WRC Rally Argentina 2012

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Originally Posted by oyunbozan

i am in paralel universe?

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This one...

the rest have no meaning...

Rally was never good for tv... and spectator numbers did not decrease because of competition... they decreased because now rallies are limited in a small area which has many advantages but also disadvantages... and because people prefer to stay home and watch tv motorsport or when they visit one to be surounded by commercial neon thingies and half dressed women since they are incapable or having anything at home...

Life in general adopts the fast-food mentality that's why rallying is trying to survive and you see useless clowns of nothingness with no soul getting all the publicity when they mix rallying with sideways shows...

It is the whole world that needs a restart in order for rallying to become attractive... and since it is a bit unlikely rallying needs to just stay focused on the values of those few people who love the sport no matter if their favourite driver is dominating or is a sick dog or the manufacturer that wins is the same as their garage car...

rallying doesn't need sheep ...we have ladysports like footbal and F1 for those overweight pop corn fans.

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Originally Posted by amilk

Not enough spectators? based on what you say this?

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based on for example in my country, which is about 75.000.000 people live in, only 300 to 500 people is truely intrested in rally but it was much more at 80's and 90's but it is tens of thousands of people interested in f1, even drag races are full of spectators. when i go spectating a national rally i see very few people.

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Originally Posted by KKS

Every girl have valve's and head gasket in his bags?

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What girls are doing valves etc. if alternator belt is broken? Girls can fix belt but are you using valves and gaskets?!

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

This one...

the rest have no meaning...

Rally was never good for tv... and spectator numbers did not decrease because of competition... they decreased because now rallies are limited in a small area which has many advantages but also disadvantages... and because people prefer to stay home and watch tv motorsport or when they visit one to be surounded by commercial neon thingies and half dressed women since they are incapable or having anything at home...

Life in general adopts the fast-food mentality that's why rallying is trying to survive and you see useless clowns of nothingness with no soul getting all the publicity when they mix rallying with sideways shows...

It is the whole world that needs a restart in order for rallying to become attractive... and since it is a bit unlikely rallying needs to just stay focused on the values of those few people who love the sport no matter if their favourite driver is dominating or is a sick dog or the manufacturer that wins is the same as their garage car...

rallying doesn't need sheep ...we have ladysports like footbal and F1 for those overweight pop corn fans.

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`Wow` this is all very deep!

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Originally Posted by T.Maanteiden kuningas

What girls are doing valves etc. if alternator belt is broken? Girls can fix belt but are you using valves and gaskets?!

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When belt are broke with working engine valves have a very hot "greetings" with pistons, isn't?
If I don't know exactly how Fiesta's WRC engine build and after alternator belt are broke - car still can go with a battery power, even 4km.. isn't?

Standings WRC 2012 [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs et Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012

Only rookies kill engines driving without waterpump, driver can notice when belt is gone. You can drive more than 4km with battery power.

keep vanging master yoda. i gotta write the news, adios.

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Originally Posted by jbmarcus21

Standings WRC 2012 [Drivers, Manufacturers, Scratchs et Power Stage] Classements Saison Wrc 2012

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You posted a link not-shortened for money?

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Originally Posted by oyunbozan

sordo will not come back to ford ever after this bull****. alternator belt broke down in normal stage before last stage, ah yea.. it looks to be a late desicion to retire him to me. manufacturers title is totaly imposible because citroen has the most consistent drivers of today.. =

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Erroneous.

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Originally Posted by KKS

When belt are broke with working engine valves have a very hot "greetings" with pistons, isn't?
If I don't know exactly how Fiesta's WRC engine build and after alternator belt are broke - car still can go with a battery power, even 4km.. isn't?

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KKS the alternator belt is different from engine belt which cause the catastrophe when snapped.But yes it is possible to run few km with broken alternator belt,depents from the battery.

I'm waiting for 2012 to start already. Hopefully Prodrive will be back 100% and things will start to look better again.

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Originally Posted by T.Maanteiden kuningas

Only rookies kill engines driving without waterpump, driver can notice when belt is gone. You can drive more than 4km with battery power.

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you have confused too alternator belt with engine belt.

When I complained about superally rulles I didn't think what could happen to Sordo. I'm really sorry he is the best proof for this words. Today he deserved points much more than Solberg, Neuville or Novikov...

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Originally Posted by oyunbozan

based on for example in my country, which is about 75.000.000 people live in, only 300 to 500 people is truely intrested in rally but it was much more at 80's and 90's but it is tens of thousands of people interested in f1, even drag races are full of spectators. when i go spectating a national rally i see very few people.

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start of the off topic:
I thought that there are nearly 80 million people in Turkey? And your number between 300 and 500 does not look realistic. When the rally is popular in national level then people are more interested in WRC as well. I can see that national rally Championship is in rise in Turkey in last couple of years and therefore I expect WRC to grow in next couple of years as well. So, keep up your good work and positive mind, we enthusiasts are the ones who can make the rally more popular in our countries
End of the off topic

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Originally Posted by Gherid_lacksGPS

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2...hztbo1_250.gif

Really, it's crazy....

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why, why, why, Delilah?

Congrats to Loeb for his 70th win.Congrats to Mikko for being professional.
like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.
About Ford /Petter what can i say?....Same ****, different day unfortunately,for all of us and the sport we love.
Sordo a bit of dissapointment,but was complaining about his notes,tyre choice, and setup,so can t be sure.From his interviews i have a feeling that while he knew the right tyre choice, Ford had an opposite opinion.
Ostberg,Novikov,Nasser not so good,no progress at all.
Neuville mixed impressions.....speed sometimes is there,but he is all over the place causing problems.Clearly visible at almost all videos i ve seen.Ok 1st year so we have to be patience.
Roll on Greece! can t wait!

@østberg, he was first time here, said before the start that he going to take it easy and not do any mistakes. I think he did it quite ok!

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Originally Posted by dimviii

Congrats to Loeb for his 70th win.Congrats to Mikko for being professional.
like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.
About Ford /Petter what can i say?....Same ****, different day unfortunately,for all of us and the sport we love.
Sordo a bit of dissapointment,but was complaining about his notes,tyre choice, and setup,so can t be sure.From his interviews i have a feeling that while he knew the right tyre choice, Ford had an opposite opinion.
Ostberg,Novikov,Nasser not so good,no progress at all.
Neuville mixed impressions.....speed sometimes is there,but he is all over the place causing problems.Clearly visible at almost all videos i ve seen.Ok 1st year so we have to be patience.
Roll on Greece! can t wait!

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Waiting for Solberg's win in Greece.

Ford/Petter is a different story, he maybe take to big risks. But its also weird how easy the Fords losts its wheels....

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Originally Posted by Mirek

When I cmplained about superally rulles I didn't think what could happen to Sordo. I'm really sorry he is the best proof for this words. Today he deserved points much more than Solberg, Neuville or Novikov...

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Yes indeed. They should delete superally and increase the time limit to finish the stage a little. Then there is more motivation to fix the cars and more story for the press. Another example is comparison between Tänak and Novikov. Novikov lost the wheel at the beginning of the stage, Tänak broke the steering, fixed it in around 18 minutes and managed to continue. He was in trouble in next stage as well and finally managed to get going again but was OTL. Novikov and Neuville meanwhile sat on the side of the road and collected 5 minutes for each stage.. final results.. Neuville lost around 11 minutes, Novikov around 21 and Tänak around 37 minutes. Sordos situation is even worse.. So, what I want to say is the fact that many problems can be fixed in stage but it is easier and less time consuming to use superally.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

@østberg, he was first time here, said before the start that he going to take it easy and not do any mistakes. I think he did it quite ok!

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Ostberg was there in 2010 as well

Mikkelsen was first time either,and was fighting with Ogier inside the road and faultless for 500km.

I´ll wait for Ogier and Mikkelsen fight in real WRC-cars next year. That will be the day.

BTW girls with nylon stockings could be useful - needing a fan belt.)

1.000.000+ ESPECTATORS IN Argentina.....
In Greece just N.O.T. writting in this forum (from his living room) and who else ?

