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I like how in the post race presser, Loeb comments on beating the two Fin drivers next to him; Mikko is all like:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7sc90Zkp91rrhz69.gif
While you know Jari is inside all like:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpzx2xXVd71qhdftx.gif
ABS-box or something dropped in top of the turbo and whole electricity wires at engine room burned. 3hours work and car was alive again.Quote:
Originally Posted by tolis
Ok, first of all I never even tried to have this as a reason for the Finns bad results, I as many others in Finland KNOW Loeb is the best and that's it.
Secondly I worked as a mechanic with 2 works teams until 2004, and still have lots of collegues there. Also my primary work still is all about motorsport so I work with several suppliers to the WRC factories still!
So I think I at least have a slightly better knowledge about things than the average Joe.
Anyhow in the beginning when I joined this forum it seemed to have a good conversation going on(compared to the Finnish ones where I never post anything) and there still are members here that I can clealry see have some knowledge of things, like Mirek for example.
But I am tired of kids trying to teach their Fathers how to F_ _ _ so this will be my final thread here.
Have fun and keep on guessing whatever you want!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Such a shame you feel that way. This forum badly needs people who have touched the cars and can answer to the "fans" who are always saying "so and so is all washed up, finished! They're sooooooooooooooooooo slow" when they are 1/10 of 1% different, and those who say The ____________car is SOOOOOOOoooooooooOOOOOO much faster because.. blah blah"
Don't go.
AMSS// It´s people like you that makes this forum. It´s not for not that I found this forum years ago on a link on Bosses website.
So don´t mind the kids. Be grown and continue to tribute this forum in the future!
Thank You for compliment which I don't deserve but please don't leave. Use ignore list instead to get rid of comments You don't want to read and take it easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
As this thread is already starting to show signs of paranoia, it feels unnecessary to go back on how I experienced the event. But I still do:
What've been already said by many other spectators, Loeb & Hirvonen ran cleaner in corners and jumps, and that made the difference during the rally I think. The fast places we were at at the beginning of the rally (SS3 Mynnilä and SS4 Urria) the difference didn't show, I was only aware of it through hearing stage times. But on some twistier parts (Mökkiperä, Surkee, even Lankamaa's fast flowing left some 700m before the finish) it was open to a naked eye that Citroens were doing better. Hirvonen should've attacked more however, but when you're against Mr. Loeb, it's not happening if Mr. Loeb doesn't want it to happen. Also notable that out of the 6,1s Mikko lost, 3,4s came from the two SSS. I think Loeb's victory was the closest finish ever in the history of Rally Finland.
Latvala was disarmed through the rally. His comments on Friday morning sounded like his comments on Saturday morning the last year and I think he would've hoped to find that miracle set-up change and neck&shoulders massage at the next service - but he didn't. Third is still decent enough: At our place in Ouninpohja 1 (10,0 km - left, over crest jump, right) he jumped too far and it wasn't too far that he would've ended high speed into big trees.
Other notable drivers:
- Neuville. If someone finds time, it'd be interesting to compare his times (or time loss per km) on Ogier's times in 2009. They were kind of in same situation. Neuville had his problems, but he did very well.
- Lappi and Nikara. Both delivered. Enough said.
- Lindroos. A Loeb-like rally for him in 2WD class. Delivered.
- Evans, Dubert, Chardonnet. Hope to see them again.
- Block and Nobre. It is true that if you only look at the split times from your computer, you wonder why they're there, but rallying is so much more than just being the fastest - or just following it at home. Block was clearly having a mature approach and was always nice to watch. It would've been interesting to compare his times against Wilson jr. - I'd guess he wouldn't have lost too much even against more experienced Finland goer like Wilson is. Nobre of course isn't nothing special on stages, but I've never heard anyone being so heartfelt and excited at the end of the stage interviews. Tourist yes, but a polite one. He doesn't bother anyone by his driving.
