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here we were talking/answering about performance of the forthcoming cayman from below postQuote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Quote:
Originally Posted by giu canbera
If you want to talk about porsche profits/shares after involment at rg-t class,start a different topic
Seeing a Fiat Abarth on the podium is ALWAYS a good thing! No matter how many cars are racing...
I wish I was a billionaire... I'd totally build an Abarth to compete in WRC top class hehe
This thread is about RGT class, not WRC2 championship. I can assume You're just trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
that this thread is about r gt class,doesnt allow you to post stupidityQuote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Quote:
Originally Posted by giu canbera
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Ok, I'm dirty enough now arguing. Insulting someone is the first sign of helpless in the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
That's true but I still lack the rationale of this step. Simply why?
Good question - why? Unless they know something we don't. A proper GT series, or a Tarmac series......Porsche don't do things on a whim - there's always a reason.
Excatly my point! Everyone who is against this class is a stupid one....no matter who the manufacturer is, is welcome on a rally scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
And mine too! One of the things that got me into rallying in the late eighties/early nineties was the variety of competing cars. Nowadays it looks completely different. Any new manufacturer or car is welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
More than serving a rational purpose, Porsche history in rally has been always driven by the passion of a few brave guys facing the brand clear orientation towards track racing. Vic Elford (one of Porsche top racing drivers of the late 60’s, early 70’s) had an important role convincing his employer to get 911’s into international rally, while Jurgen Barth (Porsche racing costumer branch chief for decades and a talented driver himself) was a major influence in Porsche cars rally use during Gr.4 and Gr.B years. More recently we had some Porsche importers and dealers involved in national rally and a few private teams, like Tuthill and RD, homologating RGT cars for international use. I’m curious to know more on RM article, but it wouldn’t be surprising if this new effort is another small scale passionate program, probably inspired by the amazing Dumas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Another interesting result of a GT car in France. Nicolas Ciamin and his Abarth were 5th overall in Rallye Rouergue, a round of French rally championship. Interesting fact - Ciamin won stage 6, where he was faster than all R5 cars.
Final results of RALLYE AVEYRON ROUERGUE 2018:
1. Quentin Gilbert/Renaud Jamoul (F/B) Skoda Fabia R5 1:58.31,0
2. Pierre Roché/Martine Roché (F) Skoda Fabia R5 +2,9
3. Jordan Berfa/Damien Augustin (F) Hyundai i20 R5 +1.08,3
4. Eric Mauffrey/Kévin Bronner (F) Skoda Fabia R5 +1.53,0
5. Nicolas Ciamin/Anthony Vilanova (F) Abarth 124 Rally +3.25,2
6. William Wagner/Kévin Mllet (B/F) Ford Fiesta R5 +4.12,4
7. Jean-Laurent Chivaydel/Nicolas Capoulade (F) Ford Fiesta R5 +4.34,7
8. Cédric Robert/Matthieu Duval (F) Renault Clio R3T +6.34,3
9. Vincent Leduc/Laurence Pelamourgues (F) Hyunsai i20 R5 +6.51,8
10. Alexis Sirmain/Rémi Nolorgues (F) Peugeot 106 +7.05,5
http://www.kaleidosweb.com/wp-conten...min-Custom.jpg
Unfortunately his car is not R-GT FIA spec. but otherwise it's of course great to see him setting such result.
Honestly I don't know. Maybe someone from France can help?
I heard there is no restrictor on that turbo. It's a fast car but mainly a very fast and crazy driver too!
Any news on new R-GT cars in the pipeline, for instance the new Alpine?
From France or from anywhere...GT+ regs are public: item 20 on 'Annexe J en cours' https://www.ffsa.org/pages/SecuriteR...eJEnCours.aspxQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Yep, the 124 GT+ is believed to have 30 to 40 hp more. Ciamin is really flying with it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NctzraWDTlEQuote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
Sadly RGT cars are hugely penalized by FIA regs. Abarth was brave and smart enough to develop the 124 Rally for privateers, helping them to buy and run the cars through the Abarth Rally Trophy. It’s a nice effort, but RGT needs a couple more manus doing the same. Maybe Porsche and Alpine will soon realize they can easily adapt the Cayman Clubsport and the A110 GT4 to rally and get a nice profit selling them to eager rally costumers around the world. Fingers crossed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Btw, still no more info on Rallye Magazine article (anyone reading the paper version?) but this came out on Dumas fb:
https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...e7&oe=5B9DFDC7
Apparently Dumas and his team are already testing the RGT Cayman, but there's no clue on Porsche actual involvement.
https://twitter.com/RomainDumas/stat...42819948814336
We have started earlier this week the development of the Porsche Cayman #RGT. 3 good days of work @PoleMecanique. We will do more testing soon, before going to #RallyeDeutschland in August with #RDLimited as operating team. More to come.
Some more info from the Rallye-Magazin print version:
-Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser (head of Porsche-Motorsport) is a huge rally fan, has always looked with favor upon the success of Porsche cars in Spain, Germany etc.
-Walliser has officially delegated Mr. Hermann-Josef Steinmetz (project manager for Porsche race cars) to find a base model for a rally car
-The car is based on the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport (385 hp), the roll cage had to be changed, the suspension and trailing arms are reinforced and a sump guard was installed (that's pretty much everything which was changed)
-There will only be an asphalt version of the car
-They will most likely use the gearbox from the production car (six-gear PDK transmission)
-The weight is 1420 kg, that's due to the FIA-requirements (power-to-weight ratio has to be at least 3,4 kg / hp), they didn't want to reduce the number of horsepowers
-There were talks with the FIA to reduce the power-to-weight ratio to make the car more competitive, but until now the FIA wasn't willing to change anything
-They expect to be able to beat R5 cars under ideal conditions
So despite the car is entered by Dumas´team it seems to be an official Porsche project. At least the Cayman was built in Weissach and has the official blessing of Porsche.
big ambitionsQuote:
Originally Posted by JUF
That would be cool. I hope that an important manufacturer like Porsche would have some influence here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
That's splendid! Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
1420 kg is just madness.... and no chance of being competitive - which is probably what the FiA want.....Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
Yes they don't want the GT class to be competitive with the rally class number5. Probably they would lose some manufacturers if they are. That's the admiration for Porsche here entering the "no mans land".Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Romanian driver Florin Tincescu (Abarth 124 Rally) was third overall in Rally Perla Harghitei, a round of Romanian rally championship.
Final results of RALIUL PERLA HARGHITEI 2018:
1. Simone Tempestini/Sergiu Itu (RO) Citroën DS3 R5 1:00.37,5
2. Bogdan Marisca/Sebastian Itu (RO) Ford Fiesta R5 +53,0
3. Florin Tincescu/Alina Pop (RO) Abarth 124 Rally +3.26,4
4. Sebastian Barbu/Marc Banca (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII +3.46,8
5. Valentin Porcisteanu/Dan Dobre (RO) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.25,6
6. Constantin Aur/Silviu Moraru (RO) Skoda Fabia R5 +4.39,9
7. László Kelő-Gere/Ágnes Erdélyi (H) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII +5.40,9
8. Mihai Manole/Florin Dorca (RO) Ford Fiesta R5 +6.23,5
9. Bogdan Nastase/Alexandru Popidan (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +6.24,3
10. Cristian Dolofan/Mihai Sandu (RO) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +6.40,2
https://i2.wp.com/raliulharghitei.ro...00%2C750&ssl=1
Most likely Porsche won’t enter any championship or series; they’re just providing an alternative car to rally costumers, like Abarth did and hopefully so will Alpine.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Last weekend the results of GT cars were unfortunately very bad. There were 3 Abarths competing in Rally di Roma Capitale, the 5th round of European Rally Championship. The best of them was French driver Raphael Astier who finished the rally down in the 35th position, over 21 minutes behind the overall winner, behind many R2 cars. What a disappointment.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/929/4...4d2d1163_b.jpg
Unfortunatelly all three cars had mechanical issues. Raphael was doing great rally and before issues he was between slowest R5 cars, more than minute in front of all 2WD cars. Due to that mechanical issues he lost around 15 minutes... https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/...62&ssGroupId=1Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Dumas testing the Cayman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atid...ature=youtu.be
video by MaxiPixelRallye
Finally an R-GT which looks fast. It would need a bit more power (or less weight) though. And the sound is no match for 911. Anyway I like it.
One detail about the Cayman. Does it have all four wheels same size unlike 911?
To get this class moving and growing, could it be an idea to allow all homologated/approved GT4 cars, and follow the European GT4 regulations found here: https://european.gt4series.com/gb_en/regulations
They use successballast in GT4, I guess that might be tougher to do in a Rallycar, or is that possible?
If possible drivers would have all these cars to choose from:
Nr. Manufacturer Model Since Expiration Developer RACB GT4-012 Aston Martin V8 Vantage GT4 01-04-2009 31-12-2018 Aston Martin RACB GT4-015 Lotus Evora 25-07-2011 31-12-2018 Lotus RACB GT4-019 Ginetta G55 01-04-2014 31-12-2021 Ginetta RACB GT4-021 KTM X-Bow 02-12-2016 31-12-2023 RACB GT4-027 Ford Mustang GT4 01-08-2017 31-12-2024 RACB GT4-028 SIN R1 01-01-2015 31-12-2022 Matech Concepts RACB GT4-MC Maserati Gran Turismo MC GT4 01-04-2016 31-12-2020 RACB GT4-030 McLaren 570S 01-01-2017 31-12-2024 RACB GT4-031 Chevrolet Camaro 01-03-2017 31-12-2024 Pratt & Miller[2] Alpine Alpine A110 Aston Martin Vantage N24 Audi TT Audi R8 Audi Sport BMW BMW M3 GT4 BMW Motorsport[3] BMW M4 BMW Z4 G&A Racing Chevrolet Corvette C6 Callaway Cars[4] Ginetta G50 Ginetta Maserati Maserati Trofeo Porsche 997 Equipe Verschuur[5] Chevrolet Camaro Riley Technologies[6] Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport Porsche Cayman PRO4 GT4 Prosport Performance
Tuthill 911 RGT (basically same 3.8 flat six) also never sound as good as any unrestricted 911. Apparently they’re using larger wheels at the rear, like in the racing car. Biggest doubt on this gorgeous Cayman probably is the PDK gearbox; can it be as effective on a rally as it is on a track?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Another video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvEkxvR5OMY
Yep, allowing GT4 homologations (slightly modified) without the need for a complicated RGT homologation sounds great. A different ballast scale would be needed, but any model final Kg/hp ratio should get a bit bellow the uncompetitive 3,4 RGT current figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Finally some official news:
@PorscheRaces
The Cayman GT4 Clubsport is just a concept car for rallyes. At the German @wrc round Rallye Deutschland 🇩🇪 we will collect feedback from the rallye scene. The decision if a similar car based on a future model could be developed will be made later in the year.
https://twitter.com/PorscheRaces
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkEvJzGX4AEvtp2.jpg
So, this beauty won’t be homologated and will continue to be tested until they’re sure to make a RGT version of (most likely) the future 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport. Hopefully the decision will be positive and they’ll take next monthes to make their car even more competitive. Fingers crossed.
Btw, some info on the 718 Cayman GT4: https://www.motor1.com/news/258615/p...4-spied-naked/
Poor result of Simone Tempestini and his Abarth in Rally Rzeszow - a round of Polish rally championship. He was only 12th overall.
Final results of 2018 Rzeszowski Rally:
1 Griazin/Federow (Škoda Fabia R5): 1:38:25.5
2 Grzyb/Browiński (Škoda Fabia R5): +1:28.9
3 Brzeziński/Kozdroń (Škoda Fabia R5): +3:31.0
4 Poloński/Sitek (Ford Fiesta R5): +3:41.8
5 Marczyk/Gospodarczyk (Škoda Fabia R5): +4:35.7
6 Chuchała/Rozwadowski (Subaru Impreza STi N15): +5:26.7
7 Gabryś/Natkaniec (Ford Fiesta R5): +6:40.8
8 Słobodzian/Dachowski (Subaru Impreza STi N15): +6:55.1
9 Byśkiniewicz/Wisławski (Hyundai i20 R5): +7:00.3
10 Kotarba/Kotarba (Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4): +8:25.2
11 Wróblewski/Spentany Peugeot 208 R2 +11:24.00
12 Tempestini/Itu Abarth 124 Rally +16:22.90
http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/89/ab/16/z237...szowskiego.jpg
He had puncture and problems with windscreen visibility...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
So, after 2nd day in Deutschland, what are the thoughts of the spectators about the new Cayman GT4?
same as 911.Full throttle at straights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Are you in Germany?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii