Same Sex Marriage

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Religion is a choice, or it should be. Can you chose your parents? For a child that has been abandoned, someone is chosing the parents for them. That can only ever be the equivalent of 'making the best of a bad job' IMO.

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It's considered a choice only if you're an atheist.
Speaking of parents, we definitely can't chose biological parents.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Speaking of parents, we definitely can't chose biological parents.

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Not all couples (who could be biological parents) are suitable to have children.

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Originally Posted by henners88

This thread seems to address a more male angle, but what do you guys think of two lesbians adopting? Is that different because it would be like two mums and perhaps the male influence isn't as important?

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From the childs perspective, I see two males bringing up a female an issue, and I've alluded to why, IMO, earlier.

I see it less of an issue for two women to bring up either a boy or a girl. I am unable at this point to articulate why. That is just the way I see it.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Not all couples (who could be biological parents) are suitable to have children.

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That's true. But it's a fatality, you can't reject your biological parents on the principle that "you can't turn the blood into water". I have a few members of my family which sometimes get on my nerves but I still love them and forgive their mistakes as we have the same roots.
On the other hand all those who support adoption by couples of same sex come with the reason of assuring a loving and caring background as if that minority can't have its own bad guys.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

That's true. But it's a fatality, you can't reject your biological parents on the principle that "you can't turn the blood into water". I have a few members of my family which sometimes get on my nerves but I still love them and forgive their mistakes as we have the same roots.
On the other hand all those who support adoption by couples of same sex come with the reason of assuring a loving and caring background as if that minority can't have its own bad guys.

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I know of a married couple, the women of which I used to work with, who adopted. They gave the child back because they could not get on!

Seriously, how do you think that made the child feel?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

All nonsense, as I would expect from you. Your first paragraph is especially absurd. Bullying is no-one's fault other than the bully's. As a right-winger, I presume you believe in people taking personal responsibility? Well, why not apply it in this case?

I resent being told by someone whose opinions I consider ill-developed that my sexuality alone renders me inferior at anything.

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You are now struggling to discuss this properly. More personal jibes, and you are trying to bring politics into it again, as if a conversation five years ago has relevance here?!

People of course should take personal responsbility. Either you've not understood my point, or you've chosen to ignore it. It is quite simple really and I'm not repeating it again.

It is not about your sexuality, stop trying to make exaggerate everything. This is simply about my argument that a mother/father parenthood is better than a mother/mother or father/father one.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Well I don't agree with you, but haven't really got anything else to add myself. This is just one of those things neither of us will be able to see from the others perspective.

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At least we are not dull and 'samey'. There clearly is not a right and wrong answer.

And to change one's opinion because someone does not agree with you would be a tad shallow.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I couldn't agree more. The backward, unenlightened thinking that accompanies this topic is unsurprising to some extent, but largely just saddening.

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Backward? You really have a bad choice in insults sometimes.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Children naturally look for influence in adults and if a female or male presence isn't there, then it will be sort..

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I'm not sure things are so easy.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Lets not forget influence doesn't just end at the parents, most people have family members that help where children are involved. Not always I know. ..

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But as the say "mum is the only one". :laugh:
Family helps but it's not enough. In my country a lot of children are living the drama of having parents working abroad and they're left with grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. who love them and take care of them but can't replace their presence. A lot of suicides have happened from missing them.

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Originally Posted by henners88

This thread seems to address a more male angle, but what do you guys think of two lesbians adopting? Is that different because it would be like two mums and perhaps the male influence isn't as important? I know from experience when my wife was pregnant that very little thought goes in to helping the man during pregnancy, and opinions seem to be old fashioned even in the modern NHS.

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After my father’s death nothing was the same. Even if in his last years he was ill and helpless I still felt a stability and security. I suppose these were the things that a man usually brings ( or should bring ) in a family. Unfortunately although my mother is a brave woman she and the rest of family couldn’t ever replace his role.
Of course I survived but always felt the family is incomplete.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

After my father’s death nothing was the same. Even if in his last years he was ill and helpless I still felt a stability and security. I suppose these were the things that a man usually brings ( or should bring ) in a family. Unfortunately although my mother is a brave woman she and the rest of family couldn’t ever replace his role.
Of course I survived but always felt the family is incomplete.

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I am sorry to learn of your experience.

Imagine how the child who loses both parents is then put with foster parents. It will be hard enough to adjust if you have been used to a mum and a dad - how might you feel in a same sex parent family?

I am not saying it is wrong per se, I just think that, for the child, it's hard enough as it is.