I think Hyundai stopped the customer program only because they didn't have resources. They could hardly build cars for the three factory drivers...
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I think Hyundai stopped the customer program only because they didn't have resources. They could hardly build cars for the three factory drivers...
No I think he got ordered to stop (+ what AnttiL says about time), but it was him telling about it in an interview (on DF I think). So I wrote he said it in case people want to search it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
Just if someone could remind me the situation with Evans. Does he have an agreement for 2023 or is he out of contract at the end of the season?
I think, but don’t take my word for it, that he’s signed until the end of 2023, but I honestly don’t remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
I don't know if this was already discussed here but Belfast Telegraph asked if Breen’s seat would come under review at the end of the campaign, Millener added: “We took Craig on a two-year deal, but these performances make it trickier with partners and sponsors as far as what we do moving forward. We need to show we are competitive and do well in the Championship.”
Full story: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...-41927083.html
Without Breen how they could get any better?Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
https://www.elfynevans.com/post/elfy...oo-racing-dealQuote:
Originally Posted by Eli
If that's true then he is out of contract at the end of 2022.
My bold prediction is Tänak and Evans will swap teams at the end of 2022 season.
Use Breen's money to ask Leob to make more rounds? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
I just can't see that happening. Why would Toyota make things more complicated for themselves? They have a clear nr 1 and very solid nr 2. With Tänak they would get Hamilton vs Rosberg situation and this would mean tensions within the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Why you guys always right away predict tensions?
He was teammates with Ogier with no tensions, then people predicted he wouldn’t get along with Neuville. Yeah we are seeing some niggling now between them but for two years there was nothing.
Solid point! Both will have one title by then and the rest is just a bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Because Akio is a fan of Ott's talentQuote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
If there is one guy who you can not get driving by just giving (more) money, it's Loeb. He is doing it for fun till he find it to be fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
... Tänak left from M-Sport because he was tired to be number 2 (getting team-orders, new parts later etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
... Tänak and Neuville manage it, because they have common enemy (not working car, lack of team structure) etc - I think it would be completely different story when they both could be in reachable distance from World Title
and this is all logical - they are competitors, they all are there for winning titles not being wingmans for friends for someone.
because now his status changed a lot from ogier time. that time ott was nowhere near asking priority for the development of the car, especially comparing his carreer at that point vs ogier. now the situation is very different.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
also, consider this: for the past years set up of the car could be opposite way between drivers (in term of components too). now some parts as to be the same on every car (ie around the differential). so teams needs to prioritize a choice.
and magically arguing appears in hiunday too, as well as more "issues" related to set ups or diffs (like solberg crashing on neuville parts...)
Evans has a contract for next season. Yes he has been underwhelming a little bit compared to last 2 yrs, but the season could've been a lot different had he not chucked away the lead in Monte and a podium in Sweden. He was immediately up against it and perhaps lost a little confidence.
He doesn't cause trouble, he will rack up points and it seems there is a perfect dynamic in that Toyota team. I don't think 3 championship challengers can work in 1 team - so don't see why Toyota would bother adding Tanak alongside Kalle and Evans.
If Evans feels like Kalle is about to become a dominant force like Ogier did to Latvala at VW, then maybe Evans looks to go back to Msport. But then surely beating Kalle in the same car is easier than doing it at Msport considering Msports history of development struggles.
Personally I would also keep current driver lineups but some whispers here and there are telling otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
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I want to watch three teams fighting at least for podiums next year, so I would totally not keep current lineups.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
In a real world M-Sport doesn't have the finances to hire any of those 5 drivers from other teams. Lappi also confirmed that it's either TGR or nothing. Keep dreaming. Only real moves come from those 2 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
EDIT, so you can't twist my words this was said in a condition that if I was a team manager at TGR. Ideally I would also like to have more performance and better drivers at M-Sport but I just cannot see this happening.
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Wilson said last year they had money for top driver. Millener said 2 weeks ago they would use money to get title contender but sadly none are available. Whether we believe them or not is another matter.
