Breakaway series is go!

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Originally Posted by airshifter

If FOTA breaks away the pinnacle of motorsport will travel with them. F1 will become not much more than a spec car series. I'd gladly celebrate racing with rules set by those supporting racing with millions and millions of dollars ever year, rather than the way it is now, with the teams having no say for the greater profit of the bumbling idiots running the show.

I have no problems with my reasoning abilities. It's been clear to me for years that Max and the FIA push forward with stupid ideas that cost the teams money, and the teams finally got sick of it.

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The problem is that the teams are looking only for their own profit. And when I say the teams I point to all of them but more specifically to the manufactures.

What´s they key to success? Do what suits your purposes, no matter how. If some manufacturer has to leave the FOTA because they´ll find greener pastures with the FIA, they´ll surely do it. And what if the new (and hypothetical) FOTA series turn out to be really powerful, and the man in charge likes-enjoys-abuses it?

The (impossible) soultion would be controlling somehow the governing body, then getting rid of Bernie and Max and then DON´T let the teams run the series. Now everything looks great because Max is nuts and Bernie is a greedy hellspawn, and teams seem to be on the right side... But are they really different from the FIA? Yes and no. They are far more divided, and Max has done with them whatever he liked. But when it comes to potential abuse of the business which is F1, I don´t care who´s in charge because the final outcome will be the same.

That´s why a split would not solve anything. Or at least not in the long term, because let´s assume the FOTA series become the new Formula 1, and the original Formula 1 dissapears, or becomes a feeder series or whatever. We´d have another F1, with a different name but the same in spirit, or even worse. I would not give the power so a bunch of greedy individualists, taking it from a megalomaniac and a greedy thing.

Conclussion: We (the fans) are f*cked, as always. There´ll be no dream-like series unless someone really sensible is in charge, and I can´t see it happening. Just look at how are they negotiating!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Teams, such as Williams live by being racing teams. Real racing teams.

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And they'd break away with FOTA if they could afford it.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I support the FIA / FOA and not FOTA at all.

F1 and the drivers world championship will not be FOTA no matter who is there.

No team is bigger than the sport and even if a Ferrari is not present then that will be their own decision.

Briatore has been bucking for something like this for a long time. He sees himself as another Bernie I think.

I attended the South African Grand Prix in 1981 where no Mclaren or Ferrari was present and, won by Carlos Reutemann in the Williams it was as enjoyable.

F1 is suposed to be a constructors and drivers championship and with teams such as Williams and new teams such as USF1 and Cosworth it will be.

Teams that are RACING teams and not looking to sell automobiles and spending ridiculous amounts of money. Maybe if there is a break up f1 will return to the great days when it was not dominated by the manufacturers but by racing teams constructors. And the drivers were kewl dudes without pretention that would mix with the fans.

Why not have drivers such as Pantano, Bruno, di Grassi and Davidson - maybe even Bourdais and Sato and Paffett who will establish themselves in f1 and be given a chance to race?

And if Monte Carlo will only go where Ferrari is, then let them. New tracks will be established and a new f1 - back to the future - will flourish.

I support Bernie. I always have and I will not change now.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

F1 governed by the FIA and run by Bernie made a lot of money for people such as Briatore.

All they had to do was turn up and race.

Lets see how they do. Bernie makes it look easy and exactly how will FOTA guarantee that their manufacturers will not witdraw from the series? Renault have come and gone a couple of times for example.

Teams, such as Williams live by being racing teams. Real racing teams.

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AMEN, kool aid drinker man, go for it!!!

Nothin wrong with this line of reasoning, you would have done well at the last reverend Jimmie Jones revevial meeting down in Guyana

No doubt been first in line for the koolest kool aid....

well it ain't too late, step right this way and have a sip of the finest kool aid since then, and you will see all with clarity, even if you are blind in one eye and can not see out the other........

:beer:

And are you really MaXiepad in cognitio as a saint?
I would have thought benrie, but he is jewish and don't believe in saints, sooooooo?????? (but he is "devote" to money)

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Personally, while I do not want to see a break up - I support the FIA / FOA and not FOTA at all.

F1 and the drivers world championship will not be FOTA no matter who is there.

No team is bigger than the sport and even if a Ferrari is not present then that will be their own decision.

Briatore has been bucking for something like this for a long time. He sees himself as another Bernie I think.

I attended the South African Grand Prix in 1981 where no Mclaren or Ferrari was present and, won by Carlos Reutemann in the Williams it was as enjoyable.

F1 is suposed to be a constructors and drivers championship and with teams such as Williams and new teams such as USF1 and Cosworth it will be.

Teams that are RACING teams and not looking to sell automobiles and spending ridiculous amounts of money. Maybe if there is a break up f1 will return to the great days when it was not dominated by the manufacturers but by racing teams constructors. And the drivers were kewl dudes without pretention that would mix with the fans.

Why not have drivers such as Pantano, Bruno, di Grassi and Davidson - maybe even Bourdais and Sato and Paffett who will establish themselves in f1 and be given a chance to race?

