True, they have slots for five cars in the service park, but I have assumed it has been for a future customer car...Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
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True, they have slots for five cars in the service park, but I have assumed it has been for a future customer car...Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
If you look back at his wins, when was the last time he won on gravel?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Argentina 2019. Good point. No wins after the Chile crash...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
But during 14 months from Argentina 2017 to Sardinia 2018 he won five gravel rallies and Sweden.
Wow, didn’t even think about this. That’s a long gap from last gravel winQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
But then again, Tänaks last tarmac win is also from 2019, Germany
Maybe it will change this week? Who knows
And Evans is yet to win a tarmac round at all (was close in Corsica 2019)
And Croatia 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
yep, i should have elaborate more. I'm not saying is generally bad in that surface, just that a little lack in some surface made huge difference between winner/runner up for the championship. of course every driver has strong and weak rallies, but if one has an average non-top3 rally somewhere is already a big deficit (championship wise)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
yes, me too, but still related to keeping a second team, i assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Difference being, Neuville was in the same car (team) until Monte-Carlo this year, Tänak switched from a tarmac killer to...a Hyundai that for now at least, is only capable winning on tarmac with Neuville at the wheel, even the GOAT didn't get any wins in it during his period, yet managed to land a win with both the C3 & the Puma...not on pure asphalt events, but still.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
better check your facts...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
I'm sorry did I miss something? Did Loeb won with the i20 anything? Besides being on the podium in Chile 2019 & Turkey 2020, did Loeb win anything with the i20 Coupe on Gravel? let alone Tarmac?Quote:
Originally Posted by ictus
Rallye Vosges, Rally di Alba, Rallye Ciudad de Granada and Rallye du Var :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Also stage wins in WRC events:
C3 WRC - 9 stage wins / 3 rallies
i20 WRC - 10 stage wins / 8 rallies
Puma Rally1 - 10 stage wins / 3 rallies
I meant in the WRC, but yeah I see your point lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Latvala: "Our 2023 line-ups are not finalized yet"
As in F1, there is always a game of bluff in the WRC transfer window. And clauses sometimes making it possible to get rid of existing contracts. We know that Ford is looking for a top driver because its 2022 line-up is proving to be a bit "light", Hyundai claims that Ott Tanak's contract goes beyond three years and wants to keep the Estonian who in the end would probably be better than at Toyota where he no longer got along with boss Tommi Makinen at the time.
Like the manager of Thierry Neuville who, according to a very good source, had grilled himself at Toy by landing with too high claims, Marko Martin, the manager of Tanak had typed too high. But after filling his pockets for three years, the 2019 champion might want to face Rovanpera on equal terms. But is there still a place among the Japanese? Are the contracts of Elfyn Evans, a little disappointing this year, and Esapekka Lappi concrete? We put the question to Jari-Matti Latvala, Toyota's sporting director in rallying.
Is there still a spare seat at Toyota for 2023? "Our line-up for next year is not yet fully defined. We are still working on it," admitted the Finn very frankly. Are we therefore going to witness an unexpected transfer as with Fernando Alonso who left suddenly for Aston Martin when everyone expected to see him stay with Alpine? Can Ott Tanak or even Thierry Neuville create a surprise by joining the opposing camp? It's unlikely but probably not impossible. Apart from these two, Toyota has no interest in looking elsewhere. On the other hand, we must be worried about Adrien Fourmaux or even Craig Breen. Because we honestly wonder if Andreas Mikkelsen or Stéphane Lefèbvre wouldn't do a better job at the wheel of the Puma...
https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/...IN7RXO3BMTSGQ/
I think Japanese (Toyoda) might still be a bit pissed off at Tanak for the way he left so they will put a foot down if Latvala proposes it.
Yes. Japanese culture is a bit different thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Tänak brought Toyota WDC and showed incredible speed of the car. He had/has good relationship w Toyoda.Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit12
Only one to blame and point fingers to Tänak's move to Hyundai is Mäkinen at that time(or his other ,,problematic'' side) and lack if enthusiasm? then to offer him proper deal.
Mäkinen/his wife/team was sacked year later and basically nothing heard of him after that..
Toyodas official communication immediatelly after Spain 2019 and before Australia 2019 seemed to show he was upset with Tanak and I keep hearing Japanese are big on loyalty. Then Australia didn't happen so Toyota couldn't win manu title (if Tanak helped them there sure it would help).
"Rally Hokkaido" here is likely the best to comment on the topic (if he can).
It did!! Finally, we should always have this chat before the rally ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Well, Makinen is the guy who built this Toyota team with a flexible structure and makes them able to win 2 championships in 3 years without Ogier (1st brand since 2008 to win a championship without one Seb).Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
And clearly at that time, it was not a VW-type structure, it was a more flexible one even if he had the money.
And in the end, even if Tanak’s stint with Hyundai is not awful, the result is not too bad for Toyota :) (remember also that Rovanpera was a clear Makinen’s choice even before Tanak’s exit)
I Don’t say Makinen has no flaw but you don’t do this with a certain personality. And in the end, Toyota doesn’t have really to complain about Makinen’s job; it’s more Tanak who could think about what could have happened if he had stayed in Toyota.
And to come back on the topic, I don’t really see the point for Toyota to sign Tanak; ok, he is a competitor but they have the potential next big thing with Rovanpera; why would they mess up with him for a 35-yo guy? (Reminds me about the Loeb-Ogier 2011 feud where, in the end, Citroen lost everything by firing Ogier who kick their asses during 6 years and then ashamed them by forcing their exit).
Let's get all rumours out then, here's another one. Mäkinen wanted a part of Ott's salary to himself.
Was checking the points table and realised that Rovanperä has won 6 out of 9 Powerstages = 30 extra points..
That's massive, how much PS means through the season..
Makinens friends and close associates provided parts to Toyota, allowing Makinen to get parts cheaper and allowing his companions to have access to the unlimited Japanese money. This all was the main cause for Toyotas reliability issues and played a big part in Tanaks departure. Ie 2019 SardegnaQuote:
Originally Posted by Päss1928
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by tcrown
I had the same info
But be ready to be laughed out by some here
Oh I thought this was a game. I'm not laughing this off but will ask - if Makinen had unlimited Yen, why is he going for cheaper parts? Tell the associates to source the best parts and name the price.
Based on latest press release, seems like they're on okay terms to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Quote:
P.S. to Ott
Congratulations on your victory! I sent a message to you in December 2019 saying “let’s meet on the podium again and I will spray champagne at you”. It didn’t come true in Belgium, so it must happen in Japan for sure!”
Buy cheaper parts, ask money for 3x price quality parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Make prooofit.
At that time he could cash more from Japan and use cheaper parts which usually generates you more profit. Remember, TGR and TMR were separate companies and TMR made huge profits year by year. Some of the profits were even moved to Estonia bcs of cheaper taxes and that's why they moved some of the operations close to Tallinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
When japanese took over Tallinn got immediate boot.
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
If him being an idiot is the point being made, fair enough!
It's even not the point to make but reality.
Tänak on the other hand was pushing more and quite rudely sometimes. That's what I've heard as well.
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
Pushing more what? For more salary?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
More lik quality and endurance..Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
For more salary he(and everybody else) can push after winning WDC..
One thing you also need to realize is that Tommi didnt act alone in this team. Actually most of the decisions were done by his wife and Tommi was sometimes just a face of the company and the RT. It’s been publicly known for many years that Lappis departure from Toyota was because of some hard disagreements with Mia.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Development, quality, performance, endurance etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Eli
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Yes, didn't remember that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4m
Then maybe there is a chance for Tanak at Toyota.
Though I agree with what was said about Toyota not needing Tanak. Risks Rovanpera's position and kinda destroys the competition (something Latvala and I think Toyoda also talked about).
The big question is if Evans wants to leave, that would open the door.
Why would he leave? Who's going to match his salary or provide a better car?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
i dont think that money is NOT the main thing these guys searching for, they want success....and Evens knows with Kalle in same car he has to wait until Kalle gets a problem....Puma is far better car than it seems at the moment, they just have no driver (except Loeb)Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4m
Evans in Puma could show what is possible...
Key word is at the moment. No disrespect to M-Sport, but they have the car to be in only for the beginning of new regulations After that, budget constraints will hamper their development capabilities and the car will fall behind. We've all seen it. So while it's true, Evans might be capable of displaying better results in Puma right now (although, I don't necessarily agree), leaving the team for a car that you know will falter makes no sense. And again, I don't want to bash on M-Sport, because they have yet again come out with a powerful and capable car. It's just the unfortunate position they are in.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC1
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-t...he-star-pupil/
"Ypres showed it was a true drivers’ rally, catching out the two obvious favorites for victory. It demonstrated too that M-Sport team principal Richard Millener was right when he said throwing money at marginal technical gains wasn’t an effective strategy".
At the same time he also said after Fourmaux crash that some partners might stop supporting them if the results don't come. That's something we have discussed even before this season. How happy Ford (and others) will be when the new (costly) car gets driven around (mostly) by paydrivers for profit rather than results.
Case in point - Finland. 5 Pumas, one had some hope for podium before the rally.
Note what Hyundai did before this season. Mid last year they (Adamo at that time) said it openly that their job in WRC is to win championships, so they stopped Loubet/Veiby/Solans drives and focused on that. Sure MSports business is something else, but if the goals become very different than Ford or others (Redbull??) it can obviously be a problem.
A little OT, but do you really think Adamo did that voluntarily?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
All those extra little programs using WRC cars, run by semi-private teams, only started when he took over as TP. Same with the sale of i20 Coupe WRC chassis. The 'job' of winning championships didn't suddenly start in 2021...