It looked as if there were less spectators this year. Lots of foreign spectators too to create the atmosphere since it feels like Finns supporting their own in positive way is harder and harder every year. We did 10 stages with my friend and had a loose enough schedule not to stuck in any particular traffic jam. My friend did the QS too and his car's trip meter had around 1250 km when we finished - and we were based in Jämsä, pretty much the rally center. Lahti-leg alone was 500 km. Not so much walking this year, roughly 25 kms, but we compensated on that by driving bikes to Ouninpohja the same 25 kms (my bike was from the year Carlos Sainz won, it hardly had breaks and if Marcus said "three (gears) is enough" for Ouninpohja, I didn't think the same about only one gear). I'm also very happy about our choices of places, did some classics too like Urria's Mikko's jump and Palsankylä's big jump.
It was also very nice to meet in person with Tom. Also met one other Belgian guy (if you read this, send me PM), some newbie Dutch fans and also a group of French jump-crazy spectators. On Mynnilä stage we advised them to go to Palsankylä jump, and as we left the stage, we ran into them at the jump and I rarely see so happy face as they had.
Here's my friend's set of photos from the places we visited: rallyphotos.kuvat.fi
http://rallyphotos.kuvat.fi/kuvat/NO...280&hash=d1d4d
To me it seems that "the pain is too big" for other than Finns. It sounds like an old broken record.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
What you explained about the changes in Citroen appeared to me as news, not as excuses.
And I'd like to add too, don't leave for this.
I think in this forum has lot of kind of people (like any other though), some are interested apart from the events themselves, also in the technical & driving stuff, others just use opportunities to bark against one or other because you see Loeb is so freaking great, other are just sick dogs and might wonder what are they doing trying to compete against him, blah, blah, blah, better change their profession and we must watch only Loeb.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
So the first group always welcomes such technical information of car development, because racing besides for fans amusement is vital for manufacturers to develop technologies for future road cars, and that is what interests common drivers as well.
Ok took my Prozac dose and calmed down... :) I`ll stay around but I will most definately learn how to use the ignore button.
And thank you all guys who got me to stay, it`s for you this forum is worth being in!!
Great news.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
As stefanvv said “some are interested apart from the events themselves, also in the technical & driving stuff” and I’m one of those and to get some technical information we need guys like you and Mirek etc.
Imo the conversation where better first years after I signed up (9/2007). If you mean www.ralli.net, I haven’t either post there many times. Once a year I visit that site more frequently is when the thread “NORF route and spectator places” starts. The other forum (Ralli - Keskusteluforum) is imo better.
And then I would have a question for you or some other that now about engines. How big is the advantage for direct injection engine (power & torque) compared to a non-DI engine (little oft topic in NORF thread but…..)?
Is that Citroen's new secret secret suspension? Rubber bottom link which stretches instead of breaking? That's brilliant!Quote:
Originally Posted by AP-Racing
:D That btw rises the question - how strong this suspension is? May be it really is "star trek 3" kind suspension, Lunar & Mars rovers have this options for big rocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
How do you spell "pro-sak'' på finska? K-o-r-s-k............ :crazy: Oi då!Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Let me ask something direct since you have worked in this business at high level.
Because the way Homologation works, every team knows a huge amount of data on everything, EVERYTHING... Not just simple paska like bore and stroke in the motor, but connecting rod length, valve sizes and the valve angle, crank weight, size etc, port area and shape, every tooth count in the box and diffs, tons of stuff printed and of course they study the other cars...
All this kiddie talk about various single secret nonsense makes me crazy, but what I wonder is I don't know what to call it except maybe ''the culture of the team'' multiplied by National culture. I worked in motorsport just a step between National Champignonskit and VM in another sport and spent 2 season in France and after I had pounded my head on the ground enough, then 10 years later did a series of long interviews with Ford at Boreham right when the 4x4 Sierras were in testing..
My lasting impression of those 2 seasons in France is how well the Frenchies I know worked together.. Not frantic panic last minute thrashing, but long and steady, and a lot of cooperation between everybody. Way less ''territorial'' or ''this is my turf'' than I see local where I am...
And I saw it in the 'real world'' culture in general in France..definately something there, I did spend 2 full season and spoke the language, worked next to these guys.
I did also work and later have lots of motorsport contacts and visits in UK, and the 'atmosphere' was much much different...way more stratification between people, kinda more hierarchical....ya know Owners, Engineers, peon mechanics, etc..
That was impression (not a value judgement).
When we think the differences really are 0,0002%, I wonder how much they general team 'cooperative feeling' makes a tiny differency getting everything right...Maybe a difference of 0,0001%?