And if Monte Carlo will only go where Ferrari is, then let them. New tracks will be established and a new f1 - back to the future - will flourish.

I support Bernie. I always have and I will not change now.

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Well you are DEVOTEd, but Bernie ain't no SAINT!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Personally, while I do not want to see a break up - I support the FIA / FOA and not FOTA at all.

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I see you managed to find this forum too after they laughed you out on the autosport forum.

I see that the FOTA-sceptics have again played that "car manufacturers" card, their uncertainty of racing and "lack of racing soul".

Well, for me it's in a way quite clear that in Bernie's model of F1 it's not surprising the future of car manufacturers is unclear, because they get too little revenue. It is said that Toyota, Renault and maybe BMW would leave F1 very soon - and yes, I agree, they would leave current F1 for sure. But it's a different story with that breakaway series and it seems manufacturers are really commited to it, because the series becomes finacially more viable and if the losses of teams are smaller (making money of running a series vs spending on their team) or even if the series is profitable, car manufactures don't have such a big reason to leave, if any at all. Honda's situation was rather bad - they had no sponsorship, so that the car company had to pay all expenditures. Plus their WCC positions were so poor they didn't get much money from there either, so the losses were too big to really swallow for the parent company. I don't think we have such a radical case among current participants.

Several car manufacturers have hinted that they won't join F1 as long as Max is at helm. I wouldn't rule out we would have even more 'big' names in the FOTA-led series in the future.

Looks like Max did try to bite way more than his prosthesis allows for:

[quote= Flavio Briatore @ autospsort.com]"We have tried to compromise, we have opened the door, we have tried everything," he said. "We have had the door closed in our face. The agreement has not been done by FOTA]

Now its not F1 teams he'll be fighting but the manufacturers themselves. He managed to get himself noticed by some of the most powerful people around, and not in a positive way at all.


Looks like he's managed to make lots of personal enemies with is stupid comments:

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Originally Posted by "Flavio Briatore @ autospsort.com":26249ayw

"Max is going personal all the time," said Briatore. "I'm too much of a gentleman to go personal. If he wants to go personal, I have a lot to say about Max. I know. He needs to stop insulting people."

"If he is talking about lunatics and stuff like that, he needs to watch himself, to just do the best job possible for him, the teams and not go personal, insulting me, the people from FOTA, the people from ACEA.

"It's enough. If there is somebody who needs to be very quiet in their personal life, it's him because for sure he is not a [good] example, to be president with what he has in his personal life.

"He needs to stop making it personal all the time."

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And a little allusion at Max not having anything in hand:

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Originally Posted by Flavio Briatore @ autosport.com

"I see myself exactly like I am. I am in FOTA. I believe in FOTA - I was one of the first to believe in FOTA," he said. "I believe FOTA is strong, we want a championship with the best teams in the world, the best drivers in the world, and want the people in F1 who have the knowledge of being in F1, not GP3 or GP4.

"We want real teams, not empty boxes. We are very curious because Friday was the deadline to announce the teams for the FIA 2010 championship.

"It was very hard for us to really be ready for Friday. This was supposed to be the day for the list of the new teams in Formula 1. I don't see this list. I am very curious to see this list."

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[/quote:26249ayw]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76477

not sure if its been mentioned, but i read on "the mole" on the BBC site that on wednesday the teams had as good as agreed with the FIA the rules for next year and were all set to drop the conditions, agreeing to stay til at least 2012, only Max changed the paperwork sent to the teams to read 2015 instead - the teams took this as the last straw and changed their minds, hence the announcement on Thursday - if this is true than Moseley is a bigger prick than i thought

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Originally Posted by Robinho

not sure if its been mentioned, but i read on "the mole" on the BBC site that on wednesday the teams had as good as agreed with the FIA the rules for next year and were all set to drop the conditions, agreeing to stay til at least 2012, only Max changed the paperwork sent to the teams to read 2015 instead - the teams took this as the last straw and changed their minds, hence the announcement on Thursday - if this is true than Moseley is a bigger prick than i thought

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Hm. I am a bit doubtful it's true and that teams would have agreed to stay so easily. After all their goal is to get rid of Max in the process, not to help to stay him until 2012 or whenever.

I personally find it quite interesting that in winter Jean Todt left Ferrari (may it be suggested that his goal is to become a FIA president after that?) and now Luca di Montezemolo is rather actively working against Max. Hoping that the collapse of F1 will force Max to retire too?

But while FOTA has made its goals clear (breakaway), then I'm wondering, what will be Mosley's further actions. Will he try to sue the teams as long as possible until 2010 to somehow bind them with F1?

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Originally Posted by jens

But while FOTA has made its goals clear (breakaway), then I'm wondering, what will be Mosley's further actions. Will he try to sue the teams as long as possible until 2010 to somehow bind them with F1?

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He can sue them as long as he wants, because they will not have to commit to anything as long as there is no court decision, and anyway no court in the world can force them to take part in the series if they don't want to.

It's a lose lose situation for Max.