Last stage coverage was really poor, mainly because of position and picture quality (light balance?) of on board cameras.
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Last stage coverage was really poor, mainly because of position and picture quality (light balance?) of on board cameras.
they choosed to make ps at night.I wasn t waiting to see something better than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Amateurs,useless dogs.
If it would had been a snow covered stage, then it would had been okey because the snow reflects light. But as we all know wet tarmac eats all the light.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
But the incar camera position was bad, right where the wipers don't clean the window ...
It was no problem when Eurosport did it. I guess these guys didn't test the cameras at night or in rain.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Eurosport are not amateurs.
yes, they certanly are not, i wish it would have been eurosport coverage with julien porter, colin clark, john desbrah, and paul king...,miss the days when you had live coverage from eurosport and the highlights from each rally...
So we've finally got live stages and yet people keep complaining.
Let's see how it will progress, after all this is the first time this has been done properly.
true,hopefully it will improve as time progresses and we will have more from it next year...
You can't satisfy everyone :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
You are wrong; it's not the first time it's been done and it was not done properly :pQuote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
It is great we have it, but there is room for improvement. Friday's stage was good, but this evening was almost unwatchable.
Thankfully throughout the season they will not encounter such conditions again so it should be better from here on.
I have seen only first live coverage and I must say I was quite disappointed. OK, they have lot of cameras at the start and finish. They have some onboard cameras and helicopter, which was not so close to the road. But everything looks like mixture of some random shots without any interest about what is happening on the stage. No splits, no interest about the stage, not so many shots of actual leader, almost no interview at the finish. At Latvala's puncture they arrived at its very end (so almost 2 mins later) etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
You saw the "good" stage Pluto, wait till you see SS15 then you will be really disappointed!Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Great having live stages but last night's was indeed disappointing. When Eurosport did it results were fantastic, ok it was dry on the Turini stage but we saw the road ahead despite darkness. This year we saw very little. Poor cameras, poor positioning or whatever it was not good. This is what I saw most of the time:
http://i.imgur.com/dUQu1uEl.jpg
And Eurosport 2011:
http://i.imgur.com/1rZpfjml.png
'Turini night' was a real treat 'back in the day', probably my favourite tv event of the year. Hopefully Red Bull can learn and do better next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
I think this was because drivers were driving without all lights on, because of the fog at first part of the stage. The rain also paid its role of visibility I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
The fog I can understand but the above picture was not in the fog. And of course the rain was a factor but not to such an extent as it rendered pictures totally useless. I'm not not the only person with this opinion. Perhaps the picture wasn't a good example but it does show what most of us thought about the broadcast.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Does anyone here who has been annoyed by putting previous days review in highlight coverage?
I was really upset when BTsport puts about 8 minutes review in the last day's highlight.
BT Sport wouldn't have done anything. The highlights were produced by Red Bull/'WRC Promoter'. But I agree, it was a bit unnecessary if you'd seen the previous highlights show.Quote:
Originally Posted by whosyo
Personally I didn't think the live shows were too bad. Not as good as Eurosport on a good day, but not as terrible as some are making out. The onboards didn't suffer much picture break up, which given the weather conditions was quite impressive, I thought. I still can't understand why the 'over the shoulder' old camera angle has been completely forsaken for the right hand corner dashboard position these days though.
Personally I was more disappointed with the nightly highlights. Too much fluff and not enough coverage of each stage. I think the highlights were better in the early ISC days.
It's really a simple explanation. Modern WRCs are cramped from the inside and as the helmet bags are situated behind the seats, they have to put the helmets through the main X-bars behind the seats. Therefore it's impossible to have any camera setups there, as the helmets must fit through the seats and the X - camera would block the access.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
In C4 WRC, there was a horizontal bar behind the helmet bags, but it was useless angle because it was so far back that the windscreen was 15% of the picture. Focus WRC had slightly tilted vertical bar behind the bags which offered slightly better view than in C4, althought not perfect. In Japan, Ireland and Wales in 2007 a special inboard angle was used in Focus, where camera was right behind codriver's head. It was pretty ok, except in some cars codriver's helmet was too much in the view.
Best "between seats" angle was the one used in the Fiestas equipped with Recaro's "hard" seats. There the camera was mounted to driver seat's "ear". It was really nice. The mounting was only used with drivers who used the hard seats, as camera was not possible to attach to soft seat. In DS3, I don't remember seeing any good between seats angle, the ones used e.g. in Sweden 2011 were really bad.
I don't mind the right-A pillar camera but it could be bit more wideangle to give more sense of speed. Also the adaptation to different lightning conditions should be improved. What I really miss are the external wideangle roof cameras. Given that the lens was clear, I really liked the angle a lot!
Examples of the angles:
2006-2010, usual Focus inboard angle (with a nice external A-pillar angle): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkHeZAMrpCY
2007 "special" Focus angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTTg30WVV1U#t=299
Pre-2011, C4 bad inboard angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... aE--Q#t=53
2011, DS3 inboard angle, not good imho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8QQu-g#t=7
2011 best between the seats angle + very nice wideangle roof camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LIE0onlKk
For example in some Fabia S2000s and Mini RRCs it's possible to get nice between seats angle, because the helmet bags are situated in the codriver footwell and not behind seats.
Thanks for the info Juha Koo, I totally forgot about them putting their helmets behind them. Was there anything specific that killed off the roof top cameras or did they just disappear with North One Sport? Like yourself, I miss those too.
[quote=Juha_Koo][/quote:1kmlcyxw]Quote:
Originally Posted by "the sniper":1kmlcyxw
I quite like them too. It is nice to see the driver in action, but sometimes that can be at the expense of being able to see the road properly which is more important in my book.
Just don't put them behind the unwiped bit of the windscreen when it is raining :rolleyes:
They disappeared with North One Sport... To my knowledge, the new promoter uses different kind of cameras.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Also what has disappeared, are the WRC onboard archives... If my information is correct, at some point NOS had to "destroy" (I don't know what this means) all pre-2006 onboards because they were on Mini-DV tapes (they took a lot of space) and they just ran out space. Teams/drivers might still have some pre-2006 material... I don't know what has happened to 2006-->end of NOS era onboards, last confirmed sighting of them is in cardboard boxes in some London office, where they were packed for shipment to FIA office in Paris because of the promoter ambiguities.
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
I just couldn't resist posting this! The official WRC twitter posts a poor video of the Ogier/Ostberg incident which is a screen-grab of the official video feed.
WRC ?@OfficialWRC 27m
Lucky escape for @MadsOstberg and @SebOgier between the flying finish and stop line on SS8 Rallye Monte Carlo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDgtWzyMTD0 …
Are these people serious about their job????
Wow, that really is quite something... At least we don't have to worry about the WRC shutting down You Tube channels for copyright infringement, they seem to encourage it, even in its crappiest form! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
Seems the teams aren't happy with the promoters still.
Some issues around a lack of TV coverage certainty and last-minute live filming in the service park.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112248
While nobody has expected miracles from RedBull; I don't think they've done anything fantastic. The 'new' WRC website is only slightly better than the old one - more an evolution than a new model (quite apt for Rallying... ;) ).
Are they planning an app? Also, there is more to Promotion than just TV.....
Finally, I'm not too keen on the Promoter inspired return to the 'generic' WRC event - running from Thursday night to Sunday lunchtime...... WRC events should be diverse and different.
What sort of sums do the teams have to pay the promoter? I would have thought the teams' have every right to complain as they are essentially customers of Red Bull Media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
In F1 the top ten teams actually get paid by the promoter!
And in Formula 1, the races are run to a very strict schedule and format with little commercial rights for the teams.
You can't always have it both ways.
I think the FIA have increased their prices to the manufacturers, not necessarily the promoter.
If you can make a proper mount to fit on the outside of the right ear on the drivers seat it's perfect and shouldn't be in the way of helmets either.
I did it in the Fiesta WRC here but it's not sturdy enough with the go pro sticky mount and a three joints.
Gopro2 is set to medium wide angel here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oQeYHQ3zCU
On top of the co drivers ear with wide angel, didn't angel it high enough here so the spot meter hit the dash instead of the road so it's a bit bright. Using medium wide angel makes it easier to hit that sweet spot. Got a LCD screen now to make it easier to set up :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O3EvHB0bwA
This is about as good as it gets, not sure how it's mounted here but i think it's on the drivers seat ear. It's filmed with a VIO POV HD anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ6rWcIqrp8
Aaaah, so it´s you who makes those very nice vids...? The last one is SUPER. I´ve loved once it came out. That´s how all incar should be filmed. Mycket gott! Hälsa Mads och Jonas.
I didn't make the last one from the test with Mads, Peter Osckay who used to work for ADAPTA did.
It's always a rush getting inboard camera's mounted at rallies but give me a day and it shouldn't be hard to test it properly and make it perfect :)
This also gives really nice angle, VIO HD (lens part) attached with proper tape to codriver seat's left ear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx45JvkxIvY
http://don.vn.cz/blog/index.php/is-the- ... y-monkeys/
Ondrej going at it :)
Absolutely my thoughts!Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
I just can't stand that such unprofessional people are working there. There are plenty of enthusiasts around the world who would give all their heart to get this job done properly because they love and know what is rallying. I'm just one of them.
All those useless onboard camera angles where you have absolutely no feeling of the actual speed the car is going. When I go to rally events I watch onboard videos to choose some nice spots, but with these camera angles all the corners look boring although in real life standing beside the road in the same places your mouth sometimes stays wide open after the 1st car pass you.
Those people should be seated next to Ogier and run through the Ouninpohja for example, maybe then they will understand how the onboard video should look like. :)
In my opinion there is no need for big investments to drastically change the style of the coverage. Just need the right people.
Everyone will benefit from it and most likely more people unfamiliar with rallying will be interested in WRC. I have brought plenty of my friends to their 1st rally and even the most sceptical were super excited with what they saw. Even girls. :)
So rallying is spectacular for allmost everyone, the most of them just don't have a clue what it actually is. The good coverage and promotion is vital to attract more spectators.
Even our local promoter mediasport has 1000x better onboards than both WRC and ERC promoters. Every single stupid local event means at least a dozen of onboards in HD on the internet with well placed cameras and all sounds in...
I think almost all of us share more or less the same view on the onboards shown by the promoter: they are just useless and boring.
Adding to this and also the comment by N.O.T. in the Monte thread, I would like to share an interesting conversation I heard in Wales Rally last November between a VW mechanic and some guy working for Red Bull Media.
The VW mechanic mentioned about camera positioning and that Ogier himself has requested for better camera positioning as he cannot use the onboard and does not understand the road with the current camera placement. Ogier asked for the more traditional placement we all loved, which as a lot of people saying is not possible with current cars, but as SubaruNorway shows above can be done with some effort. Although the argument from the RBMH guy was that placing the camera in the centre was only possible for some cars (because of seat specs maybe???) The problem is that the promoter demands that the onboard cameras are places in the same location in ALL cars (maybe for sake of footage consistency). So their 'only' viable option was/is to put it near the pillar.
Probably thats why don't see anymore some of the experimentation they did early on with different locations. I remember the onboard of Latvala from Acropolis Rally with central camera placement, although ahead of the driver, is a lot more immersive and gives better sense of speed than the one the use now.
Personally I believe nobody from all these people working with the promoter has real passion for the sport to improve it. If they cared about this, they could easily find a solution long time ago.
Seems the 2014 TV-guide was born: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/tv-guid ... -80--.html :D
I don't think it is something newQuote:
Originally Posted by Motorsportfun
It's updated for 2014. I don't think the old list has been available since the new site came online. The broadcasters are supposed to be submitting their logo's and broadcast Schedule for February, so it'll be interesting to see if it changes again.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
On a separate subject, clips of Toyota president Akio Toyoda's appearance on J Sports in Japan are on You Tube. He makes quite an entry... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TOKKOqA95s :D
But it is!! :o BT Sport was not signed last year, same for FOX Sports in Italy! :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv