What Happens Next?

Sanguin, you don't strike me as a true fan. Instead, with every post you remind me of the ugliness that destroyed CART from within and the reason why the OWRS era and 2007, in particular, has come out so badly. This is painful given how much I enjoyed CART and had anticipated a rebrith with Champ Car. It seems you have now appeared from nowhere to demand that we all play the fool like you and not recognize the obvious fact that the Champ Car World Series isn't going to turn out well in the end and that the end may now be approaching. There was probably a propaganda enthusiast like you in a certain bunker in Berlin making sure everyone thought correct thougts before the little house painter took the coward's exit. This will be the kind of mini legacy you leave here. Cheering while others are contemplating the loss and consequence of what has just happened. It is not in the least bit attractive and accomplishes the opposite of what you intend.

Racing is ultimately a battle between realists. I think the whole point of this thread has been to realistically discuss what happens next. You have hijacked this conversation and it is too bad the rest of us have indulged you so I suggest we all stop playing your game.

Good luck on Fantasy Island Mr. Sanguin. You are a modern version of poor little Tattoo yelling "da plane... da plane" in the delusional hope that Kevin Kalkhoven and his Gulfstream will swoop down and save you from your self-inflcted humiliation.

As for what I have posted here, many of my "unfounded" rumors have credible sources just like those who told me last year that Denver was a joke, China was a disaster in the making, Phoenix would never happen and the Vegas GP would not be Fueled by Visa but would instead set a new standard for money lost on an American street race.

Indeed, the IRL has no bearing on the OWRS plan because it is clear that those who own ChampCar do not have a plan nor do they choose to deal with reality. They would rather do as you do and try to sell a delusional fantasy wrapped in falsehoods.

The question I have after following this conversation from the begining is what happens next here? Do we all just post in circles around Sangin's illogical arguments or do we stay on the subect?

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Originally Posted by tbyars

Well, here is my opinion.
Once upon a time, there was a poster who used the screen name Zero.

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tbyars, every user forum on any topic (not just racing forums) has at least one Zero. They should take the adult beverage out of their sippy cup and step away from the keyboard before adult supervision takes it away.

They are never wrong, attack any opinion not their own, always need the last word, and generally make fools of themselves. Since they hide behind the anonymity of a screen name they seem to think they can act like an expert and no one will know. The Zeros of the world think they are so smart because eventually no one contradicts them anyone and they can sometimes dominate a "discussion".

But every forum, regardless of topic, has people who do know what is going on in that particular arena. Eventually, the people who know just go away or shut up, just as they ignore the noisy child yelling "wolf". That forum becomes stale and useless until the Zero finds another message board somewhere where they can take their "act", spew more useless drivel, and annoy more people.

Without an audience, they have no purpose.

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Originally Posted by Starter

This thread had degenerated into nothing but back and forth arguments between posters, about posters. Let me remind everyone about the "ignore" function. It works well and you should use it if someone's posts bother you.

If this stuff continues, I'm going to start handing out penalties for people.

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Oh please, oh please don't do that! I'm really enjoying watching this debate from the sidelines. Besides his opinion on the current state of Champ Car, I'm waiting for Sanguin's (aka Zero, Cache, etc.) opinion on the Iraq War, universal health care and U of Michigan's football team. :eek:

Ok, back on topic.

If CCWS is going to go after the European market with a (currently) spec racing series, focusing mainly on street circuits and road races, how does that make CCWS distinct from say GP2 and A1GP? They really need to bring ovals back in order to differentiate themselves from the rest of the major European series, otherwise CCWS's grand scheme will get lost with the rest of the F1 feeder series.

Continuing with the GP2 and A1GP line, how does the European and worldwide tv packages of those two series compare to that of CCWS? Are teams subsidised in those series, and do the series/teams operate at a profit? I don't know the answer to those questions but if they do not, how does CCWS expect to buck that trend?

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Originally Posted by Andrewmcm

Ok, back on topic.

If CCWS is going to go after the European market with a (currently) spec racing series, focusing mainly on street circuits and road races, how does that make CCWS distinct from say GP2 and A1GP? They really need to bring ovals back in order to differentiate themselves from the rest of the major European series, otherwise CCWS's grand scheme will get lost with the rest of the F1 feeder series.