For the championship’s sake I’d rather have Tänak join M-Sport (alongside Breen for next season at least) & that way we have 3 title contenders in 3 different teams like we had back in 2019, realistically though, M-Sport would need to pull a rabbit out of their hat to make it happen.
it's pr, it's part of the game, not only rally, but for every brand. reality is another thing. i 'd not rely to much on media statement...
Deleted
The annoying thing is that they don't seem to have a middle ground. They could've kept Lappi and or Suninen but wanted them to pay/wouldn't do pre event tests etc. They didn't plan for this season at all, other than hoping foolishly they could attract a top driver, and then went to other end of the spectrum with effective pay drivers with backing, and Breen crumbling under the pressure of being the only driver capable of fighting (when Loeb isn't there).Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
They're not interested in Mikkelsen and Malcolm only wants him if he pays. They're losing faith in Fourmaux. Loeb won't do enough events. Meeke has no future do his age so they aren't keen, and he'd crash. But then all their drivers are crashing anyway and have no speed. They're in an awful position and have nowhere to turn it seems
Well that's my main issue as well. It's either Ogier or you pay even if you have rally wins/podiums like those 3.
To be fair they did kind of go middle ground with Breen, but that's one out of 3 cars and risking it all on performace of one didn't work.
Evans was pretty much a middle driver comparable to those 3 until he went to Toyota (and almost got kicked for good at end of 2018).
I think it's unfair to say they didn't plan for this season. The plan for this season and the driver they backed was Craig Breen with a group of younger inexperienced drivers backing him up and part-time Loeb. Sadly Craig has largely under delivered and has had accidents on his favoured events and not shown full potential elsewhere. And then of the youngsters in the team there has been flashes but neither Fourmaux, Greensmith or Loubet have set the world alight. While Loeb has delivered a win out of his 3 appearances.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
The big question will be is how radically they change their approach to next season, do they continue to back Breen and any current drivers? Or will they bring in another more experienced top driver into the team as well as supporting other youngsters like Huttunen. And of course this all depends on finances and other deals.
So far with his limited season Loubet has looked the best of the current M-Sport youngsters with a 4th place in Sardegna. I'd like to see how he gets on in Acropolis and other events this year.
I wonder would they approach Ogier again and offer him to drive whatever events he wants next year while doing none of the PR etc he may/may not have to do with Toyota?
Just a thought. They need to explore every avenue IMO and help Craig by not having him as no1 in most events.
Imagine them having Loeb and Ogier coming in for events to take the pressure off and help develop the car and the team, as well as imparting wisdom to the younger drivers.
If they want to help Craig, A) they shouldn't give him the boot for next season & B) Bring in Tänak (assuming Ogier/Loeb.etc aren't available/tied to Toyota) & have him as your main driver while taking of the pressure from Breen and teaching him a thing or two about becoming world champion (the same way Ogier showed the way to Tänak). That's my two cents on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewy46
Can somebody please explain this pressure of being the team leader/main/no. 1 driver that Breen is supposed to have that's making him crumble? What the hell are you all talking about?
Some drivers are able to handle the pressure and clearly Breen is not that kind of driver unfortunately. It´s not bad luck or something else to make mistakes third event in a row in this situation.
What pressure? If Ogier and Tanak are in the same team and he still crashes, is he then just shit?Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
Do anyone think any of the best drivers in WRC2 would do a worse season than the M-sport boys? I don't.
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Really have to say it out to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
The pressure from being the number one and only one in the team who can bring decent results
The way I see it with Breen is he's now top dog at MSport so he's comparing himself with the other top dogs. So he's trying to be on pace with Rovanpera, Evans, Tanak and Neuville. Now his ability and maybe the car is possibly not quite up to it so he's pushing over the limit and crashing. When he was 3rd driver he could be comfortable in 2nd 3rd 4th 5th behind the main drivers and that was job done. He could then complain that he's missing a few percent of speed due to not having a full time drive. I like the guy but I think we're seeing his limit.
