I remember back in 2013 (I think?) they drove in Finland until late Saturday but I think Thursday was a full on day, and they did the same thing with Monte-Carlo the following year.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
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I remember back in 2013 (I think?) they drove in Finland until late Saturday but I think Thursday was a full on day, and they did the same thing with Monte-Carlo the following year.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
I'm not sure how the short period of longer, more characterful rallies in the early/mid 2010s, seemingly pushed by Jean Todt, came to be deemed a failure and we ended up with the mindset they have now? To my mind it was part of the momentum the WRC built up around that time in terms of interest, along with VW and Hyundai joining, before launching into the 2017 WRCar era. We're now back to the mid 2000s, with formulaic convenient itineraries which give the impression of allowing the manufactures/promoter to just go through the motions of fulfilling their obligation to do another rally...
Obviously, the current formats are cheaper. But there comes a point when you prune the things so much that you have to ask, what have we got left and what is it worth?
I can honestly say my interest in the WRC has never been lower (since I began to follow it properly), I've barely even followed the results this year. It's not like I've lost interest in rallying, I'll have attended around a dozen national rallies here in the UK by the end of the year, but I just feel largely indifferent about the WRC lately, I can't even believe it or understand it myself really, as pre-2020 I imagine I'd have been considered one of the hardcore. Inevitably the loss of Rally GB has been a big factor too though, as following the WRC, everything led to attending that each year.
This utter tripe from Abiteboul sounds just as bad as Neuville’s ideas:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abite...d-modernizing/
This idea that ‘fan engagement’ automatically adds some value to the sport is nonsense. Lets have fans tweeting with a hashtag where there favourite driver can cut - no bloody thank you Cyril.
I even think the Power Stage is pointless as it creates this whole problem around Sundays being too boring. I can remember watching early-2000s Rally GBs where there’d still be a good 100+km to go on Sunday and no one complained that there wasn’t some excitement building up to that last stage. The Power Stage just feels too standardised and clinical, it’s a bit like DRS in F1 where creating more overtakes is meant to cure all ills but actually results in less excitement when everything becomes the same each round.
Interesting comment from Cyril to Estonian media that he thinks they let Ott go too easily and they are closely watching him this season
Well they didn't per say have a team principal, just Deputy Team Director Julien Moncet at the helm. In all honesty it would be interesting to see Ott & Neuville switch cars but that's highly unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
It seems they've heard all the stupid ideas and are going to go with them next year, some of them anyhow, I was kidding when I said the next thing we know they'll bring back the qualifying stage but apparently they aren't: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/w...2024/10499968/
Also, I wasn't aware the post-event press conference was live-streamed, did anybody here see it?
I did not see it live but later and I found it a very good idea.
I’m not sure about the early 2000’s Rally GB’s. There were a few dreary Sunday mornings up in Resolven and Margam etc watching not a lot as everyone was driving for a finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
I’ve skipped Sunday a couple of times on the later Rally GB’s as Brenig and Alwen were a bit boring and there was not much to get excited about on the leaderboard.
I think something different is required for Sunday, but how to go about it. The live TV element constrains a lot in terms of timing etc.
I'm a bit surprised that they have better viewing figures for the Sunday stages. They usually start very early in the morning, plus most fans know its often just cruising before the PS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
With them discussing the points on offer, maybe awarding an extra couple for all Sunday stage wins will be considered ?
Why not do what the BTCC and some other race championships do and make it three events in the weekend? Give championship points for the classification on Friday night. Start a new event with a fresh set of points for Saturday and do the same again on Sunday. You wouldn't need a power stage and your restart lists could be the championship positions based on the points at the end of the last leg. You also wouldn't need SupeRally or Rally2 penalties as anyone who doesn't finish one of the legs wouldn't get any points for that leg but could start the next one just the same as everyone else.
It might be a bit crazy, but sometimes the wild ideas morph into something good.
The WEC had years of stagnation when manufacturers pulled out; I don't recall any panic, and mad ideas/ gimmicks to improve the show. Whereas the WRC does the opposite....panics and wants to change the DNA of the sport......and it very rarely works. And then we're left with a watered down product, which offers very little to manufacturers.......
So, the WEC has been rewarded by attracting lots of new manufacturers, the WRC is still groping around not knowing what to do....and coming up with bizarre, short term ideas. It won't end well......
Some of regional rally championships use day points and have for many years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
It's not at all a foreign concept.
Three events over a weekend, or points given for each leg, cant be done if we want to keep the endurance element of the sport which has always been fundamental.
WRC and other rallies have already been watered down enough, becoming more and more like rally-sprints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Combine the two, points for each day, but also for whole rally?
why impossible? it's enough to mix it up... just keep the actual ystem + 5point for leg. it's just colliding with power stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...2025/10500280/
Hopefully Michelin will get it back, 15th of September is the deadline and they’ll announce it on the 19th of October.
I somehow doubt Michelin are interested due to the current state of the WRC especially rally 1, also the tender should just say : the ones who pay us the most will get the tender and nothing else..Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Stupid rule. Open the competition to all tyres.
It’s like AMSS said, it’s all about the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Exactly, the WEC listened to the manufactures and worked together with IMSA to come up with an affordable and transferable rule set and they have been rewarded with huge manufacture interest and participation.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
They have benefitted from the ACO (Le Mans Organsiers) being far more open to thinking about the wider Sportscar family rather than just their own event, previously they used the fact the LM24 was the reason most manufactures even bothered with sportscars to wield their power over the WEC and IMSA which in turn made the series unsustainable.
They haven’t changed the format of their races to suit the ‘modern’ viewer, they have just created a cost effective rule set.
I believe the WRC has the same ability, there are brands that will come if they can settle on a sensible way forward that is cost effective. I don’t believe there is much fundamentally wrong with the WRC, it’s just too expensive to compete for its value in the market place.
If the stakeholders can come up with a technical rule set that is relevant enough and cost effective, I’m sure it will succeed. If the WRC has 4 active brands with a mandate to provide customer cars, very quickly there will be 20+ cars competing and then they have something to sell.
The current Rally1 rules for WRC came from the manufacturers. They wanted to run prototypes, like in sportscar racing, because it was cheaper for them than homologating production cars. Manufacturers outside the current three were also consulted. It hasn't increased the entries, though.
Are you suggesting that ACM (organisers of Monte Carlo) should have a similar say in WRC to that of ACM is WEC? Would that result in a more "manufacturer friendly" rule set?
I think the sport needs to look at all the mixed messaging it puts out there as well as thinking about the machinery.
The recent Goodwood Festival of Speed in the UK saw all 3 WRC manufacturers present for the first time since 2019. At the FOS one of the main features was all the cars performing donuts as part of their runs/displays to the delight of the crowds. What happens when that happens on or after the finish of a WRC round? A fine for the driver...You have the current and probably 2023 WRC Champion competing in Drifting seen as probably the biggest fan draw away for rallying yet bringing some of the that raw/outlaw appeal that supposedly draws in a lot of the WRC’s target demographic, is actively discouraged. Way back in the 70s and 80s Rally Portugal featured a stage at Estoril race circuit and after the main rally there was a “gymkhana” type event for the crews, even some of the team’s service barges took part! Why couldn’t something like that take place on the odd event during the year? Would be far better than the current arrangements.
Trying to preach the sustainability gospel then allowing the teams to drag 3 storey pre-fab buildings around the globe seems bizarre. To then say that these buildings are stopping fan access and start talking of “grid walks” so the fans can get up close is just plain misguided. I’m lucky enough to be able to remember when servicing took place where ever it could and there was no need to worry about access and whilst I appreciate that those were “different” times it still seems like a massive own goal.
As for the tv/online coverage WRC+ is patently not fit for purpose and is purely just another cash making exercise for the promotor. The gormless end of stage interview format and lack of outside cameras on events just fails to excite. I’d rather wait for footage from the likes of Passats de Canto for my fill than watch endless in-car but appreciate not everyone has the patience/attention span that I do.
Yes, i remember that round, but can anyone of the manu's or FIA says this ended as a sucsess?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
Hardly.
No new manu's, uninterested competition, less fans, no privateers (good ones), nothing.
Yes, the cars are incredible spectacular, but that is not what fans or other manu's really want, obviously.
Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk
Which is pretty damning - and tells you all you need to know. The WRC offers very little for manufacturers....whereas other series do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
When new rules (Rally1) have many things common with previous ones the existing manus have a big starting advantage, which is one of the reasons new manus are mostly interested in joinnig when there is a big rule change.
For WRC17 to Rally1 transition I would expect the engine rules had a lot to say. Current manus have 5+++ years experience running 1.6 turbos and there was a deadline for freezed homologation in mid 2021.
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Sure this could be overcome if a manu has strong will (money) to join, but at the same time no manu atm is focused on trying to sell hybrids alone (only Toyota, but they were already in and even they are moving to trying to sell EVs).
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I said it before that the hybrids were simply too late, should have come in 2020 latest. If they did there was a chance for Skoda and for Citroen staying.
As said multiple times this is not something new. Rally has been behind the trend during all major engine changes last 20 years. First WRC/Gr N was running turbos when no roadcars had it, then they moved to S2000 N/A engines just as all manus started downsizing. Now they went for hybrid just as manus are going to EVs.
No, the ACM don’t have enough sway over the WRC to shape the rules. The ACO in the past did have that over the WEC (or the other series that pre-dated it) because their event was essentially 75% of the championship in marketing terms. They would often decide on a rule set that was a technology advancing one, which comes at a cost, in the case of LMP1, a very large one. Nowadays, the ACO are much more on board with the whole global system of sportscars and are much more in harmony with the WEC and also IMSA. LMDh and Hypercar are far from technology driven categories, the hybrid isn’t really a performance part, it’s just there for marketing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
It would be better for the tyre manufacturers too. Pirelli could brag about beating their competitors instead of just being famous for puncturing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Ah, so you've been watching the MTB World Cup......they've had a few there as well.....cost Evie the win in Nove Mesto.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
No, just rallying!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
But would it be better for the sport? How many teams would get a tyre sponsorship deal? How many tyre manufacturers would want to get into a development war. If "brand X" tyres had an exclusive deal with one team and their tyres were much better than the rest, where would that leave the other teams? How much would the teams without a deal have to pay for tyres compared with now?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Opening up to all tyres might only work if you make all tyres available to all teams and ban any links between tyre manufacturers and teams. Would the teams be intersted in this? Without knowing details of the current tyre supply deal, we can't say.
You can say the same thing about suspension, turbos, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Boyd
Why not have all the teams use the same engines and bodys, only strap a different badge on the front?
Competition between manufacturers always improves the final product
Recently we had tire competition with DMACK 2014-2017 and before that with Pirelli until end of 2006.
The overall effect wasn't positive.
Yes you had some positive effect like DMACK paying for Tanak's and in 2017 Evans starts but overall it reduced the competition.
The reason was that one tire was always significantly better in one set of conditions. To the point that it got boring.
DMACK made the tire better on wet+cold gravel, so in GB you had one rally for DMAC(Evans) and one for others.
Before that Michelin was much better on dry tarmac so Pirelli (Subarus) were basically always on last places on tarmac. When it rain d Pirelli was much better, so every stage was Subaru 1-2.
Thing is tire manus even did this on purpose (certainly DMACK did). Making their tires much better in specific conditions to guarantee a good result on at least one rally, rather then trying to match overall.
In a field with too few cars, this kind of "automatic" differences made for an even narrower field and fewer close fights.
At least in WRC2 we lost the competition. Why they oblige one/two round teams to use Pirelli? That's non sense.
There is another side of this as well, the manufactorers especially in F1 when they had Bridgestone and Michelin at the same time weren`t too excited because at the the post race press reports they spoke more about if the winner was on Bridgestone or Michelin, not if the winner was a Ferrari or a Renault as example, especially the Rally 1 teams might be worried about this. The tire manufactorers again would probably love this (at least the winners)Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I like when Michelin and now Pirelli commemorate the x win in WRC. They run alone... what stat is relevant?
As always every year during rally Finland the rumors start
Ogier or Evans to Hyundai?
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/ar...medium=twitter
They seem certain Hyundai wants 4 cars? Or do they mean 4 drivers changing in 3 cars like now?
Hyundai has 3 "problems":
- 3rd car
Is Suninen a good longer term solution? (too early to tell) if so paired with Sordo or even alone? Is Sordo still good enough? ( It looked like that in Portugal but since then it was quite bad again.)
- Title candidate that can challenge Rovanpera.
Neuville imo just isn't up for it. They can hope Lappi improves further and becomes one.
- Young driver with good potential. Imo Lindholm is not the one. He ended in Hyundai mostly because nobody better (Solberg or Pajari) was interested.
Ogier would fit in the 3rd car, pairing with Suninen, or for title challenge, but I kinda doubt he is interested in that. Evans would fit as fulltime "3rd" car.
Toyota has a potential problem though. Katsuta is not good enough for 3rd car. I thought Solberg would go there, but lately Pajari seems more likely (full season Rally2 and some Rally1 starts). If Toyota then loses one of Ogier/Evans , manu title starts to look difficult for them. Even with Rovanpera dominating.
Also. Juohki reporting in Finnish media that Suninen has a contract also for next year with Hyundai, 7 rallies
That would imo rule out any chance for Evans switching. Ogier to pair him up would still work.
No facts here, just my thoughts. I don't know who has contracts and how long they are.
# Toyota
* Rovanperä - I don't think he leaves Toyota. Everything works for him, can do drifting (and maybe something extra with Toyota).
* Ogier - he drives when he sees possibility to win. I don't think he sees point to jump to Hyndai and taking risk that he does not match with the car.
* Evans - if Toyota provides him new contract, why he should leave? He does not have good season, but currently he is 2nd in the standings.
* Takamoto - no moves, the question from team point of view should be - should they use him in separate team like last year or a point scorer for the main team. It may open up one (part time) position.
# Hyndai
* Neuville - hard to believe he moves anywhere
* Lappi - he seems to match with Hyundai well, 4 podiums from last 5 rallies is good stability.
* Suninen - he needs to prove himself to have full-time drive. Important rally ahead.
* Sordo - too old to drive, too young to retire? :) Not good season so far.
* Lindholm - at the moment hard to see him as one of the factory point scorer driver
# M-Sport
* Tänak - no-one knows. 2 podiums from 8 rallies is the lowest from top6 drivers (Rovanperä 5 + 3 times 4th, Evans 3 + 3 times 4th, Neuville 5, Ogier 3 (wins), Lappi 4). He needs quite some turn around from last 5 rallies to stay in WRC and or in M-Sport. 25 points from 104 is collected from PowerStages.
* Loubet - by current speed, he needs to buy his seat or is he investment project for M-Sport?