I have to work, otherway i were there.. But ur all welcome in germany (another victory for Loeb...)! :o

Well kind of not very impressed by sordo whole weekend. He was clearly behind the other 3 factory drivers in terms of speed and basically at about same place (even time-wise) he would have been in a mini.

So one can wonder....

Sordo is not top 4 on gravel ( if we add Ogier then not even top 5) ?
Mini is not much worse than Fiesta... which actually seems tiny bit faster than Citroen on gravel ?

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Originally Posted by dimviii

KKS the alternator belt is different from engine belt which cause the catastrophe when snapped.But yes it is possible to run few km with broken alternator belt,depents from the battery.

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OK. Two different belts, we know that an alternator belt was broke at Sordo's Fiesta. So theoretically he can drive on a battery charge this 4km? But he don't do this, why?

Maybe Fiesta has electric water pump like 207 S2000? Anyway You need to get to finish ramp, not only to finish of stage.

Maybe it broke before he reached the start of the stage? Maybe he realised he wouldn't get to the finish and so no point risking stopping in the middle of the road and causing problems for the rest of the competitors yet to start.

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Originally Posted by EightGear

Unbelievable.... Sordo deserved it. Retiring on the last stage while he survied all stages... Rally 2 is ugly.

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There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.

Well at least Salazar finished without Rally2.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.

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I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his third rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

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Originally Posted by tfp

There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.

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I think the idea behind Rally 2 is good; i.e. allowing cars to return to the competition. In some instances it provides great excitement e.g. Petter in Portugal, and also the chance to gain experience for young drivers, while for others it provides a second chance if there is a technical issue or something which isn't their fault. However the application of the theory into practise is ugly. I personally have no better solution though so would be hypocritical to criticise it!

It basically depends on what people prioritise as the most important thing in the WRC - pace or consistency. In my opinion pace is more important in modern rallying, and therefore when Petter has been possibly the fastest driver in the last 2 rallies I don't feel as bad for him to win stages to claw his way back up the leaderboard with Superrally penalties because he has the pace to win, and therefore getting 0 points seems harsh, even if fair. However sometimes drivers simply benefit from other problems when under Superrally, shown no pace at all and still end up in the points e.g. Novikov this weekend. Meanwhile Mikkelsen and Sordo get no points even though they lasted much longer. A simple solution would be to add Superrally to the final leg too, or possibly add some sort of rule like you have to win a stage or be top 3 in a stage or something to be eligible for Superrally points?

That's my thinking... out loud!

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Originally Posted by EightGear

I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his second rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

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I believe dimvii was referring to the rumours that VW want a German driver such as Wiegand or Gassner in their car as opposed to Abbring or Mikkelsen.

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

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Originally Posted by J4MIE

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

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How about remove Superrally from the last rally of the season to avoid that problem? My opinion is that Superrally is needed as without it the manufacturers wouldn't have anywhere near as much coverage, especially if JML or Petter bin it first stage for example and then are no longer in the 'competition'. It's not very attractive to the people who make decisions, for want of a better phrase, when your cars could be out of the rally and therefore the spotlight after only 1km of a 400km rally! And for fans it's rubbish too - if I pay loads of money to see a rally abroad and then by Sunday none of the 4 manufacturer cars are running competitively I'll feel robbed... while Superrally is a very impure and ugly thing, it is also generally a positive idea I think.

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?

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Originally Posted by J4MIE

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?

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Trouble is it's that attitude which almost killed the sport. Rallying is getting less and less popular and finally there's a chance it might be on the up with VW and hopefully one other manufacturer coming in, and to just sit back and not try and adapt rallying into the modern times is short-sighted and inevitably the wrong decision I think. You say there are plenty of other motorsports, and that's as may be, but personally I want more competition within the WRC. The fact that Ford and BMW have already moved into other motorsports i.e. Touring Cars suggests that the whole 'ethos of rallying' is no longer an attractive proposition?

As for the second question, I'm not sure what you mean.

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Originally Posted by KKS

OK. Two different belts, we know that an alternator belt was broke at Sordo's Fiesta. So theoretically he can drive on a battery charge this 4km? But he don't do this, why?

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In Fiesta WRC the same belt works with alternator and with water pump.