I get that his experience means expectations are higher, but this is all in your heads. Like - it's the standard commentary so it must be fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
“We know as a team Craig is capable of securing good results, but that just hasn’t happened in the last few rallies,” said Richard Millener.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
“There is a lot of pressure on him right now and this accident only makes things worse again for him. We just need to support him because we know that Craig can do it.
Craig Breen has been competing in WRC on a regular basis since 2009. He has 77 WRC rallies on his account. In recent years he was constantly repeating that he wanted to compete in a WRC car in a factory team. Now he has it. Pressure is a natural ingredient of this situation. Didn't he have enough time to get used to it?
P.S. I don't want to criticize him. I am just surprised that he has such problems. I wish him all the best.
For me, Millener’s story about they only would hire a WDC contender is clearly bs. I don’t really understand how they could hope to hire one with a team not able to make PET everywhere (I precise it’s not a criticism, I understand the financial situation is not simple), with not that much ability of development and whereas all the contenders have a contract for next year. It’s clearly only PR thing: only spot for hiring one will be 2024 at the end of their contract if one has been disappointing with this risk that it’s a declining driver (a bit like Hirvonen comeback in 2014).
And on the other hand, Wilson has always been clear that they are making top-class only as a store front to show they are better than other preparation brand; as they don’t have VW or Toyota money, it’s understandable they cannot compete for a lot of wins but they should be able to compete for at least 3/4 podiums as they did after Ford and Qatar withdrawal in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019 (and we could say they were not that far in 2020); 2017-2018 was a bit special in the next few years.
If they’re not able to do this at least in the next few years (with no more advantage of having prepared the new generation car first), it’s a non-sense to follow in the top-class championship, they should focus to fix the Rally2 car and quit the top class because they’re not winning any money in Rally1 (almost no pure client) and the front store would not be attractive.
IMO, best realistic solution for them for next year is to go for a individual rally strategy and completely forgetting about the global picture championship.
Which means:
- Take back Breen to a role of part-time driver, it’s where he was the most efficient with Citroen and Hyundai, focusing on some events and having even better road positions. Should be possible with Breen outside of top 5 in WDC except if they messed up badly on the contract.
- sharing his car with a guy with not too far RC1 experience who could be able to play one or two podiums with cheap salary (not paying to drive but paid only the minimum): best would be Ogier or Lappi if they are not maintained by Toyota but complicated I think. Else Mikkelsen or Suninen are probably the best shots; would be surprising they couldn’t convince one of the 2 with that type of offers, they have to take risks now to comeback in top class. Ostberg, Paddon or Meeke too risky in my opinion so only other option would be Solberg if not kept by Hyundai
- convincing Loeb of making a 3-to-5-round calendar; don’t think he wants to do more and anyway, he is not anymore the 30-yo Loeb, don’t think he can be efficient in a large calendar as he is making much more mistakes than in the past (hopefully I would say considering his age)
- focusing on one second-tier youngster, probably with some backing, either Loubet, Fourmaux, Huttunen, Rossel or even Lindholm. Theoretically, best would be Loubet as it was the most convincing and he knows the car so lowest learning delay to wait and more probability to take profit fast. In other scenario, Solberg if not kept by Hyundai
- and then, to finish, whoever pays fully for the drives.
For me, it’s the best way they have to optimize the result with something that is in their financial range.
Oh Ok, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
What is he supposed to say? "We want to hire someone bang average"? "Mediocre driver wanted to lead our team"? "We surrender, just give us third place now"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
They clearly expected a LOT more from Breen.
No, the exact opposite. And Breen's seasson just proves them right. He was supposed to be "the best of the rest" but they haven't really done better this year than with just paying drivers. But with Ogier they got three titles in two years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Of course, it's not as simple as just hiring a driver, a world champion level driver like Ogier or Tänak will demand higher level of development and testing and will be granted it.