Continuing with the GP2 and A1GP line, how does the European and worldwide tv packages of those two series compare to that of CCWS? Are teams subsidised in those series, and do the series/teams operate at a profit? I don't know the answer to those questions but if they do not, how does CCWS expect to buck that trend?

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I believe that GP2 is full of 'non-name' drivers who pay to race. A1GP is a Mid-East sheikh/prince owned/funded series, that can't be on a commercial footing.

As someone who only really became aware of AOWR when 'our Nige' whooped everyone in '93, but then enjoyed the series (CART) from then on, and then Champ Car when the change happened, (personally I never thought much of IRL - they seemed to race on strange ovals!) I still think the only sane thing to do is get to a combined series ASAFP; however I can't think how this could ever happen

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Originally Posted by garyshell

I would love to know they are in the black, nothing would make me happier.

Gary

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Originally Posted by sanguin

If CC being solvent makes you mad, I can't help you.

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I guess you didn't read my earlier post did you? We're done.

Gary

Could this rumor posted below on AR1 be what happens next? Despite all the OWRS owner group's spin to the contrary and bashing of Laguna Seca's crowds, I have heard that San Jose is a big money loser and is on shaky ground. On second thought, most of California is on shaky ground! It is funny how Mark Cippolini flip flops his spin to suit whatever favors ChampCar. One day San Jose is the model of success and now the next day it is dissed as he justifies the potential move back to Laugua Seca, which was ridiculed for not promoting. I wonder what kind of boffo sanction fee SCRAMP will pay or will it be another track rental/self promo deal?

"Champ Car might move SJ race to Laguna Seca
Rumor has it that Champ Car may axe the San Jose street race from its schedule after three years and that Champ Car could move the race back to Laguna Seca. The Mickey Mouse San Jose track was too small from the outset to make for good racing and too small to erect enough grandstands with viewing areas conducive to the paying customer's enjoyment."

Okay, I am back from the cyber dead but only to share the following from Gordon Kirby who does a remarkable job of summing up American open wheel racing's current plight and the prospect of San Jose being canceled later this week. Here is the link to today's GK offering:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie...t_is_no89.html

So what happens next?

[OT]Tap had a song called "Back from the Dead"[/OT]

The last bit in Kirby's article only painted what we knew has been going on for the last decade: the France family planned a monopoly of American racing. Possibly (cue B-movie-type mad scientist) the world! But I don't see nascar knocking F1 out of the way....

Still and all, they've done a good job of exploiting the split (and putting on my tinfoil hat, causing it so they could exploit it), and it's nearly certain that they won't let the irl get too big.

What happens next? irl completes its morph into CART II, and the France family buys TG out so they can be the Vince McMahon of the racing world. nascar becomes WWRE, Inc. (World Wide Racing Entertainment).

After that, they go after that punk, Rupert Murdoch.

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Originally Posted by DrJackMiller

Okay, I am back from the cyber dead but only to share the following from Gordon Kirby who does a remarkable job of summing up American open wheel racing's current plight and the prospect of San Jose being canceled later this week. Here is the link to today's GK offering:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie...t_is_no89.html

So what happens next?

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Honestly, DrJack, how many times do you have to ask that? We've all answered that one way or another. What exactly are you looking for with that question and what has been lacking in any answer you have seen? Any answer you get is going to be speculation since whe don't know what will happen until it happens.

Perhaps my answer (among all the answers I and others have given you) is "What should happen next?"

That was a good column by the very solid and consistent Gordon Kirby. France's lasy comment is telling when he warns that Indy Car racing could get ruined. Of course, what he didn't say is equally important, that NASCAR would benefit from the split, smart man that France was. But even he couldn't have anticipated this nightmare.

That said, as for what happens next, I will repeat what I've said elsewhere on this forum site: You saw a preview of what happens next at Montreal during the Busch race at the Villenueve roadcourse. Drivers in NASCAR from all sorts of foriegn backgrounds, racing one another in an exciting even, and, unlike Formula 1, running hard, braking at turns, and passing one another at many different points along the track. NASCAR is already in Mexico, bought CASCAR, and came to Canada for the first time with one of its premier series, and it's known they are examining Europe. Montreal is your motorsports chrystal ball, DrJack.