different people, different standards...
Printable View
different people, different standards...
So everyone - stop this discussion. NOT is absolutely right about this thing.
No other arguments can be held on this matter. If Bertelli needed urgent help the only thing to do was stop the stage by giving signal SOS to next competitor and the rest is handled by the rules. No matter what small chiefs ever would have to say. End of discussion whatever you other guys say.
(I´ve been away for some 10 hours and still the same blabla. - Please try to listen to what NOT say. He is really right in this discussion. It has not to do with whom the accident happened to.)
Well, i cant agree, Per.
Partly, because i cant follow him in his not wery good way too argue, both offending all, and also yelling too us (using big letters is yelling).
If someone is hurt, a nobody or a wc, It doesn't matter. If he does it by the rules or not, It actually doesn't matter eighter. Someone is hurt. Period.
I'm just taken the courses in jury and racemanagment i norway, i can both run a race/rally and be in the jury, one ting we learn'd is that you cant always follow the rules.
It would have been quite simple to have waved the SOS board and interrupted the stage. However, stopping the following car is not a rule, it is a procedure should you require assistance from those competitors. He didn't require assistance from following competitors as he was getting assistance from a Paramedic evidently and was able to speak directly with HQ. Therefore why would you stop the stage? Nobody would have thanked him for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
It's easy to be wise in hindsight and to say that there was no injury and no harm. That clearly wasn't the feeling on location at the time and presumably wasn't the view of the assisting Paramedic.
It would be interesting to hear from the Paramedic as to his views on the urgency. Regardless, the actions of the crew were absolutely appropriate.
The only thing N.O.T is correct about is that if the crew had have waved the SOS and stopped the following car the stage would have been stopped and the ambulance would have arrived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
That is the only thing N.O.T is correct about.
The rules do not require that action ... and it would not have been the appropriate action ... and not taking that action does not absolve the organisers from their responsibility to respond with some urgency to injury accidents.
My objection lies to the fact that bertelli issued that stupid statement saying that the orgnisers did not send an ambulance, not to his actions.
Bertelli did not feel well and consulted the medical staff of the rally, and the trained professionals did not see any reason to stop the stage since the little kid probably had a panic attack 8 year old girls have when they lose their dolls... and Bertelli got mad because they did not send an ambulance and stop the stage...
What i say is that even after consulting the organisers bertelli wanted the stage to stop he could very easily have done so... why did not do it ?? and why he blames the organisers for not stopping the stage while he did not stop it as well ??? I would understand his objection if the organiser refused him an ambulance after Bertelli stopped the stage by showing the SOS sign.
Now you are telling me that the medical officer would put his whole life on the line without a good reason ? are you that dense people ? if Bertelli trully was hurt, i really doubt the medical officer would put his freedom at risk (because he would end up in jail).
I can hear all the laughs coming from the rally centre while bertelli was describing his vegetative symptoms thinking they were brain hemorrhage... LOOOOOOOL My respect towards rally Portugal staff just raised 100 fold.
From what I heard Prada Mamy was in the HQ in Matosinhos and even said that could rent a Helicopter to go and get the kid! That was just a "spoiled brat" thing.
Rally overalls 1000 euros
WRC Car 300.000 euros
WRC entry for 1 year 2.000.000 euros
being a broken little kid without a soul.... priceless.
Let me write something stupid.
Tanak sank in Mexico, he and his co-driver was fine, some wet, yes, scared of course, but without a scratch. Why in Mexico decided to stop special?
I imagine the pilot came back at him, when get the control. Tanak's car no arrive. Did you see anything? Yes, he was fishing at the dam and was eating tamales with people there saw the rally. Or not ... I didn't see ... pum, may day, may day, send the helicopter
Again, the life of Tanak was not compromised ... that we knew when we saw the video after
In mexico they stopped the stage because they saw the gps signal disappearing suddenly within the water so they feared for the worst.
The link was already put here, but it could be interesting to reproduce in a clear way the organizers comment on Bertelli's incident:
"Following the statement released by the FUCKMATIČ World Rally Team regarding Competitor #37 accident at the 2015 Vodafone Rally de Portugal, the organiser clarifies the following:
In relation to the incident involving competitor Lorenzo Bertelli, the organiser of Vodafone Rally de Portugal confirm that a person with medical background was in constant contact with the Event Chief Medical Officer and stayed with the driver at all times after his accident on SS10.
The Rally Chief Medical Officer consulted with the FIA Medical Delegate and at no time was the driver’s condition considered to be serious or urgent. He remained at the hospital for CT scan at 24 hours post-injury (hospital protocol for head trauma) and all the exams revealed no signs of traumatic brain injury.”
The Organising Committee
28 of May of 2015"
Bertelli claims on his press release are contradicted by the organizers, that have enough experience to distinguish a real medical emergency (like the one that involved a heli rescue to Max Rendina, #33 driver) from a minor health problem.
I like Bertelli involvement in WRC and think there shouldn't be any discrimination (positive or negative) because of his economical status, but the way this matter was described by him and his staff gives the idea that there's a little excess of egocentrism in the fuckmatie team...
Above all, this minor incident can't undermine the organizers great job on this year rally, especially attending the high risk option to return at the north region.
Perhaps, instead of dedicate so many posts over this issue it would be nice to see recognize in this forum the passion and the good behaviour of northern portuguese spectators and how vibrating and cheerful the rally turned to be ;-)
Viva Portugal, Viva o Rali!
Indeed, it was a great and beautiful rally!
If there is no brain, then logically how could Bertelli be brain injured?
The Organsier Dottore should have pointed that out to the boy and problem solved....
No. In Mexico they stopped the stage lot of minutes later, because they didnt really know what happened to Tanak...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
NOBODY can know via phone, how serious is the injury, especially if it is head injury. In this case we should believe only driver's feelings and medical equipments (scans etc). I am usually on rally controls on events in Czech republic and I have lot of experience with this. If the crew member is feeling bad and there SHOULD be problem with it, we are immediatelly stopping the stage and sending the medical crew there. Because we are talking about health, which should be on first place. And dont forget, stopping the stage doesnt mean cancelling the stage, after some break stage can continue without problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
I dont have more details about the problem, but what I have read from both statements (crew and organiser), for me this is big mistake from organiser/rally control/rally doctor/media delegate.
No it is not. simple as that.. a medical professional knows a lot more how to deal with these situations... Bertelli probably described a panic attack instead of a brain injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
There is absolutely no chance for a medical professional to put his whole life on the line without being sure 100000000000%, especially when the solution would be very easy like stopping the stage for a few minutes.
Organisers did exactly what was right and told the rich boy to take his psychotic syndromes elsewhere.
we are saying the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Tha last one about itQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Concussion Symptoms
Seek emergency care for an adult or child who experiences a head injury and symptoms such as:
Repeated vomiting
A loss of consciousness lasting longer than 30 seconds
A headache that gets worse over time
Changes in his or her behavior, such as irritability
Changes in physical coordination, such as stumbling or clumsiness
Confusion or disorientation, such as difficulty recognizing people or places
Slurred speech or other changes in speech
Other symptoms include:
Seizures
Vision or eye disturbances, such as pupils that are bigger than normal (dilated pupils) or pupils of unequal sizes
Lasting or recurrent dizziness
Obvious difficulty with mental function or physical coordination
Symptoms that worsen over time
Large head bumps or bruises on areas other than the forehead in children, especially in infants under 12 months of age
Basics First Aid :wave:
And here in lies the answer !Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
Are we still discussing this?!
As far as I know he was just sick of waiting and he wanted his mother to rent a helicopter and pick him up. And I just heard he did not need to go to the hospital, but his mother insisted he went for regular checkups. If he was not injured he should have to wait for the end of the stage just like any other driver.
What does it mean you "heard"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
Word from the organizers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Its getting better and better as the truth surfaces... spoiled broken little brat... LOL
LOL, I hope they're lying somehow. That would be too much "spoiled brat", I think we will never know the truth about this but next rally is in 2 weeks and we have nothing else to talk about :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
Latvala onboard FAFE stage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...&v=iqfswkqi8ag
We could firm up arrangements for the 'hospitality' in Sarde ;-) We are staying at Platamona on the beach - anyone care to come to a BBQ on the Wednesday or Thursday evening?Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
"We have lift off!"Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
More on the Bertelli thing:
Barbosa, who presides over the Automobile Club of Portugal as well as the WRC Commission, told AUTOSPORT: "Lorenzo Bertelli was very anxious to go to the arms of his mother, that's all it was.
"He wanted us to stop the stage so his mother could fly in in the helicopter and pick him up so he didn't have to wait.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119297
"That might be how it works in Italy, but that's not how we do things here in Portugal." this is just stupid to say. All his tone was the one of an idiot, he may be right about Bertelli but he is not less childish than him
It was obvious at least to people who know the basics about the sport that Bertelli was at fault and the organisers did not just ignore him... but ok we cannot all have the same intelectual levels, sometimes being a ignorant dog helps the society in many ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
Good on Barbosa for speaking clearly.
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00008154&10
After a lot of speculation surrounding Lorenzo Bertelli's accident on SS10 at Rally de Portugal 2015, Carlos Barbosa, the President of the WRC Commission, has spoken out - and he hasn't held back.
Many rally fans have called his comments 'too personal', and rightly so.
"Lorenzo Bertelli was very anxious to go to the arms of his mother, that's all it was." said Barbosa.
"He wanted us to stop the stage so his mother could fly in in the helicopter and pick him up so he didn't have to wait.
"That might be how it works in Italy, but that's not how we do things here in Portugal.
"He was completely OK, but he got very excited and made a big noise about having to wait.
"He thinks because he is the son of Prada this changes everything."
Lorenzo Bertelli responded in a professional manner, but it was clearly difficult for him to mask the emotion in his words. "After 20 minutes I nearly fell to the ground and felt really sick. I asked Gio [Bernacchini, co-driver] to hit the SOS button.
"After we waited already two hours, the spectator who was a medic called to the organisers again and said for us to wait another hour to hour and a half was too much.
"What is the point of having the button if we push it and the organisers do nothing?"
A fine question indeed, and one that rally fans all around the world have been asking non-stop since the accident occurred. After all, if a driver changes his status from OK to SOS, that means that something is wrong and that it needs to be dealt with immediately. But should the organisers of Rally de Portugal really have left the situation in the hands of a spectator who just so happened to be a paramedic?
"We had a paramedic with him and he was reporting his condition every five or 10 minutes." Barbosa said. This paramedic, a spectator at the event, has said very different things according to Bertelli's camp. Barbosa's comments haven't put this topic to bed. In fact, they've shaken it up and made it a whole lot worse.
Barbosa also added, "I have the best rally in the world. We have no problems with the event at all."
It's very clear that there are problems, and the problem isn't with the event itself - it's with the people who decided to put Bertelli's health on the back burner and leave him stranded inside a stage for three and a half hours. Bertelli went to hospital, stayed overnight, had two CAT scans and only left the next day after doctors pronounced him fit to leave.
A head injury is a head injury. The ambulances are on-event for a reason: to go in and retrieve drivers who require medical attention, and if Bertelli's incident was so minor, he wouldn't have had to go to hospital at all.
The question that fans are now asking is this: why has the President of the WRC Commission made personal comments about Bertelli's background and family in relation to an accident he had on an event, and perhaps more directly, what does his family name have to do with asking for medical help?
But the real question comes from Bertelli himself, and we will repeat it again now: "What is the point of having the button if we push it and the organisers do nothing?"
http://www.ralsys.com/irally_admin/n...o_Bertelli.jpg
I would add another question: why a pathetic windbag moron is the President of the WRC Commission?
why ? for speaking the truth ?
I'm not referring to Bertelli issue itself, but about the tone and the words he has used for his declaration like when he said "He wanted to go to his mother's arm", or that idiocy about how things works in Portugal and in Italy or also when he says he has the best rally in the world.
Be a normal man, speak the truth but do not show your "masculinity" in such an idiot way.
I think he used the correct tone and words...
with people like Bertelli and all the other useless privateers of the WRC you have to be bold because those spoiled kids are used in being pampered by the local village event organisers doing all their favours for them in order the village people to see one more WRC/s2000 in the entry of their useless village event...
this is the WRC and if you want to be in it you have to realise that the organiser has the upper hand and he has a world class event to run, and you only demand things when there is a need to do it.
Village events aren't useless and he has not been bold but just pathetic in my opinion.
The rest I agree.