Same Sex Marriage

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17th December 2012, 20:14
donKey jote

it's changed slightly... now it's also
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17th December 2012, 20:38
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezza

It is to be expected, as kids will pick on children they see as vulnerable. Now you would say thats the parents fault. But 30 children in a class, and 1 has two fathers - once the kids get to the age where they "sort of" understand this, then they will have a field day. And no amount of parental guidance will stop this. Kids pick on kids already, why would this be any different? However, by allowing same-sex adoption - you are creating another option for bullying, so for the good of the child same-sex adoption cases should be looked at carefully. Men/women couples should be given preference (quality pertaining of course, but this veto process is done anyway) - as this will give the child the BEST chance of success.

I hate to use the term "survival of the fittest" but school really is like that, I've been through it!

How does it cast doubt on his parenting skills? What ARE you on about?! Are you suggesting that he should want his children to be homosexual so that they can be be "different" and "individual"? I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

Sounds like SGWilko is doing a good job of being a father. If many same-sex couples have the attitude of you, BDunnell, I doubt they would be brought up correctly - as you are too bitter towards people of differing opinions, and that would impact upon the children.

All nonsense, as I would expect from you. Your first paragraph is especially absurd. Bullying is no-one's fault other than the bully's. As a right-winger, I presume you believe in people taking personal responsibility? Well, why not apply it in this case?

I resent being told by someone whose opinions I consider ill-developed that my sexuality alone renders me inferior at anything.
17th December 2012, 20:39
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

And not every child that lives in an adopted family with same sex parents either?

I find it unacceptable that we should deny a Child a normal happy family life just because of a fear that a Bully could intimidate them. That strikes me as punishing the victim.

Perhaps the reason that this potential bullying might take place is because there has been such discrimination and ignorance of gay and lesbian couples generally. Perhaps the Church refusing to treat people different because of their sexuality would be a huge step in breaking down these unfair barriers. Perhaps one day we might be surprised that this was such a big deal.

Perhaps... we can hope.

I couldn't agree more. The backward, unenlightened thinking that accompanies this topic is unsurprising to some extent, but largely just saddening.
17th December 2012, 22:39
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

I quite agree. But the fact that a child finds him/herself in a position to be adopted suggests that already, this notion of a happy family has been taken away.

However, I take issue that you suggest anyone is denying a same sex couple be allowed to adopt. I just don't agree with it (as I don't agree with a church marriage as also discussed previously) because of the fundamental issues and hurdles that are thrown in the way, on top of the upheaval of being (in the position of) adopted in the first place.

Sorry, it wasn't designed to be an insult or insinuation and I apologise if it came across as such.

Personally, I agree with the main thrust of your point. If all other conditions are identical, it is better for the Child, IMHO, to grow up with both a positive male and a female role model. That is not any sort of slight to same sex partners but I feel that it is less complicated for the child, as you have said, and also a male and female bring different strengths and benefits to a childs development. This is looking purely from the childs side.

However, as I have said, there are thousands of Children out there that can be adopted or fostered and it is better to have a loving household for them to go to rather than worry about the sexuality of the parents.
18th December 2012, 07:55
gadjo_dilo

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, there aren't many other rights similarly denied — or any, come to think of it. It is somewhat infuriating that this particular right is denied on the basis of meaningless, semantic arguments relating to the Bible and suchlike, given that same-sex marriage would have no practical consequences whatsoever. As I said earlier, laws should only be made for practical reasons. This is not the case with the ban on same-sex marriage.

Infuriating.....
But as far as I remember you ( and most of the fellow forumers ) don't believe in God.
Then where this anger come from? And then why should do 2 people ( homo or hetero ) marry at all?

P.S. I reckon my english is poor and I understand you're a sort of master of the words. I might me confusing the meaning of two words: marriage and wedding. In my mind marriage can be civil or/and religious, wedding is only in front of God.
18th December 2012, 08:15
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Sorry, it wasn't designed to be an insult or insinuation and I apologise if it came across as such.

Personally, I agree with the main thrust of your point. If all other conditions are identical, it is better for the Child, IMHO, to grow up with both a positive male and a female role model. That is not any sort of slight to same sex partners but I feel that it is less complicated for the child, as you have said, and also a male and female bring different strengths and benefits to a childs development. This is looking purely from the childs side.

However, as I have said, there are thousands of Children out there that can be adopted or fostered and it is better to have a loving household for them to go to rather than worry about the sexuality of the parents.

Hey Knockie, panic ye not, for that was more to enforce my own viewpoint, for those that struggle with it - you have no need to apologise as you have not insulted anyone, let alone me.

But the last sentence of your second paragraph is the bit that I think gets lost, and some have not and do not wish, to consider - i.e. how does all this affect the child. Sometimes I think there are some that get too wrapped up in their own selfish need for a notion of equality that has the potential to steamroller roughshod over the needs of the child(ren).
18th December 2012, 08:19
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Infuriating.....
But as far as I remember you ( and most of the fellow forumers ) don't believe in God.
Then where this anger come from? And then why should do 2 people ( homo or hetero ) marry at all?

P.S. I reckon my english is poor and I understand you're a sort of master of the words. I might me confusing the meaning of two words: marriage and wedding. In my mind marriage can be civil or/and religious, wedding is only in front of God.

Well, I only speak English, and I completely understood your post.
18th December 2012, 08:35
gadjo_dilo

Interesting the way most of you see the kids issue....
As if a kid might be affected only because the other kids would bully him and he has no his own needs and desires. That sometimes might don't match the idea of 2 parents of same sex.

Also interesting that when we debated the religion topics some of you say that a kid shouldn't be raised in a certain religion but be left to grow up and choose what suites him.
Isn't the same possibility that a kid raised by a same sex couple couldn't be happy with this alternative?
18th December 2012, 08:38
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

However, as I have said, there are thousands of Children out there that can be adopted or fostered and it is better to have a loving household for them to go to rather than worry about the sexuality of the parents.

Death of parents excepted, why are there so many unwanted children. There is a serious education issue here IMO.
18th December 2012, 08:42
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

Also interesting that when we debated the religion topics some of you say that a kid shouldn't be raised in a certain religion but be left to grow up and choose what suites him.
Isn't the same possibility that a kid raised by a same sex couple couldn't be happy with this alternative?

Religion is a choice, or it should be. Can you chose your parents? For a child that has been abandoned, someone is chosing the parents for them. That can only ever be the equivalent of 'making the best of a bad job' IMO.

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