tbh. He was driving with the team for a while and after the awesome start it kind of went downwards only, while the car improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
However, we are only at start of May so a lot can change. For example if Breen does well on a few rallies (that are not fast gravel) or how the Rally2 contenders compare over some rallies (Mikkelsen, Lappi, Suninen, Huttunen, Østberg).
It is entirely logical that both teams and drivers want to sign up early for 20222 car development. Right now this puts MSport in a bad position with less to choose at the same time it also gives them a chance to sign people early.
What about the idea of Ogier doing half a season with Malcom ? They go along very well and it wil be a level playing field .... Malcolm is probably more interested in wins rather than championships (given the cost of going all in)Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
I would bet that he will stay in Toyota for full season in 2022.. why not try out new gen car, take the money and maybe another WDC..
Paddon and Sordo out of M-Sport equation?
I don't believe Paddon is coming back.
Probably Greensmith & Fourmaux will drive full season next year. Loeb and Suninen share the 3rd M-Sport car...
Wilson had ambitions of a top 4 driver just a month or two ago. This kind of setup would be like 2 levels lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
Can't see how Ford would be happy about that. Especially after 2020 and 2021 results and lineup.
My bet was Ott. So, now, i think will not be great season. No top driver at all.
Well, if Ford would put their hands in the their pockets and provide a decent budget, they may be able to get a top driver; technical support is one thing, proper financial backing is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
On the other hand I would say that there likely is some relation between level of Ford support (either technical or financial) and the results the team delivers. Especially over a longer period.
The principle is this:
Ford is happy to pay the car development but M-Sport will have to pay driver salaries, car repairs, traveling to rallies etc. from their own budget / driver budget / sponsors
in 2017 Wilson made a strategic decision to hire Ogier to win titles, and it was successful. Would he pay someone like Mikkelsen, Lappi or Breen to do the same? Would they ensure him titles? No and no.
But if you don't spend, it's unlikely that you'll achieve anything while your competition is in an arms race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
That's the simplified look.
Contrary arguments that we discussed here multiple times before are:
Car development
2017 car was (mostly) capable from the onset, but even then there seemingly were a lot of changes introduced after Ogier came and during the first 3-4 months.
While I do not know the details I guess Tanak was taking part in the development of the car and was by that time relatively experience driver (3rd full WRC season, with some decent results).
Right now it seems the 2022 car development so far is by Matt Wilson, Fourmaux and Greensmith. Is that enough? (maybe it is, but it's definitely easy to doubt that)
Business
M-Sport needs to attract the paying and/or coming drivers to drive with them for their business model. If no driver can show that the car can fight in the top the paying/young guys will go elsewhere (Hyundai). See Loubet, Veiby, Solberg, a few years back they would automatically have been expected to go trough MSport.
As we discussed MSport can take the occasional "year off" (2005, 2016), but now their "year off" is already 2 years long.
D. Evans doing similar kind of speculations we are (except he is getting paid for it):
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/whos-...driver-market/
The end speculations are off course deliberately crazy..... Meeke or Latvala to MSport.
Latvala suddenly leaving team boss role to drive for a competitor "for free", never going to happen.
Meeke has been "open" for MSport to take like 4 times already and never seemed to be anywhere near any negotiations. So why would that happen now.
Loeb for a few starts might be a bit more realistic.
This is all based on Colin’s twitter post and replies on it
https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/sta...715883520?s=21
(Surprisingly?) Little speculation the other way around.
What will Toyota do if Evans goes to MSport and Ogier retires....With all respect to Katsuta, at the moment if he is even number 3 car, Toyota will never win manu champ vs Neuville, Tanak and Solberg/Sordo/Breen.
Evans is a perfect example of how a ("2nd best") driver that was widely dismissed for multiple rally wins or even title chase can change when he gets into a great car. This goes both ways though, say Breen or Suninen might do great in a Toyota and Evans might "suddenly" do much worse back at MSport.
Yes, they would have to persuade Ogier to continue, likely they would get Lappi or Mikkelsen? Or maybe JML decides it's best for the team that he sacrifices his principal role and starts driving again? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Maybe Wilson doesn't want Evans back because he would lose the percentage of Evans's Toyota salary? :D
I though it wouldn't be a proper silly season after Tänak and Neuville signed, but it is :D
Haha good ol' Colin again :D had a good laughQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
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Interesting moment actually. But it's not like we know how far into the future those rumored conditions apply, maybe it's just for the first contract after Msport.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
My money is on Mikkelsen full-time at M-Sport in 2022. He has many different WRC car experiences to help develop the new car and can bring sponsors and/or budget.
What if Lappi beats him clearly (and all other WRC2) in Portugal, that would be 2-0 for Lappi against all other Rally2 drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
What about Gryazin? He has speed/can show what the car is capable of and also (repairing)money..
Don't think he wants to do another season in R5..(over 80 events with different R5s)
+ testing Fiesta before Arctic
+ also Red Bull athlete