Kimi's future - No racing in 2010?

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

This is my last one to this thread -

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80553
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The team president (Luca di Montezemolo ) also paid tribute to former driver Kimi Raikkonen, who lost his seat to Alonso and is switching to the World Rally Championship.

"I'm sorry he's not here today," said Montezemolo. (Sure?)

"All the same, I wish to thank him on behalf of all of us for what he achieved in his three years with Ferrari.

"He staked his place in our history by winning the title in his first season, which was partly thanks to help from Felipe, to whom he repaid the compliment the following year.
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It looks more and more that Kimi made a big mistake when helping Massa 2008, because people where saying that he was making a bad job.. and because it ended that he was fired from his job.. ok .. Ferrari paid him 17 million euro Santander money and Kimi went to Rally to 2010 (and is probably back next year) – but it was a treachery from Ferrari … (However nice to hear it from Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo it himself) ..

:(

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Buy a mirror it might help you see the reality from a 2nd less subjective perspective.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

The only accurate part of your post is that he is better off.

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Oh boy you are such a positive poster. Well, projecting your bitterness at a driver you've never met is probably not so bad. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Oh boy you are such a positive poster. Well, projecting your bitterness at a driver you've never met is probably not so bad. :rolleyes:

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I don't think he is criticizing Kimi the man, so I don't see why he should have met him. He's criticizing Kimi the 50 million/year driver whom we all saw underachieving.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I don't think he is criticizing Kimi the man, so I don't see why he should have met him. He's criticizing Kimi the 50 million/year driver whom we all saw underachieving.

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Thanks Ioan, evidently some posters even need the bleeding obvious highlighting and explaining.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Thanks Ioan, evidently some posters even need the bleeding obvious highlighting and explaining.

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You're welcome!

It's always been like this and (with people failing to see the woods because of too many trees in their way), sadly, I doubt it will ever change.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I don't think he is criticizing Kimi the man, so I don't see why he should have met him. He's criticizing Kimi the 50 million/year driver whom we all saw underachieving.

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Correct. Everyone keeps on saying KR is brilliant, but he never has really achieved greatness of any kind in F1. Then come the normal excuses about un-reliable cars, bad luck etc etc. Some think it, but I dont hate Kimi at all, I hate the "he's brilliant" hype around his averageness.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Buy a mirror it might help you see the reality from a 2nd less subjective perspective.

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It was in mirror i was looking.
AND it was "Santander money" not Ferrari money Kimi was paid out with.

and he wasn’t kicked because of dad driving, the reason was solely the money and business.. And now it looks that Schumi are leaving Ferrari too, (and Massa have to make it without his big brother) - so next year Ferrari is without any “ice” from north and even if I never more will like or support Ferrari - it will be interesting to follow Alonso - who want to be a first driver everywhere he is - and “kind” Felipe without his big brother. I have my doubts ..

:)

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Correct. Everyone keeps on saying KR is brilliant, but he never has really achieved greatness of any kind in F1. Then come the normal excuses about un-reliable cars, bad luck etc etc. Some think it, but I dont hate Kimi at all, I hate the "he's brilliant" hype around his averageness.

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If a WDC is average, who is good?

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Originally Posted by F1boat

If a WDC is average, who is good?

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Sure, he did enough to be champion. But you could say he lucked into it, after all, Hamilton and McLaren threw it away, rather than Raikkonen winning it.

Apart from his championship year he's been quick, but otherwise unremarkable given the equipment he has had at his disposal.

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Originally Posted by Dzeidzei

You think Ferrari would have sacked Felipe instead? I seriously doubt that. Santander dictated Kimis departure, period. And Ferrari wanted the Spanish money.

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You will se that they will dictate Massas future role in the team too, a new Barricello I belive.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Have to agree.
If Kimi would have done better than Ferrari would have kept him.

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Schumacher did quite well(to say the least) in 2006, but Luca De montezoo did not let that bother him in pushing him out.
Jean Todt was not exactly an idiot, but he too was slowly pushed out of the F1 team by Luca.
I think it is quite possible that if Massa had not had his accident, it could have just as easily been him pushed out of Ferrari to make way for Lucas lover, alonso (which has obviously been the dream of Luca for a long time).