Your thoughts?
Dubert in ditch on SS5 Jukojärvi:
http://juhake.kapsi.fi/motorsport/norf12/IMG_3233.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Maybe better than Star Trek, it is Finland and so maybe its ''Star Wreck'' suspension....
I assume you are familiar with the Epic Great Finnish Film ''Star Wreck--In the Pirkinning''?
Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning :: Parody's final frontier!
If not, you should be, it explains a lot about that crazy country...
Why do you guys make such nasty ditches everywhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
about who are you talking mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
That's no ditch! Propers ditches are in Ypres :DQuote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Yes, this is not ditch. It is small depression where drunk people tend to sleep when they get tired. You know, no risk of rolling away from your "bed" ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Having been very slightly exposed to the French way of doing WRC and the two British teams I agree with your perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I hate that when it happens!Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Few photos from fridays stages Urria, Mökkiperä and Mökkiperä 2
http://kaitainen.net/gallery.php?id=186&lang=en
So French are like bees in a hive, English like wasp nest. What should we expect from the Germans? Last WRC team there was Toyota if I'm not mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
Toyota was a United Nations, Swedes, Finns, French, Brits, Belgians' and Germans. A fantastic team, much missed.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
I would add one more as it's an interesting man (I admit don't know him personally). Czech Josef Juračka was working in TTE in 1990-1995. He is now owner of Juka Motorsport - team which has been running Škoda Deutschland cars for ten years (now Wiegand in IRC). His team was also cooperating in building S2000 cars for Škoda Motorsport customers. Also capable of major rebuilds of all Škoda WRC cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
That's correct, sorry I forgot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I believe there was also a New Zealander in the squad. I don't know his name but recall buying a house in Christchurch (1992) from a lady whose son was a member of the team. She was most proud.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
No need to apologize ;) You can't remember every single person through the history of the team, can You? :) He just came to my mind when You wrote about TTE as an interesting mix of nationalities.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
And T.T.E had an Australian Team Doctor, used to commute from WA to every wrc event.
Wonder if he had anything to do with the design of the illegal turbo restrictor? Must be nice to be labelled a genius from Mosley!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Anyway - this is still NORF thread...
Me and my son Simon was in Finland for 11th time in 13 years.
Very good rally this year. As always. Strange though, Jyväskylä didn´t have camping places for tenters. We had to find our own place outside the center of J-Ä. At the shore of Taulumäki we finally found a place to put our tent although it was quite near some industri buildings and near a thoroughfare for exercising people running almost around the clock...
We did 8 stages and got to talk to Ken Block after his off on Leustu. We also saw Mads on his very BIG moment at Leustu just before Saakoski.
We met friendly people we ever met before, nice finnish people on stages and after reading this forum I reccon we were at same place as Hartusvuori on Urria...
Even met Morten, Katie J at Ford, Per Carlsson, Camelopard and his lovely wife Erica, Mads and Jonas at recce on Mynnilä, Kai T and many more people.
I got my very need of Finland and will with love come back next year to the most beloved rally in the WRC. Having said that during listening to Jorma Kääriäinen on Spotify....
>>Having said that during listening to Jorma Kääriäinen on Spotify....
Auts! That must hurt!!
I think anyone with their eyes open could see a change from previous rallies this season. Citroen found an edge speed wise....seems like new suspension part could be part of the reason!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
Citroen took 16 stage wins compared to Ford 3.
Here are our pictures if you are interested to see some: We hope you like them.
Neste Oil Rally Finland 2012 | Tango Team
BR, Tango Team Motorsport
for which reason are these wooden poles next to the road? aren t they dangerous in a possible off?
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/wrc/f...Ouninpohja.jpg
This is similar in Estonia and in Finland. Those are traditional fences for old farm properties. They are usually more for cosmetic purposes than for defending purposes. Construction wise they are very light wooden poles and usually not even able to go through the car window.
Sorry if I have missed it, but is there any onboard of Mikkos record run through Ouninpohja?
It was not a record run. Mikko's time on Ouninpohja 2 was indeed 1,2 seconds faster that Petter's time in 2004, but in 2004 the stage was 230 metres longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyc85