People Power

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Look at the US in the past. We had less economic programs, and our economy grew at a faster rate than it is now, or than it is currently in Scandinavian economies.

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Could you please point to a source where it shows the historic relation between tax-burden and economic growth in the US??

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

You clearly suggested that the underlying problem in Greece was with the government spending too much on the public services. How else is this statement to be taken: 'What if those tiny amounts continue to add up until the whole governmental system is so massively in debt that it starts to collapse? See Greece'.

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The problem in Greece IS the massive government spending. I said in the post you quoted that growth can exist with massive tax burdens, not that it would exist.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So your idea is that we have a revenue problem, not a spending problem?

In 1999 the US took in 1.827 Trillion dollars, and had a surplus (on paper at least). In 2010 the US took in 2.163 Trilion dollars, and has a deficit of ~1.293 Billion dollars (I've seen different numbers around there). We do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

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You've got a revenue problem as well as a spending problem.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...993_-_2008.png

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Look at the US in the past. We had less economic programs, and our economy grew at a faster rate than it is now...

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Which may well be true, but doesn't help. The US, and the world, is a very different place compared with 10, 20 or 30yrs ago and returning to policies of the past will not provide solutions in the present.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yet John Major's false sense of nostalgia involved virtually that picture in his mind. Had people known that it appeared there alongside one of a naked Edwina Currie, maybe there would have been more opposition.

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I've just been slightly sick in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Lousada

Could you please point to a source where it shows the historic relation between tax-burden and economic growth in the US??

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http://www.dartmouth.edu/~jskinner/....EconGrowth.pdf

Page 11 of 26, figure 3A Capital Income Tax Rate vs Per Capital Real GDP Growth (Percent). The slope of the line is negative.

Page 18 of 26, figure 5 Capital Income Tax Rate vs Private Investment/GDP (Percent). The slip of the line is negative.

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a major tax reform reducing all marginal rates by five percentage points and average tax rates by 2.5 percentage points is predicted to increase longterm growth rates by between 0.2 and 0.3 percentage points.

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even these modest growth effects can have an important long-term impact on living standards.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Which may well be true, but doesn't help. The US, and the world, is a very different place compared with 10, 20 or 30yrs ago and returning to policies of the past will not provide solutions in the present.

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So socialism/communisim/collectivism have been tried in the past as well, and for the most part failed. Why go back to them. History is a great teacher. Ignore history at your own peril.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So socialism/communisim/collectivism have been tried in the past as well, and for the most part failed. Why go back to them. History is a great teacher. Ignore history at your own peril.

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You seem, as a lot of right-wing Americans do, to confuse people whose opinions are vaguely left-wing with socialists and communists. It is tiresomely simplistic.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Look at the US in the past. We had less economic programs, and our economy grew at a faster rate than it is now, or than it is currently in Scandinavian economies.

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That's probably just because there was less global competition. Countries like China, South-Korea and India were basically 3rd world countries back then. Now they are serious competitors to the Western economies and their economies grow fast.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

The problem in Greece IS the massive government spending. I said in the post you quoted that growth can exist with massive tax burdens, not that it would exist.

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Tax evasion is probably a more serious problem:

Greece loses