Hopefully Ferrari have an horrendous season next year and Massa leaves Ferrari to join a team that is not headed by an arrogant .

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Originally Posted by tamburello

If that's so, it was also treacherous of Raikkonen to be taking money under false pretences, since Ferrari clearly thought they were employing a racing driver.

Kimi, it turns out, wasn't bothered about racing.

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I think the idiocy of you is showcased again here. He might be many things, but not bothered about racing?

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Originally Posted by wedge

Does stepping into the factory for a cup of coffee give a driver and extra 3tenths of a second in a race?

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It appears some people here really think that the driver going to the factory means that the aero guys finally will get enough motivation to design a fast car, not a donkey car.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I think the idiocy of you is showcased again here. He might be many things, but not bothered about racing?

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Yes, not interested in racing. He isn't racing in 2010, is he? No. How can somebody who, as you claim, is interested in racing, chose not to?

Oh, and who was it who claim Grosjean was quicker than Alonso?

Now, that was a sure sign of idiocy.

If only I could remember who started that gem of a thread.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Yes, not interested in racing. He isn't racing in 2010, is he?

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Oh, yes he is. In a highly competitive series!

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Originally Posted by henners88

I hate to break it to you mate...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8394585.stm

He may not be racing in F1, but he is racing in an alternative series.

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http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racing?view=uk

Rallying is not Racing.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/racing?view=uk

Rallying is not Racing.

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haha, you owned me here! ;)

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Originally Posted by F1boat

If a WDC is average, who is good?

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Well Button also won a WDC, as did Hill, JV and LH still none of them are considered to be F1 greats.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Sure, he did enough to be champion. But you could say he lucked into it, after all, Hamilton and McLaren threw it away, rather than Raikkonen winning it.

Apart from his championship year he's been quick, but otherwise unremarkable given the equipment he has had at his disposal.

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IMO his best season ever was 2005. And I did cheer for him back then even though he was driving for McLaren ;) .

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well Button also won a WDC, as did Hill, JV and LH still none of them are considered to be F1 greats.

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We have to distinguish good from great. Precious few are the greats, but all champions IMO are very good.

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Originally Posted by ioan

IMO his best season ever was 2005. And I did cheer for him back then even though he was driving for McLaren ;) .

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In my opinion Kimi had a great second part in 2007, and was very, very good in 2003 and 2005. I think that he is very, very good driver.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Schumacher did quite well(to say the least) in 2006, but Luca De montezoo did not let that bother him in pushing him out.

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Sadly the power struggle between Todt and Montezemolo meant that one of his favorites had to go. Michael is Todt's all time favorite driver and Felipe was his protege too.

I'm inclined to believe that MS said the truth when he said that he decided to give Felipe the chance to continue. Maybe MS believed he could snatch the 8th WDC and retire with it just in spite of Luca!

In the end MS left, Todt was pushed out but in the end he made Luca look like a clown and now can hand him his back side on a plate from his FIA president position.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Jean Todt was not exactly an idiot, but he too was slowly pushed out of the F1 team by Luca.

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Sadly. And we saw ho the team management behaved after that.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Hopefully Ferrari have an horrendous season next year and Massa leaves Ferrari to join a team that is not headed by an arrogant .

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I'd rather have Felipe win the title next year. It would feel better even if you don't like Luca and Alonso! ;)

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

It appears some people here really think that the driver going to the factory means that the aero guys finally will get enough motivation to design a fast car, not a donkey car.

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:D Amazing isn't it? ;)

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Originally Posted by henners88

I hate to break it to you mate...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8394585.stm

He may not be racing in F1, but he is racing in an alternative series.

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This would make for a great signature! You're lucky that I like the one I have now better. :p

I didn't want to believe that Luca forced Michael, Ross and Jean out. Sadly, not it seems that this is the ugly truth. I feel very bad :(

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I didn't want to believe that Luca forced Michael, Ross and Jean out. Sadly, not it seems that this is the ugly truth. I feel very bad :(

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Don't worry, it's good that you learned it and accepted it! ;)

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Originally Posted by henners88

Oh really? Not a form of racing eh.. :\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying

It may not be racing in the same fabric as F1, but it is a form of racing where drivers race to beat each others stage times. It involves speed afterall, and includes head to head competition in certain disciplines, not necessarily WRC.. I know wikipedia is fairly uncredible, but the article does use the term "racing" a total of 8 times. I'd be interested to learn their interpretation of this usage. In fact the team Kimi has joined is called "Citroen Racing", so I'm struggling to see how they are allowed to use this term if Rallying is not a form of racing. Your link to the Oxford Dictionary source does not back up your claim I'm afraid.

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk...99s%20official!
Oh dear they used that term "racing" another twice in this one too.. :eek:

I fear you once again jumped on the bandwagon to back up your mate, whilst displaying an exhaustive lack of understanding for what you were contributing to old bean.. I'll let you off though.. ;)

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Whatever people may think of Kimi, he does seem to interest people, even if he himself always looks totally disinterested. :D I still don't understand the bitterness that comes across from the messages of one certain poster.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Oh really? Not a form of racing eh.. :\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rallying

It may not be racing in the same fabric as F1, but it is a form of racing where drivers race to beat each others stage times. It involves speed afterall, and includes head to head competition in certain disciplines, not necessarily WRC.. I know wikipedia is fairly uncredible, but the article does use the term "racing" a total of 8 times. I'd be interested to learn their interpretation of this usage. In fact the team Kimi has joined is called "Citroen Racing", so I'm struggling to see how they are allowed to use this term if Rallying is not a form of racing. Your link to the Oxford Dictionary source does not back up your claim I'm afraid.

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk...99s%20official!
Oh dear they used that term "racing" another twice in this one too.. :eek:

I fear you once again jumped on the bandwagon to back up your mate, whilst displaying an exhaustive lack of understanding for what you were contributing to old bean.. I'll let you off though.. ;)

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I'll take the Oxford dictionary defintion over your every day of the week, month and year.

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Whatever people may think of Kimi, he does seem to interest people, even if he himself always looks totally disinterested. :D I still don't understand the bitterness that comes across from the messages of one certain poster.

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Yes – Kim has his life philosophy… Some people, who are nervy are saying that it's getting even worse when you getting older…
Will see how Kimi take it.. if he will remain an “ice man” also in the future. I hope so..
:)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well Button also won a WDC, as did Hill, JV and LH still none of them are considered to be F1 greats.

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by you maybe, but aren't 3 of the 4 in the drivers top 40 "greatest" driver poll, and their opinion is as good as yours

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Yes, not interested in racing. He isn't racing in 2010, is he? No. How can somebody who, as you claim, is interested in racing, chose not to?

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So if rally is not racing then what is?
Racing - a sport involving races.
Race - a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is fastest over a set course.

So unless my english fails me and I completely misunderstand what a set course means, rallying is indeed racing. That said, Rallying is by far more exciting than F1 and I can easily understand why he would leave a sport such as F1 for a sport that has so much politics and fakeness about it for something better.

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Oh, and who was it who claim Grosjean was quicker than Alonso?

Now, that was a sure sign of idiocy.

If only I could remember who started that gem of a thread.

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"will Grosjean be the third driver to beat Alonso" was my topic, so I asked a question, I did not state it as something that will surely happen.
Do you understand the difference?

The real funny thing is that you attack KR for not bothering about racing, yet when he was taking crazy risks to win a race at Spa last year and not giving up, you were the first to attack him with your typically idiotic topic.

But hey, now you have your beloved alonso, so keep those palms hairy.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Sadly the power struggle between Todt and Montezemolo meant that one of his favorites had to go. Michael is Todt's all time favorite driver and Felipe was his protege too.

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It is quite sad that LDM was so power hungry he failed to realize what is good for the team.

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I'm inclined to believe that MS said the truth when he said that he decided to give Felipe the chance to continue. Maybe MS believed he could snatch the 8th WDC and retire with it just in spite of Luca!

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I dont think that was case, I am pretty sure LDM made his utmost to force MS out.

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In the end MS left, Todt was pushed out but in the end he made Luca look like a clown and now can hand him his back side on a plate from his FIA president position.

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Heres hoping Todt will humiliate the pansy many times.

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Sadly. And we saw ho the team management behaved after that.

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Indeed. Ferrari has clowns as their leaders now. Not that I am bothered by it, I quite enjoy it.

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I'd rather have Felipe win the title next year. It would feel better even if you don't like Luca and Alonso! ;)

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Not going to happen. LDM has played his hand in such a way that if Felipe were to beat Alonso it would humiliate him to the maximum level. I am pretty sure LDM would never allow FM to beat FA. So the worse car they have next year, the better.

I want Felipe out of Ferrari as quickly as possible, why not to Mercedes for example?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Not going to happen. LDM has played his hand in such a way that if Felipe were to beat Alonso it would humiliate him to the maximum level. I am pretty sure LDM would never allow FM to beat FA. So the worse car they have next year, the better. I want Felipe out of Ferrari as quickly as possible, why not to Mercedes for example?

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Agreed - Ferrari boss would look more or less like a fool if Felipe take the title next year.. and I think even if he beat Alonso with 10 points or more.. which means that Felipe has a difficult work to do and it’s not only make the best he can as driver - there is also “the Ferrari Santander politic” to fight against (and unfortunately without Schumi .. this time) .. I like Felipe .. but not Ferrari (any more) - so I can say that i’m sorry for what happened in Brazil 2008 GP in the last curve when Felipe lost the title to Hamilton - because the risk is that that was the only year he had a chance to do it and it probably will never come back ..

It will be interesting to see if Felipe can keep his staff (eg. engineers) or if Alonso gets the best ones approximately same way as Felipe did 2008 - I must say that I have my doubts ..

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Originally Posted by F1boat

If a WDC is average, who is good?

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I'm not refering to good drivers, but great ones.

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

It will be interesting to see if Felipe can keep his staff (eg. engineers) or if Alonso gets the best ones approximately same way as Felipe did 2008 - I must say that I have my doubts ..

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Felipe had teh same engineers in 2008 as he had in 2007. You're posting rubbish, again.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Felipe had teh same engineers in 2008 as he had in 2007. You're posting rubbish, again.

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Sure. You are right Massa had the same staff 2008 than 2007 - a mistake from me - it was Kimi did lose his race engineer 2009 .. and 2008 was Felipe’s year.. (Because Kimi had an order to help Felipe, as back pay for the end of 2007 - as we know) ..

However.. "Luca The Boss of Ferrari" is today speaking (too) much b*** s*** about Ferraris latest world champion.. Kimi Raikkonen.

Ferrari Boss didn't never understand “what kind” on human Kimi is and he maybe never didn’t like him or even wanted him to Ferrari – it was Todt who tog Kimi to Ferrari..

I think he wanted a new Schumacher to Ferrari.. but today Mr. Luca di Montezemolo maybe has started understand that the Schumacher in his imaginations newer have existed. Now he is speaking that it’s “Schumacher’s twin brother” which is leaving Ferrari and taking seat in a Mercedes.. not the really one ??

Now is Santander money and Alonso “the saviour” of Ferrari.

(Brawn, Todt, Schumi with his help driver Barrichello and Kimi are out and what Chris Dyer will do next year is not clear for me but how ever he is the only one of “the wining teams personalities” who left) and now Luca The Boss of Ferrari speaking b*** s*** of Kimi and dreaming that it’s “Schumacher’s twin brother” who is leaving them - and same tame giving credit to Santander because they gave Ferrari money to kick the man he don’t like (and probably never did) Kimi Raikkonen – but who was in many easy the best driver in the greed..

Never more Ferrari for me
:s mokin:

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

Sure. You are right Massa had the same staff 2008 than 2007 - a mistake from me - it was Kimi did lose his race engineer 2009 .. and 2008 was Felipe’s year.. (Because Kimi had an order to help Felipe, as back pay for the end of 2007 - as we know) ..

However.. "Luca The Boss of Ferrari" is today speaking (too) much b*** s*** about Ferraris latest world champion.. Kimi Raikkonen.

Ferrari Boss didn't never understand “what kind” on human Kimi is and he maybe never didn’t like him or even wanted him to Ferrari – it was Todt who tog Kimi to Ferrari..

I think he wanted a new Schumacher to Ferrari.. but today Mr. Luca di Montezemolo maybe has started understand that the Schumacher in his imaginations newer have existed. Now he is speaking that it’s “Schumacher’s twin brother” which is leaving Ferrari and taking seat in a Mercedes.. not the really one ??

Now is Santander money and Alonso “the saviour” of Ferrari.

(Brawn, Todt, Schumi with his help driver Barrichello and Kimi are out and what Chris Dyer will do next year is not clear for me but how ever he is the only one of “the wining teams personalities” who left) and now Luca The Boss of Ferrari speaking b*** s*** of Kimi and dreaming that it’s “Schumacher’s twin brother” who is leaving them - and same tame giving credit to Santander because they gave Ferrari money to kick the man he don’t like (and probably never did) Kimi Raikkonen – but who was in many easy the best driver in the greed..

Never more Ferrari for me
:s mokin:

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For me the crimson cars will always be special, but it is very difficult to like the current management. I think that Felipe is the next to go... :(

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

However.. "Luca The Boss of Ferrari" is today speaking (too) much b*** s*** about Ferraris latest world champion.. Kimi Raikkonen.

Ferrari Boss didn't never understand “what kind” on human Kimi is and he maybe never didn’t like him or even wanted him to Ferrari – it was Todt who tog Kimi to Ferrari..

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Don't mind Luca's words, he's an a$$hole.
He pushed out Todt, Brawn and Schumacher, so getting rid of Kimi was even easier given his unexpected poor results.

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

Never more Ferrari for me
:s mokin:

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IMO you shouldn't have been a Ferrari supporter in the first place, Ferrari isn't a team for people who support specific drivers and such cases usually end in tears.

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Originally Posted by henners88

This kind of dinosaur styled statement just demonstrates a need for individualism IMO... :rolleyes:

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And proves without doubt that you are not, nor never have been (despite what you have claimed), nor never will be, a Ferrari fan.

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Originally Posted by henners88

You're absolutely right... :up:
I've been a Ferrari supporter, and I'm not particularly bothered if this is not seen as a diehard, allegiant stance on the terraces at Monza, but I have taken pleasure in seeing Ferrari win in the past. I have no desire to be accepted into the fraternity and be called a fan thank you very much. :)

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Then do us a favour and do not attempt to understand the Tifosi or to cast a judgement upon them, as you are not qualified or knowledgable enough to contemplate what it takes to be a Tifoso.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I just hope to god that some of the sentiments displayed on this very forum is not an accurate reading of the level of acumen required to be a Tifoso.

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You talk about acumen?!
Try starting with learning that God is written with a capital G.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You talk about acumen?!
Try starting with learning that God is written with a capital G.

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All depends on what "god" you are talking about, and whether you belive in such foolishness. Oh that's right, there is one and only one. All others are mere inposters right?

Gary

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Originally Posted by F1boat

For me the crimson cars will always be special, but it is very difficult to like the current management. I think that Felipe is the next to go... :(

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Yes - i'm afraid you are right, Felipe is the week link now when Schumi isn't there any more..

:!: :?:

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Originally Posted by ioan

IMO you shouldn't have been a Ferrari supporter in the first place, Ferrari isn't a team for people who support specific drivers and such cases usually end in tears.

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Yes - I would never sell my soul to a team like FERRARI.. IMO it's nor a honest team – has never been - so why i should sell my soul to this "idea"? It's really not worth it, when looking in Ferrari history and unfortunately it’s not either getting better rather in opposite direction..

:s mokin